Weldability of old Jonsered magnesium

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dynodave

equal opportunity gearhead
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A friend, ED, has a Jonsered 111S that by an unfortunate incident got a 3/8"-1/2" hole in the fuel tank. The saw is now partially stripped down for repair OR to be butchered into a go cart engine. :bang: Al the welder has done magnesium welding before but I can't tell him what the "alloy" of the saw is. Any saw guys have any experience to share in this area and know what the alloy is? I'd hate to see this thing get butchered over what seems like a fairly doable repair. :msp_thumbup:
The other option is to find a used but cheap tank.

thanks
 
Interesting, it must depend on the alloy ie. the amount of magnesium in it. Maybe if you drilled a couple of shallow (blind) holes and torched the turnings to see if they light or melt. I still have memories of the HMS Sheffield, it must have had a high mag content.
 
I would suspect is is vary high % magnesium with possible traces of manganese, aluminum, copper, zinc and silicon, and as such would probably burn. I'd be curious to know if it a thixomolded type material. Low zinc seems more recommended to reduce residual cracking.
 
Saw some strips from a similar crankcase to use as a fill metal.
 
The handle on my Jonsereds 80 had been welded quite a bit. But that was before It was mine, so yes it can be done.
 
For a repair job it's not absolutely necessary to match the alloy. Any filler rod with a high magnesium content will work.

I've welding in holes over an inch from mag rot on an old Pioneer before. Hold fuel just fine.
 
For a repair job it's not absolutely necessary to match the alloy. Any filler rod with a high magnesium content will work.

I've welding in holes over an inch from mag rot on an old Pioneer before. Hold fuel just fine.

Dead on with this answer.
Just one very serious warning on this topic. You are proposing to weld a fuel tank, I have no problem witht that as long as you make sure that there are no traces of fuel or fumes.
The way I have always done fuel tank repairs, (on everything from chainsaws to race cars) is to steam clean them so that the tank itself gets hot and then weld them while warm. The reason for this is to drive out the vapours that will be produced when you start welding BEFORE you start welding.
True story - a co worker ran out of diesel for the steam cleaner so only pressure washed a boat fuel tank with cold water, he then drained it and proceeded to tack weld the two new fittings that he had to fit. On the fourth tack he performed there must have been sufficient vapour in the tank, which ignited and he was blown off his feet by the blast and the tank, constructed from folded 3mm aluminium was transformed from a cube shape to an almost perfectly flat sheet in about 1/100th of a second.
Don't let this be you, or your Jonsereds tank!
You may not have access to a steam cleaner but for a small tank like this, boiling hot water with a bit of detergent poured in the tank would probably suffice. If when you drain the water from the tank tank you can still smell fumes do it again until you can no longer smell fumes.

Drain it, clean it with hot water, weld it while still warm, leak test it - sit back and enjoy a beer.
 
reply

Dead on with this answer.
Just one very serious warning on this topic. You are proposing to weld a fuel tank, I have no problem witht that as long as you make sure that there are no traces of fuel or fumes.
The way I have always done fuel tank repairs, (on everything from chainsaws to race cars) is to steam clean them so that the tank itself gets hot and then weld them while warm. The reason for this is to drive out the vapours that will be produced when you start welding BEFORE you start welding.
True story - a co worker ran out of diesel for the steam cleaner so only pressure washed a boat fuel tank with cold water, he then drained it and proceeded to tack weld the two new fittings that he had to fit. On the fourth tack he performed there must have been sufficient vapour in the tank, which ignited and he was blown off his feet by the blast and the tank, constructed from folded 3mm aluminium was transformed from a cube shape to an almost perfectly flat sheet in about 1/100th of a second.
Don't let this be you, or your Jonsereds tank!
You may not have access to a steam cleaner but for a small tank like this, boiling hot water with a bit of detergent poured in the tank would probably suffice. If when you drain the water from the tank tank you can still smell fumes do it again until you can no longer smell fumes.

