What is a cord

[turnkey4099]

I think or at least thought the reverse is the case at least for they type of logs that could be run through a processor. Look at this rack and the rounds waiting to be split in the picture. There sure look like more void in the rounds. Also look at how the vertical side in the splits matches the vertical end board versus how rounds would both only touch the end at one spot and perhaps not go all the way due to fitting between the rounds below.

.View attachment 953971

Otherwise your post I agree with.

Around here it seems the firewood guys that are worth using more than once have processors and load a dumping type truck loose. Even the ones that take checks don't give a receipt not sure if anyone asks. Another issue could be is having a swinging baffle in the bed which they say is so they can dump half of it only is fair or not. Obviously a vertical baffle will make more voids. I realize it is how it stacks, can't recall I have sold any firewood though I think I did put a craig list ad for as much as you could put in an 8 foot pickup no side boards.

What causes the growth in a pile after splitting/restacking is that every time you split a piece in increase the surface area a considerable extent. Yes a your picture of rounds vs stacks does seem to show less voids but really there are more voids and in total they come to more volume than the voids in the rounds stack.

Simple test you can do sitting in front of your tv. box top either round/square/oblong, whatever. a couple of nicely tapered carrots so you have varying sizes of rounds. Slice rounds and fit them one layer deep in the boxtop as tight as you can. Then dumpt those out, split in halves, quarters, whatever you want. Now fit them back in the box top. You will find you can't do it.

 

[mountainguyed67]

What causes the growth in a pile after splitting/restacking is that every time you split a piece in increase the surface area a considerable extent.

Yes, the way I explain it is that they’ll never be as close as they were before splitting. There’s an air gap around every piece, where before there were no air gaps (within the log itself). This is more drastic with bigger rounds. And yes bigger rounds have a big air gap at the bottom, like in this picture. But I often put small logs or split wood there to fill the void. The growth when splitting a round far surpasses the gaps in rounds anyway.

The trailer sides are two feet tall.

 

[Franny K]

What causes the growth in a pile after splitting/restacking is that every time you split a piece in increase the surface area a considerable extent. Yes a your picture of rounds vs stacks does seem to show less voids but really there are more voids and in total they come to more volume than the voids in the rounds stack.

Simple test you can do sitting in front of your tv. box top either round/square/oblong, whatever. a couple of nicely tapered carrots so you have varying sizes of rounds. Slice rounds and fit them one layer deep in the boxtop as tight as you can. Then dumpt those out, split in halves, quarters, whatever you want. Now fit them back in the box top. You will find you can't do it.

I need to get some carrots. I am thinking of putting the little rounds standing them up in a glass baking pan, backing it up with the cutting board, standing up, photograph, then cut and repeat.

 

[mountainguyed67]

I would rephrase the explanation of "To be installed" to It is a "Bait and Bite Cord" If someone needs edjimacated you give them the skived end and then you get to energize it.

I stopped reading that guys posts, the whole thing was a red herring.

 

[Big Red Oaks]

I'm from the south. We always measured firewood by the pickup load. Now, we have some Yankees living around here selling firewood by the cord. When you look at "their" loads and prices, and compare the value to our locals, the "southern" sellers usually have the best wood and prices. Just sayin'. Lol

 

[madpogue]

When you can wrap a 50' extension cord around a pile of wood twice, that's a cord.

Ok, maybe not. lol

And when the cord unwinds and the plug end hits you in the nose, that's a face cord, right?

Actually, that's a pretty good estimate, provided (1) it's a rectangular pile aprx. twice as long as it is wide, and (2) the logs are 4 feet long. The perimeter of a 4x8 rectangle is 24 feet, so a 50 ft. cord would get around it a little more than twice. So that would be 4x4x8.

 

[turnkey4099]

I need to get some carrots. I am thinking of putting the little rounds standing them up in a glass baking pan, backing it up with the cutting board, standing up, photograph, then cut and repeat.

That would work.

 

[gggGary]

I need to get some carrots. I am thinking of putting the little rounds standing them up in a glass baking pan, backing it up with the cutting board, standing up, photograph, then cut and repeat.

