Water Heater failed after installing OWB plate heat exchanger

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colson04

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This is an interesting situation as I'm not sure if it's pure coincidence or if the events are related.

Note: We have NOT fired up our OWB yet, still too warm outside.

September 12th: Installed Ridgewood 6000 OWB and all plumbing and heat exchangers related to it. When installing plate heat exchanger for DHW, we had to drain down the propane water heater. Opened valve at bottom and drained into sump, cracked open Temp and Pressure valve to let air in so it would drain faster. Finished install, filled water heater, everything seemed fine until we noticed that the Temp and Pressure Relief valve was leaking and wouldn't seal back up. Fiddled with it for 2-3 minutes, and assumed it was gummed up since it was the original and was 6 years old. Had wife pick up new one on her way back from work and installed it when she got home. Old one was loaded with gunk when I removed it, made sense that it needed to be replaced. New one in, filled water heater and no more leak. Good deal.

Later that night, my wife asked what was up with the hot water in the house? When you turned the hot water on at any sink in the house, it came out faster than it ever had and then within 30-60 seconds the flow slowed down. I didn't put too much thought into then. It was late, I was tired.

September 15th: I go down to my basement for something and notice a large puddle of water underneath my hot water heater. First instinct is to check the new plumbing connections above hot water heater where the plate exchanger was installed. No leaks, no drips, no signs of water. WTH? :confused: After a couple hours of fiddling around with it, it's determined that the new Temp and Pressure Relief valve had opened and released some water, and then had closed back up. I fiddle with it some more and never got it to relieve again.

9/16: Wake up and go to basement just to check - no water on floor. Later that afternoon after the wife had been cleaning and using hot water I go down there and sure enough, water on the floor again. Go get another new Temp and Pressure Relief valve and swap valves again. Drained tank, swap valves, fill tank, fire heater back up. About 30 minutes later the new valve releases. It was suggested that the water heater temp setting is set too high, but the adjuster valve is seized and can't be turned down. I have checked and the water coming out of our faucet is only 130deg F, which shouldn't be too hot for a water heater at all.

Currently, T&P relief valve cracks open once a day, and I plan on replacing water heater when I get home next week. So, that said, I'm not sure if something we installed screwed up my water heater, or if it was doomed before and faulty T&P Relief valve kept us from noticing there was a problem sooner.
 
T&P relief valve cracks open once a day

That's how mine works normally, cold water in it heats up expands then reliefs out of the valve down the drain.
Is it a mains pressure or a low pressure type system?
 
I have a well with an 18 month old bladder tank. Pressure switch turns well on at 40psi and off at 60psi (makes for a wonderful shower). No check valves anywhere in system.

Prior to installing OWB and related equipment, the Temp and Pressure Relief valve had never opened and dumped water on the floor.

When we did the install, we put a plate heat exchanger in the cold water supply so it would pre-heat the water going into the water heater. Also, we installed a blending valve to mix the pre-heated hot water w/cold water so that we wouldn't burn ourselves from overheating the water through the plate heat exchanger. Both of these are now installed on the cold water supply side of the hot water heater, nothing changed on the hot water out side.


After reading the link that TimbrJackrussel posted, I'm beginning to wonder if the new setup on the cold water side is keeping the water from expanding backwards into the bladder tank when being heated. I never had this problem before I installed this stuff, but I also never tested the Temp & Pressure Relief valve before then either.
 
I think your new mixing valve should be on the hot-out side of the hot water tank, not the cold-in side. You want to mix the water coming out of the heater down to useable temps. Sounds like something in that installation isolated the hot water tank from the expansion tank, and it has no expansion space available.
 
I've never seen a hit water heater pop off once a day. Not saying some don't, but I've never seen it. NSMaple is right, mixing valve should be after hot water heater. You're cooling the water before it sits in tank. It will cool more sitting there. I have no idea how a mixing valve works, but I'm with woodman666. Something is making it so pressure is not able to shove on bladder first. Could it be the mixing valve, due to the fact its on the opposite side as it should be?
 
Aren't the newer HW heaters supposed to have an expansion tank installed with them?

I know I had to put one on mine when I replaced it a few years ago.

However our HW supply line comes directly from the OWB, no exchanger plates.
 