Drain it, clean it with hot water, weld it while still warm, leak test it - sit back and enjoy a beer.
i've went the easy route, marine tex/slpash zone
 
Dead on with this answer.
Just one very serious warning on this topic. You are proposing to weld a fuel tank, I have no problem witht that as long as you make sure that there are no traces of fuel or fumes.
The way I have always done fuel tank repairs, (on everything from chainsaws to race cars) is to steam clean them so that the tank itself gets hot and then weld them while warm. The reason for this is to drive out the vapours that will be produced when you start welding BEFORE you start welding.
True story - a co worker ran out of diesel for the steam cleaner so only pressure washed a boat fuel tank with cold water, he then drained it and proceeded to tack weld the two new fittings that he had to fit. On the fourth tack he performed there must have been sufficient vapour in the tank, which ignited and he was blown off his feet by the blast and the tank, constructed from folded 3mm aluminium was transformed from a cube shape to an almost perfectly flat sheet in about 1/100th of a second.
Don't let this be you, or your Jonsereds tank!
You may not have access to a steam cleaner but for a small tank like this, boiling hot water with a bit of detergent poured in the tank would probably suffice. If when you drain the water from the tank tank you can still smell fumes do it again until you can no longer smell fumes.

Drain it, clean it with hot water, weld it while still warm, leak test it - sit back and enjoy a beer.

What kind of welder do you use and what kind of rod?
 
What kind of welder do you use and what kind of rod?
All tank repairs I do are using a TIG welder, (ACHF current) and the filler rod is matched to the base material, ie for aluminium tanks I would use 5356 filler material and for magnesium I use a high magnesium alloy filler wire, (the packet is so old that I cannot even see the grade markings), with this I have successfully repaired crankcases, tanks and other parts.
The biggest issue with magnesium welding is that it readily soaks up oil and other contaminants, leading to porosity and cleaning these out can be a challenge sometimes. Once clean magnesuim welds quite readily. Typically you need less amperage for magnesuim than for aluminium in the same thickness and to keep your arc really close.
The worst problems I have had to overcome were almost always related to either a quick repair made with some type of epoxy that I had to remove before welding or a crack that was allowed to become filled with sawdust/oil/crud that impregnated the material.
 
I always put them through true jet wash and then bead blast them inside and out and then through the jet wash again. Ive said it before on this site but IMO good welding is 90% cleaning. When welding aluminum or magnesium I always preheat because it helps you keep you welds tight.
 
111S revived?

I want to thank those who replied and will see if the mag filler rod I have found at work seems suitable, Hopefully high magnesium and low zinc. I hated to see this saw get chopped up for what seemed a not fatal flaw. I would prefer metal repair over plastic (JB weld). I will hopefully be (not necessarily the owner but) the caretaker of this saw for now. I want to see if this saw at 110cc is a good worker compared to the "hot rodded?" husky 298XP which I also got from Ed.
Funny side Story:
Ed got this Husky 289 XP...Never got it started again since the day he bought it... sat for 10+ years.
It definiitely took a rethink on how I pull the string, but I got it screaming in 3 pulls. I now look and the chisel chain is dull as can be... but it still made saw dust and noise so I smiled:laugh:
Where is that file....
Oh well back to welding magnesium.:rock:
 
I always put them through true jet wash and then bead blast them inside and out and then through the jet wash again. Ive said it before on this site but IMO good welding is 90% cleaning. When welding aluminum or magnesium I always preheat because it helps you keep you welds tight.

Thanks srcarr52
+1 on that.
No gas in it for many years...after the tank was split...
Got a blast cabinet.,,walnut shell or bead
Got an oven...
I'm starting to feel like it might work out OK.:blob2:

Dave
 
If you want to weld this thing you need a tig welder set up as if doing aluminum. Then the area needs to be cleaned and cleaned and cleaned. Like what was mentioned before the magnesium is porous and will soak up oil and will make it hard to form a puddle. Use
AZ101 magnesium rod. Also just like aluminum do not use a steel brush it must be stainless to keep down contaminants. Also preheating is good.
 
Yes, but sawfun9 chimed in with this- "The handle on my Jonsereds 80 had been welded quite a bit. But that was before It was mine, so yes it can be done."

LOL, I was assuming he meant the rear handle, since it was mentioned at all - but maybe not! ;)
 

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