Add a can of mushroom soup, bake at 375F for one hour, cover with french fried onions, and voi·là dinner!
Household accord achieved.

 

[Bearcreek]

I'm from the south. We always measured firewood by the pickup load. Now, we have some Yankees living around here selling firewood by the cord. When you look at "their" loads and prices, and compare the value to our locals, the "southern" sellers usually have the best wood and prices. Just sayin'. Lol

That's common in a lot of areas, not just the south. It's illegal everywhere. Never really made sense to me why though. My theory is that it's mostly ignorance on the part of buyers and ignorance and/or apathy on the part of sellers. To some degree I think there may also be an element of carry-over from the days 25-50 years ago when most pickup beds were basically the same size. That's no longer the case. A cord is always the same. Obviously the way the volume of wood is measured has nothing to do with the quality of that wood. You can have a cord of top quality wood and a pickup load of garbage or vice versa.

 

[gggGary]

Anyone who thinks government needs a dog in this fight, define "tightly"?
We've all heard stories of homeowners spending three hours with a rubber mallet packing a cord then complaining of having been "cheated".
I got tight the other night, others thought I was loose as a goose.
IMHO firewood is a virtual definition of nebulous. Too many variables to pin down. The same vendor's offerings in late august are going to be much different that what they deliver in February of a rough winter. Find a fair vendor that does their best to offer value and stick with them. Anyone BUYING firewood to heat their house is not really making economic sense anyway. Even "free" firewood is more about exercise and "screw the man" than cheap heating.

Section on the left is now nearly full and I still have many ash trees to cut. Somewhere around 25 cords or 5 plus winters of heating. ;^)

 

[Biker Dude]

Back when I got firewood logs in exchange for mechanic services I would measure the log length and diameter at both ends and use truncated cone volume math calculator to find the actual volume of wood in each log. According to my research, there is between 90 and 110 cubic feet of wood in a cord. The rest is air space.

 

[Sandhill Crane]

Bottom line: If the guy promises 10 cord there better be close to 10 cord split and sstacked. That one can measure a log truck load and the cubes come out to 128 cu ft x number promised but it doesn't split stack to that, he can't argue that is was 10 cord on the truck by measure because that does not meed the definition of cord "TIGHTLY STACKED".

Weights and measurss, if they are doing there job, would land on him if you only got 8 cord split/stacked.

Biker Dude: There are studies out there computing the percentage of air space, and even the estimated volume of bark (which would vary enormously from species to species) but they may have specified a particular one. Don't remember.

Not here to change any minds.
Not my intent.
Just got curious myself and spent the time and effort to do the work with real logs, real rounds and splits.
Ya'll think what you want. Just sharing what I did a few years back.

However I will ad, if you do the math, eight 24" dia. circles fits in a 4' x 8' rectangle. Thirty two 12" dia. circles is the same volume as the 24", and fits in the same rectangle.

As for buying logs, it is not the same as buying firewood.
He is not selling cut/split/tightly stacked. Could be what is referred to as a plup cord, no idea.
In my case he is selling 100" logs, culls that can not be milled for pallets or lumber, and is considered a 20 cord load. Some of the butt logs are punky or partially hollow. It's firewood material, cull logs.
As the driver he is probably loading by weight.
A 20 cord load of logs is not going to weigh the same as 20 cord split, however if there is twenty percent loss from logs to splits then 20 cord of logs = 16 cord cut/split. Let's say 17.
17 cord of Oak @ 5,800 pounds green.
98,600 pounds, plus the gvw of the log truck.
Not sure what the MI load limits are. I think it's 120k, could be 160k. Don't really know.
Simply ask the logger selling you the logs if his ten cord load will stack to 10 cord of firewood.
Pretty sure he will say no, of course not.

And to clarify, firewood rounds to splits does gain volume, as shown previously.

You would be short on full carrots to rounds.
They are just too yummy, and the btu output isn't there anyway.

Imagine two truckloads of 8' carrots if that helps...

