We have to neutralize the abuse of multiple bids / free bids

[M.D. Vaden]

Any ideas ??

I've been getting irritated about the free bid thing the last year.

First, I state in ads for people to "request" a free estimate. My bids are usually free, but I don't promise them to be free.

Also, when people ask if a bid can be free, I say yes, but tell them I'll charge $80 if the following happens:

a. they show my bid to another company bidding - that makes my bid an informational tool, and I charge for consulting.

I don't bid if they are "thinking" about doing the work. They must know for a fact it will be done.

Before bidding I ask if the people have criteria - certified bidding against certified. I try to get them to agree that they will require equal minimum standards. For example, no matter how experienced the estimator is, the bid will specify that the work will have a person with 5 years experience on the job site.

There is nothing wrong with multiple estimates, but I believe that in 10 years or less, the tree and landscape industry must develop a "device" that causes consumers to start paying for every estimate they get.

 

[Stumper]

Mario, My viewpoint is totally different. Charging for a consult? Fair. Charging for bidding-Uh.... My rates are supposed to accomodate the necessary time and effort that goes into securing work. I'm not paying remodelers to come tell me what they would charge to retile my floor. If they want the job they can tell me what it will cost so that I can make an imformed decision.

 

[Koa Man]

I have heard of some companies who charge a token fee for pruning bids. Removal bids are free. I agree that if everyone charged even $10 to cover fuel costs, the amount of people calling 15 different ones to get the lowest possible price would go down considerably. That is one of the reasons I will be changing my business number to a residential one. Then I won't have the free small print listing in the YP and won't be bothered by price shoppers. I have been fortunate enough to have gotten loyal and happy customers over the years who only call me and tell whoever they hear needs tree work to call me. I almost never am bidding against other companies. It did take me about 15 years to get to the point where just my present customer base will keep me booked 6 weeks out.

 

[kevintree]

For new customers we charge a $10.00 consulation fee.
Does great job weeding out shoppers

Kevin

 

[M.D. Vaden]

I've started to get more calls out of the rural area lately too.

One lady called 3 companies for estimates.

I took it only because I realized this lady's understanding is in the dark about where she is headed, PLUS, I'm about the closest company to her.

What I did, I bid $180 for a job that was a cut-n-leave the debris job of about 75 minutes, and I wrote on the bid that the work would be done by myself as Certified with 20 years experience.

I knew the best would be a price match, but unlikely a credential match.

Got the job.

Good thing not all jobs are so small with that travel.

 

[NeTree]

I have to agree with Mario on this one.

I'm getting a little sick of the shoppers, too. I already distinguish between a "free estimate" and a "consultation".

 

[OutOnaLimb]

Window shoppers are a pain in the butt. Most of the time I do sub contract work on a percentage and there has been more than a few times that I have showed up, looked at the job and said, "No way Jose" I cant spend all day on this tree for $50.00 I have had some of the customers tell me that they had bids for half the price that I turned down and the guy that I sub for said that he had to low ball the job just to get it. Some times its better to just walk away.

Kenn

 

[tinman44]

i walked away from a job the other day customer stated they had estimate to take down for 250. this tree was close to everything and been dead for years so i just said sorry we dont have a bucket truck.

 

[bottlefed89]

The estimates kill me, but I REALLY hate people trying to haggle with me. I did some work at a guys house today, and his neighbor came and asked if I could take out a 15-20' bradford pear that had broke from the ice we had. I said sure, I told him $80. We talked for a minute and he said well....I'll let you do it, but how about $50. I just said no thanks, but call me if you change your mind. That just seems rude to me.

 

[Can-Do-It]

I've been looking over the thread and have changed my mind about how to bid jobs several times in the past year.

But bidding jobs and making money at it requires that you take in to account every thing that could go wrong and at some point will. And when that happens the customer is going to look toward you for payment. I carry 1- million dollar liability policy with a $500 deductible. When biding I take into account the $500 deductible that I would have to pay if I have to use my insurance. And I explain to the customer about the deductible if they think that the prices are high. An example would be ... a tree next to a house with limbs hanging over the house. Not a big tree - 50' - liability issue. Price 1000.00. Same tree in middle of yard 800.00. Why not half the price? Because you still have a degree of liability regardless of how simple you think it is. The home owner is paying you for your knowledge or he or she would be doing it them selfs.

The bottom line .... charge more, You and the customer are worth.

 

[MasterBlaster]

The estimates kill me, but I REALLY hate people trying to haggle with me. I did some work at a guys house today, and his neighbor came and asked if I could take out a 15-20' bradford pear that had broke from the ice we had. I said sure, I told him $80. We talked for a minute and he said well....I'll let you do it, but how about $50. I just said no thanks, but call me if you change your mind. That just seems rude to me.

It IS rude, and I don't tolerate it. I think long and hard about the quote I give, and when I come up with a figure it's already as low as I'm gonna go. I might work with them on an installment plan to help them pay it, but I never back down on my price.

 

[alanarbor]

We charge a $65 fee for estimates, unless they are an existing client, or are referred by one. We'll waive it if they are responding to a targeted advertisement.

That at least ensures that they are serious about doing work. I can usually wiggle 10-15% if I have to in order to land a job, but I ???? sure won't cut my own throat. The key is to make confirmation calls.

Just simply making a call to say you'll be there and at what time, can win you the job over someone who may or may not show up for the bid. I'll ask right out if they are making their descision on the lowest price, and if they are, I'll tell them I will DEFINATELY not be the cheapest, and does it make sense for me to even come out. 5 mins on the phone can save you an hour spent with someone who won't buy from you.

