What are the pros/cons of square grind chain?

[bootboy]

So what do you call it when you have some square ground, it gets dull, and you have to resharpen round? I mean besides being lame and all, will the chain still work or is it ruined? Reason I am asking is, I have two long ones that go with my 36 inch bar, never used them yet, and most of my big wood here is either dead and down, standing dead, or big shagbark which comes fresh real dirty.

Both round and square ground are made from the same cutter blanks by their respective manufacturers, just sharpened differently, that's all.

 

[gunnusmc03]

So what do you call it when you have some square ground, it gets dull, and you have to resharpen round? I mean besides being lame and all, will the chain still work or is it ruined? Reason I am asking is, I have two long ones that go with my 36 inch bar, never used them yet, and most of my big wood here is either dead and down, standing dead, or big shagbark which comes fresh real dirty.

If you convert it to round it just becomes your standard round ground chisel chain. It will work fine round too.

 

[hillwilliam]

Iv run many a chain all day and part of the next before its time to swap out. They are just so much more efficient. Even when dull, if you have the right angles its still gonna cut..

I totally agree with this, though I don't have much scientific evidence to back it. It seems that, even when top plates and side plates are not especially sharp, and all the other parameters are as close to ideal as you can get them, a chisel filed/ ground chain will cut pretty well. The geometry makes it very efficient at severing wood fibers.

Same experience for me: I'll often finish a day with the chain still cutting fine, but when I look at it, I can see the 'shine' of dull edges. And I have no tolerance for cutting with a dull chain. If I touch dirt or rock (I live in the Rockies now), out comes the chisel file.

Again, not scientific but when I went to chisel filing 30+ years ago, my first impression was that it cut faster and stayed sharp longer. Maybe the above explains it. Anyway, I've never gone back to round for comparison.

There has been some good info. from obviously experienced guys on this thread. I liked the mention of a 'tuned' chain - I'm glad not to be the only one using that term. Sharp is one thing; sharp and tuned is another. I'll sharpen a chain in the woods if I need to, but at home they get tuned by the fussy old man who sleeps with my wife.

 

[hillwilliam]

I have a question, though: It's often said that chisel-ground cutters are less durable. Why? When I look at a round-filed chisel cutter, it's hollow ground. It isn't difficult to get it plenty sharp but, in my mind, it's more fragile than the wedge- or chisel (triangular)- shaped edge of my chisel-filed chains.

As a separate issue, when you rock a round-filed chain, you will likely peen a chunk of the hook away on each cutter. A little less damage with chisel-filed, since the top plate is supported by the side plate, and there was no hook in the first place. Out comes the file for a few minutes, but it's no big deal.

I need to have this explained to me. If someone understands this better than I do, I'm eager to learn.

 

[zogger]

Well..I know I am gonna dull those chains when I use them, so someone give me a file recommendation brand/source please. I don't think either the stihl or husky dealer in town have those chisel chain files, just round and generic flat for the depth gauges.

I might as well learn to use and file them.

 

[Hedgerow]

I have a question, though: It's often said that chisel-ground cutters are less durable. Why? When I look at a round-filed chisel cutter, it's hollow ground. It isn't difficult to get it plenty sharp but, in my mind, it's more fragile than the wedge- or chisel (triangular)- shaped edge of my chisel-filed chains.

As a separate issue, when you rock a round-filed chain, you will likely peen a chunk of the hook away on each cutter. A little less damage with chisel-filed, since the top plate is supported by the side plate, and there was no hook in the first place. Out comes the file for a few minutes, but it's no big deal.

I need to have this explained to me. If someone understands this better than I do, I'm eager to learn.

I have not found the round filed chisel cutters to be any more durable than a properly angled, square work chain cutter...
That point is quite fragile...
Your theory is sound...
Semi-chisel is a whole other story... It's hand's down, the most tolerant of abuse...

 

[Hedgerow]

Well..I know I am gonna dull those chains when I use them, so someone give me a file recommendation brand/source please. I don't think either the stihl or husky dealer in town have those chisel chain files, just round and generic flat for the depth gauges.

I might as well learn to use and file them.

Save Edge double bevel files...
Bailey's has them I think..

 

[Longwood]

Just my thoughts after running sq grd for several yrs.

Pros : It cuts noticeably faster and that makes it worth it for me.
Throws awesome sq cut chips that get ankle deep fast from a big saw.
When your friends challenge you to a backyard saw competion you got a sweet advantage with sq grd.
You can make chains the factory doesn't offer, example: sq grind a Oregron LP or LPX
and have a low vibe sq. grd. , for whatever thats worth.
Buy whatever is cheapest and make it sq. grd.,

Cons: Oregon Sq. grd is the only new sq. grd I've bought and its not very sharp from the factory.
My Silvey Pro Sharpe sq grinder wasn't cheap, but I really like it and have no regrets.
Keep a box of Band aids near the grinder, the sharpened sq grd is like a razor and will cut you and you won't even feel it.
I hate running a round grd chain now, sq has spoiled me.
When I get a deal on round ground chain I run it once then it goes the the sq grinder.


Hope this helps,

 

[SilverKing]

Just my thoughts after running sq grd for several yrs.