Lastly, weights and measures.
Does anyone have their phone number? It's a fair question to ask them about a "cord of logs".
And yes, I get a receipt for 20 cords of logs, and give a receipt and pay state sales tax for wood sold. The customer gets a full tightly stacked seasoned cord or fraction of. The state gets 6%, I use the roads to receive logs and deliver firewood.

Not completely loaded, but close.

 

[TRTermite]

Biker Dude: There are studies out there computing the percentage of air space, and even the estimated volume of bark (which would vary enormously from species to species) but they may have specified a particular one. Don't remember.

Not here to change any minds.
Not my intent.
Just got curious myself and spent the time and effort to do the work with real logs, real rounds and splits.
Ya'll think what you want. Just sharing what I did a few years back.

However I will ad, if you do the math, eight 24" dia. circles fits in a 4' x 8' rectangle. Thirty two 12" dia. circles is the same volume as the 24", and fits in the same rectangle.

As for buying logs, it is not the same as buying firewood.
He is not selling cut/split/tightly stacked. Could be what is referred to as a plup cord, no idea.
In my case he is selling 100" logs, culls that can not be milled for pallets or lumber, and is considered a 20 cord load. Some of the butt logs are punky or partially hollow. It's firewood material, cull logs.
As the driver he is probably loading by weight.
A 20 cord load of logs is not going to weigh the same as 20 cord split, however if there is twenty percent loss from logs to splits then 20 cord of logs = 16 cord cut/split. Let's say 17.
17 cord of Oak @ 5,800 pounds green.
98,600 pounds, plus the gvw of the log truck.
Not sure what the MI load limits are. I think it's 120k, could be 160k. Don't really know.
Simply ask the logger selling you the logs if his ten cord load will stack to 10 cord of firewood.
Pretty sure he will say no, of course not.

And to clarify, firewood rounds to splits does gain volume, as shown previously.

You would be short on full carrots to rounds.
They are just too yummy, and the btu output isn't there anyway.

Imagine two truckloads of 8' carrots if that helps...

Lastly, weights and measures.
Does anyone have their phone number? It's a fair question to ask them about a "cord of logs".
And yes, I get a receipt for 20 cords of logs, and give a receipt and pay state sales tax for wood sold. The customer gets a full tightly stacked seasoned cord or fraction of. The state gets 6%, I use the roads to receive logs and deliver firewood.
View attachment 954137 View attachment 954103
Not completely loaded, but close.
View attachment 954143

One "NOTION" i would add to your post is to clarify the part about log quality. Some times a fair log brings more money for firewood than the mill will pay for sawlogs.. and with probably with less hassle.

 

[pwiseman]

I

I'm from the south. We always measured firewood by the pickup load. Now, we have some Yankees living around here selling firewood by the cord. When you look at "their" loads and prices, and compare the value to our locals, the "southern" sellers usually have the best wood and prices. Just sayin'. Lol

Never knew there was such a thing as a "yankee cord". Who would actually buy one?

I burn around a full cord every year and typically expect that a face cord of high-quality aged red oak will be about $150 if I pick it up. Lot of places will load it up with a skid loader. Unless you are moving the wood a long distance, it is a lot faster to dump two buckets into your shortbed truck and generally 3 buckets will be a face cord. This is a bit crude way to measure, but it saves a lot of messing around with stacking. Tight stacked short bed is about a face cord, were you can get about 2/3 of a face cord loaded with a skid which should run you around $100.

I don't buy mixed wood because you can't always trust that a seller is not mixing in soft maple or other wood that might be difficult to identify. Might also see ash in the mix which could be a free ride for emerald ash borers.

Campfire wood is going to be mix of woods in most cases and could include pine, soft maple, birch, poplar and other woods that is not the best for indoor fires. I never need that, but it is worth about half as much as premium firewood.

I can fit close to a full cord into 5x4x10 dump trailer and truck bed. I use 9-10 buckets as my estimator and it saves a lot of stacking time. Most places tend to give you a bit extra if you buy a full cord or knock a bit off the price.