 

[Stumper]

It IS rude, and I don't tolerate it. I think long and hard about the quote I give, and when I come up with a figure it's already as low as I'm gonna go. I might work with them on an installment plan to help them pay it, but I never back down on my price.

How I deal with this depends upon the Job, the attitude I sense from the customer and my own mood. Generally speaking-If someone has various things to be done and I total everything up to a sum like $535 and the customer asks "Would you take care of everything for an even $500?" ,the answer is "yes". If we have a tree to remove that I bid at, suppose, $585 and the same $500 question is asked the answer is -"Yes, If we don't do the final raking." If something like the $80 bid that was mentioned by bottlefed gets that "Will you come down to $50?" I usually say "no" or smile and say "How about $100-that $80 was kinda low." -Then we can have a friendly converstion about $80 while I'm there or $100 if they call back later. In all cases-when people ask if my prices are negotiable I smile and say "Sure, I'll accept more!" That sets the stage for working out an arrangement for all the work at full price-part at reduced price-working the job in stages or whatever.-It is a very rare person that doesn't smile back when I say that and say something like-"I understand.You have to make a living too."


Oh, and BTW, the whole "senior citizen discount" concept is patently unfair if you think about it. When elderly customers ask I say "No, I try to make my prices fair for everyone." Most respect that-the ones that don't are too dumb or greedy for me to want to work for them anyway.

 

[spacemule]

It IS rude, and I don't tolerate it. I think long and hard about the quote I give, and when I come up with a figure it's already as low as I'm gonna go. I might work with them on an installment plan to help them pay it, but I never back down on my price.

Negotiating price is standard business procedure. How is that rude? If you don't want to come down on price, all you have to do is say so. I make a practice of not dealing with folks who have things marked as "firm" or "not negotiable." I'll pay for work, but I don't like dealing with folks who get offended from standard business negotiations. That's highly unprofessional. While I agree that haggling over an $80 job is silly, it is not rude

 

[Koa Man]

I know from experience that certain ethnic groups, like the older Chinese and Koreans, like to haggle on prices. I don't mind that, it is part of their culture (ever visited Hong Kong or even Tijuana?). I just know if I quote $535, they are going to say $450 but will settle for $500. So if my bid is $535, I'll quote like $585 and when they say $500, I'll try to get $550. Sometimes I'll get the extra $15, sometimes I may lose $10 and settle for $525.00. Just quote a little higher and beat them at their own game. I find it kind of fun, actually.

 

[ROLLACOSTA]

I have to agree with Mario on this one.

I'm getting a little sick of the shoppers, too. I already distinguish between a "free estimate" and a "consultation".

In which catogory would you put a customer who asks for 'your' proffesional 'advice' regarding work they may or in some cases may not need,do you class this as a consultation or a free esitimate ??.imo giving proffesional advice [free estimates] and consulting can often be a grey area

 

[MasterBlaster]

Negotiating price is standard business procedure. How is that rude?

So when you go check out at Wal Mart, do you haggle about the total? Or how about the mechanic? Or your dentist? :Eye:

I don't believe it's SOP. Buying a car, a house, or something along that line it's expected, but not when you are providing a service like treework. WTF does the customer know about how much a job should cost? Most try to haggle you down, just as a matter of course... even when you give them a good price. Frig that.

 

[spacemule]

So when you go check out at Wal Mart, do you haggle about the total? Or how about the mechanic? Or your dentist? :Eye:

:

No to Wal-Mart, yes to mechanic, yes to dentist. No one has to know what something should cost to be able to make an offer. That's the way business works. Seller makes offer, buyer makes counter-offer, seller either accepts, rejects, or makes another counter-offer. Why do you think it's ok to negoitate for cars or houses, but not on high-dollar tree work? And you don't have to negotiate if you don't want to. The key is to remain calm and repspectful. I'll go ahead and pay most of the time if the seller respectfully tells me they can't come down on their price. I won't do business with someone who gets offended at a business proposition. You're selling a service. You're not doing the cusomer any favors by granting them the honor of doing business with you. Likewise, the customer isn't doing you any favors by utilizing your services. It's a two-way street. It's business. Getting offended, as I've said, is petty and unprofessional.

 

[bottlefed89]

Exactly, I don't think haggling is SOR in a service business. Especially on something cheap. I don't go to the dentist and try to talk him down... Oh, and the guy did call back today, and I told him $90 now because I am no longer working in the neighborhood. He said ok, go ahead. Best thing is, I'll have to make 2 cuts, then cut the stump low, and chip away. Job won't really take me too long, maybe 15-20 minutes, so not too bad.

 

[spacemule]

but I REALLY hate people trying to haggle with me. [...] Exactly, I don't think haggling is SOR in a service business. Especially on something cheap. I don't go to the dentist and try to talk him down... Oh, and the guy did call back today, and I told him $90 now because I am no longer working in the neighborhood. He said ok, go ahead. Best thing is, I'll have to make 2 cuts, then cut the stump low, and chip away. Job won't really take me too long, maybe 15-20 minutes, so not too bad.

So, you hate the customer (even though you got the job at your bid price). You did, however, reach a deal acceptable to both of you. Really now, why did you get upset? Why is it so offensive to you all for a guy to want to get the most for his money? What gets me is those of you who act as if you're punishing the customer by turning them down huffily. In reality, if you're that upset over negotiating a job, you're doing them a favor by walking away.