MIXING VALVE IS IN THE WRONG PLACE. Also you may have got crap on the temp sensor tube making it slow to read temps. Mixing valves have a built in check valve so no place for press to go.
 
Aren't the newer HW heaters supposed to have an expansion tank installed with them?

My hot water heater is a 2006 model Bradford White power vent. I don't know if it has an internal expansion tank or not, but until I fiddled with the plumbing during the install, I never had any issues with the unit.

I'm planning on re-doing the mixing valve this weekend to put it on the hot water out side of the hot water heater. Hopefully this is my issue and moving the valve will save me from having to buy an $800 water heater (propane power vent heaters are not cheap :frown:)
 
While re-plumbing I would also seriously consider adding a circulator to the DHW side of the exchanger so you can heat up your entire hot water heater with it. By only pre-heating the DHW you are losing a lot of the potential of the exchanger, and stand-by losses will still be costing you gas.

Something like a B&G Ecocirc.

Not sure how you're controlling flow through the supply side of the exchanger though - or does it just flow all the time whenever the boiler is running? If it does you might be able to get some convection flow through the DHW side of the exchanger if you plumb & mount it just right.

Since you haven't fired the boiler yet though, might as well see how it works the way it is first - just lots of other possibilities.
 
I wouldn't worry about a circulator. My plate exchanger is on cold water inlet side of hot water heater, and it comes out plenty hot. I've had the propane shut off since last January and have never lacked for hot water.
 
What are you guys running for DHW exchangers anyway? And has anyone actually measured all their in/out temps?

I've got a sidearm but want to put in a plate - thinking a 5x12, 20 plate. I'm looking to tighten up my approach temps & get my DHW-out as close as I can to supply-in, not sure a 10 plate would be good if I can get a 20 for not a whole lot more.

(Sorry for the thread derail - I think we got the original problem figured out.)
 
NSMaple1.

I just have a small cheap 10 plate, no circulating pump, and same as speed, there is no problem, i have the gas on pilot. (Older style water heater with out electronic ignition).

The water in the tank stay hot for days even with no use, but with normal use the water is always hot and virtually unlimited.

Temps In ~55 ish, well ground water.
Temps out of plate, Depends on flow of water of course, but with a shower and a faucet going ~ 130, then up and down a little bit from there depending on the actual boiler temp, flow rate etc.

I also have the mixing valve, I would not run the system without it.

Colson04 - Once you get thing working you are going to love the plate setup, unlimited water, and by using the tank you have a 40 or 50 gallon buffering tank so no changes in temps.
 
Aren't the newer HW heaters supposed to have an expansion tank installed with them?

I know I had to put one on mine when I replaced it a few years ago.

However our HW supply line comes directly from the OWB, no exchanger plates.

Yes, especially on a central water system, check valves are built into the water meter, but it is a good ideer to have one anyway, most all new HWH's have ball checks on the inlet and outlet.
 
I had a very similar situation when i installed my sidearm for my hot water off the OWB. In the end it was the check valve that I installed on my cold water line input line. i removed the check valve and everything was normal.
 
What are you guys running for DHW exchangers anyway? And has anyone actually measured all their in/out temps?

I've got a sidearm but want to put in a plate - thinking a 5x12, 20 plate. I'm looking to tighten up my approach temps & get my DHW-out as close as I can to supply-in, not sure a 10 plate would be good if I can get a 20 for not a whole lot more.

(Sorry for the thread derail - I think we got the original problem figured out.)

Derailed thread? That has never happened on this site, has it? Lol.

I have a 4"x10" 10 plate exchanger, but I'm thinking of going to 20 plate. I have no lack of hot water, but I learned that the 20 will have less restriction and flow more gallons easier on boiler side. If I remember correctly, the 10 plate is adding head pressure equal to 100' more pipe in comparison to the 20 plate.

Upsnake, I also have the 55ish° well water. Like you mentioned, the tank acts as a buffering/tempering area to control temp spikes.

Have you tried turning your pilot off? I let mine burn, and watched the propane needle close. Ended up turning it off due to the fact I never heard it fire, and it actually burned a substantial amount of gas.
 
I have not tried turning the pilot off. I prob should turn it off though. I occasionally will turn the heater on, just to make sure everything is still all working. :)
 
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