 

[Not_Husky]

No one has yet described a actual cord of wood. I’ve worked in the woods more than 40 years. A cord of wood is 4x4x8 in 8 ft length. 128 cubic feet of wood and air. If you cut and split that cord and stack it in a tight pile it will no longer be a 128 cubic feet. If you stack it very loosely it will be more then 128 cubic feet. If you were able to take a tightly stacked pile of 128 cubic feet and reassemble it into 8 ft logs it would be more then 128 cubic feet. If you take a 10 cord load of logs and cut split and tightly stack it in 128 cubic foot piles you’d be lucky to have 8 piles.

I rarely buy wood but I'd broken my arm and needed too I ran into couple selling oak at a gas station. They had a load on a truck and trailer for someone else, but took my number to deliver me a load the next week. They called, said they had 5 cords. I asked my neighbor if he wanted to go halves. He agreed, and I told them ok. They said they'd be here in the evening. Well, at zero-dark thirty, they were no-shows. Then I got a text at 9:30 that were delayed but on their way. And another at 11:30. They finally showed up at 3am with a couch & washing machine on top of the load on a 16' flatbed. I looked at it and said "That's barely 4 cords". They argued it was 5 and started unloading. I got a tape & measured while they were distracted unloading and waking up the neighborhood (my name was mud at this point). I walked by the open door of the truck to see the wife bent down smoking a glass pipe. Huh. No wonder they were up at 3am. I told them I was holding back $100 because it wasn't 5 but 4 cords. After some arguing and my neighbor Karen coming out in her nightgown screaming and threatening to call the cops, they took my $500 and left. All in all, it was a good deal for just under 4 cord of seasoned oak. I didn't call then back this year, but heard they had pulled the same m.o. on others and one guy was making it his mission in life to put them out of business on Next Door. All they ever had to do was charge the going rate of $250 per honest cord of oak and they would make more money and have more business than they could handle.
But, their brains are too fried to figure that out I suppose.
Bottom line: Always measure the load when it shows up. And remember to account for wheel wells.

 

[turnkey4099]

Anyone who thinks government needs a dog in this fight, define "tightly"?
We've all heard stories of homeowners spending three hours with a rubber mallet packing a cord then complaining of having been "cheated".
I got tight the other night, others thought I was loose as a goose.
IMHO firewood is a virtual definition of nebulous. Too many variables to pin down. The same vendor's offerings in late august are going to be much different that what they deliver in February of a rough winter. Find a fair vendor that does their best to offer value and stick with them. Anyone BUYING firewood to heat their house is not really making economic sense anyway. Even "free" firewood is more about exercise and "screw the man" than cheap heating.
I got tight the other night, others thought I was loose as a goose.
View attachment 954106
Section on the left is now nearly full and I still have many ash trees to cut. Somewhere around 25 cords or 5 plus winters of heating. ;^)

I once heard the definitiion of 'tightly stacked" as. loose enough the mouse can run through it but the cat can't follow.

 

[dave ensign]

Seller, That's a little more than a cord. Buyer, That's less than a cord. Old fart cutting, splitting and stacking his own wood, "That not enough yet".

 

[Franny K]

Not here to change any minds.
Not my intent.
Just got curious myself and spent the time and effort to do the work with real logs, real rounds and splits.
Ya'll think what you want. Just sharing what I did a few years back.

However I will ad, if you do the math, eight 24" dia. circles fits in a 4' x 8' rectangle. Thirty two 12" dia. circles is the same volume as the 24", and fits in the same rectangle.

Same here probably not going to change any minds. I have a number of these racks made up of 8', 34", and 42" pieces of wood. I move them around on the rear of a utility tractor of perhaps 4750 pounds using either forks or the frame of a carry all. It is pretty close to getting airborn on the front and needing steered with the brakes. The carry all thing is really at the limit of bending the angle iron where the pins attach.

It is 30 circles, row of 8 row of 7 row of 8 row of 7 and it is not four feet high any more. This stuff is up to date it is like stacking 1965 or 2170 lithium ion cells in a battery pack.