Pros : It cuts noticeably faster and that makes it worth it for me.
Throws awesome sq cut chips that get ankle deep fast from a big saw.
When your friends challenge you to a backyard saw competion you got a sweet advantage with sq grd.
You can make chains the factory doesn't offer, example: sq grind a Oregron LP or LPX
and have a low vibe sq. grd. , for whatever thats worth.
Buy whatever is cheapest and make it sq. grd.,

Cons: Oregon Sq. grd is the only new sq. grd I've bought and its not very sharp from the factory.
My Silvey Pro Sharpe sq grinder wasn't cheap, but I really like it and have no regrets.
Keep a box of Band aids near the grinder, the sharpened sq grd is like a razor and will cut you and you won't even feel it.
I hate running a round grd chain now, sq has spoiled me.
When I get a deal on round ground chain I run it once then it goes the the sq grinder.


Hope this helps,

do you see much difference in factory square grind versus round that you made square?I bought a square grind but Im leary of using it until the trees thaw out here.Im having trouble keeping semi chisel sharp in these frozen maples and white oaks.

 

[Longwood]

do you see much difference in factory square grind versus round that you made square?I bought a square grind but Im leary of using it until the trees thaw out here.Im having trouble keeping semi chisel sharp in these frozen maples and white oaks.

I haven't noticed a difference after I grind them, doesn't seem to matter what I start with, that's why I buy whatever is cheapest. I won't waste my time putting a factory Oregon Sq Grd on before sharpening it, factory round grd will out cut it. I like a chain with used up teeth on its final sharpening with the gullets round filed out and the rakers set at .030 , that makes for good cuttin chain. I haven't tryed sq grd in frozen wood so I don't know how it would last. You made me curious, next cold snap we have I'm going to try it in frozen hard wood.

 

[DonnerParty]

I've never run square ground before. I've never even seen it in a local shop until just this week. My dealer got two loops of 28" Stihl full skip. I'm tempted to try one. Biggest downside seems to be the cost of files. $10 each! A three-pack of round files runs $5. What say ye' square ground crew? Seems all of you think it's worth that cost. How are your files holding up compared to round files?

 

[Hedgerow]

I've never run square ground before. I've never even seen it in a local shop until just this week. My dealer got two loops of 28" Stihl full skip. I'm tempted to try one. Biggest downside seems to be the cost of files. $10 each! A three-pack of round files runs $5. What say ye' square ground crew? Seems all of you think it's worth that cost. How are your files holding up compared to round files?

1 file will last about 1 chain..
Give or take...

 

[paccity]

 

[hillwilliam]

Well..I know I am gonna dull those chains when I use them, so someone give me a file recommendation brand/source please. I don't think either the stihl or husky dealer in town have those chisel chain files, just round and generic flat for the depth gauges.

I might as well learn to use and file them.

Good for you! I like that you're gonna just jump right into it.

There are lots of old threads on chisel filing, usually called 'square filing'. Some are called 'hand filing square', and another is titled 'square filing. who has tried and given up?' I don't know how to do the linkages to take you to the right threads. Also don't want to get into a p$$in' contest about best brand, but there is an old thread called 'best brand of file?'.

Bottom line for me personally is Oberg, if they still made them. Next best, in my experience, is the Bahco Oberg if you can find them. The ONE I used ALL last summer was pretty good. And I don't have a grinder.

 

[SierraWoodsman]

I like a chain with used up teeth on its final sharpening with the gullets round filed out and the rakers set at .030 , that makes for good cuttin chain.

+1. I agree they seem to cut the best at the end of life.
up until lately I use LGX converted to Square as it pretty cheap, but recently converted some LPX and was impressed by how smooth it seemed to cut, and just as fast as RSC/LGX. May have found a new favorite as it's just as cheap as LGX.

 

[zogger]

Good for you! I like that you're gonna just jump right into it.

There are lots of old threads on chisel filing, usually called 'square filing'. Some are called 'hand filing square', and another is titled 'square filing. who has tried and given up?' I don't know how to do the linkages to take you to the right threads. Also don't want to get into a p$$in' contest about best brand, but there is an old thread called 'best brand of file?'.

Bottom line for me personally is Oberg, if they still made them. Next best, in my experience, is the Bahco Oberg if you can find them. The ONE I used ALL last summer was pretty good. And I don't have a grinder.

That's cool, thanks for the tip. I looked these up, just regular flat files? This is what you use, not double beveled?

 

[hillwilliam]

That's cool, thanks for the tip. I looked these up, just regular flat files? This is what you use, not double beveled?

Double-bevel chisel files. Sometimes I'll use a goofy file on a nearly worn out chain. I usta goofy file my competition chains w/ goofy file. They were very fast, but I'm not sure now if I would have done better w/ a double-bevel.

Some say filing with a goofy is easier. Probably so. I figure that if you learn with a double-bevel, you can do a good job with a goofy. And probably not the converse. My experience is that, depending on the angles you use, a goofy-filed chain is very fast but will not stay sharp as long.

 

[SilverKing]

Double-bevel chisel files. Sometimes I'll use a goofy file on a nearly worn out chain. I usta goofy file my competition chains w/ goofy file. They were very fast, but I'm not sure now if I would have done better w/ a double-bevel.

Some say filing with a goofy is easier. Probably so. I figure that if you learn with a double-bevel, you can do a good job with a goofy. And probably not the converse. My experience is that, depending on the angles you use, a goofy-filed chain is very fast but will not stay sharp as long.

Ok theres another new one.What is a goofy file?

 

[mdavlee]

Here's the file model info.

Bahco 4-150-07-3-0 | Flat Chisel Bit File 7in.

 

[bootboy]

Ok theres another new one.What is a goofy file?

A goofy file has flat sides with radiused edges instead of beveled edges. It's more forgiving in the corner and of your angles in general.