And to clarify, firewood rounds to splits does gain volume, as shown previously.

You would be short on full carrots to rounds.

I put the carrots on the shopping list however I did not go and have yet to get the carrots. Not proved yet.

That picture I put on post #79 in honesty came from a dead oak tree that had perhaps 2" of rot on the outside and i kind of like peeled the carrots with the new Stihl 3690 23RSpro chain. So they are more like carrots than the usual also I might need burn them this spring not sure so I made them kind of small.

Here is a composite of your pictures from this thread. Of course there are lots of variables especially how the top of the stack of rounds is treated.

 

[Sandhill Crane]

The photo of one hundred racks of rounds was not typical of the ones used in the example. It was spring, and I had ordered the Posch to bundle splits. The racks were filled as much as possible and staged for splitting when the equipment arrived. Posting that photo was probably misleading.

 

[Husky Man]

My last attempt so you on't confuse others. You don't know the difference...or pretend not to know the difference between 'unsafe' and 'at risk'. I do.
The cord as it stands, unterminated at the loose wire end is unsafe as an object. A person can be injured, or injure another through the medium
voltage applied if ...as it is..it is plugged into the mains. Certainly it would be more unsafe were the wires more greatly exposed .

As it lies the cord has the potential to cause harm. In a human environment such as say a construction site in an OHS-intelligent place
you would have your backside booted...as one may say...for leaving it accessible as opposed or example as it being locked in a store.

There it is still 'unsafe' but isolated from use.If however a person leaves it lying about or plugs it in without Standards-level termination
or even C.O.P. 'risk' has been introduced....moving from a minor potential to a greater unsafety viewed as 'risk'.

Risk is commonly viewed as an uncertainty of outcome and yes it is applied 'in advance' using a set of observations and mitigation proposals..

If you, for example, were on a site and left that cord or similar others or others in that condition lying about on a construction site and were
twice warned,a civilised site with OHS-savvy (and even with Union interventions )would have you removed for increasing risk..

Building sites themselves, empty of persons are intrinsically unsafe. Inhabited they don't need a person putting at risk themselves or others or
stakeholders or propperty vulnerable to the intrinsic unsafety or creating new 'unsafeties'. .

USA was the fastest nation to take up the new OHS concepts of Lord Robens, Australia was one of the last. Whilst not properly educated in the
trickery of the UK Government in putting together the 'Robins' propositions , most today think it as a step forward. I do not. In fact it passed off
respnsibility onto workers to safeguard employers..

Robins was a creep who, post-Aberfan (1966 disaster) sold out ..for social promotion. in the way in which Britain has always excelled
...duplicityand disingenuity . Aberfan . which suffered his auhority...was long an unsafe site...you of course might call it 'safe' as people were
surviving the day.....and then it rained heavily...unsafe became 'incvreasingly at risk' then disaster......killing many.

Back at the 'cord'...were it to have a suitable socket correctly polarised and fitted...or a secure junction box with secure, correctly rated and fitted
connectors on the exposed leads then it would be safe..as it stands/lies. Without delving much further...and I hope this 'car' example reduces the risk
that anyone agrees with you or thinks yours a clever answer. I have a personal as well as professional obligation to put a clear case against your
reasoning.

There's something of a macho cutlure in USA. I see over the course of numerous utube videos, for example, scorning chain brakes.is macho for
some and they broadcast it to 'learnersa' and 'admirers' through bad example ...... That does not help people to get a grip on OHS.

in closing, as promised...a car with no brakes is unsafe butproperly tagged puts no one who can read and extend the warning into mindset, at risk. .
You don't have to start it up to know that.. Locked in a compound or barn or garage the car is still not safe..its isolation does not make it 'safe'...
it is still 'unsafe'. It is not until a person starts it or attempts to drive it that the 'unsafe' graduates to 'putting self and other persons at risk'.

That's it...

I bet that you’re a lot of Fun at parties,
Oh wait, you don’t get invited to many parties

some how, I am not Surprised


Doug