What octane are you using ?

[Mad Professor]

Any pump gas we can get here is 10% ethanol.

I went to 100ll av gas

 

[Jonny Quest]

I've read from unreliable sources (another forum) that 93 octane does not have ethanol in it. Anyone here in this reliable forum know if it's true?

A quote from the ethanol industry:

Octane Rating
...important characteristic of gasoline is its octane rating; in general, the higher a fuel’s octane rating the better the engine will perform. Pure ethanol...has an octane rating of 113, compared with 107 for methanol and about 86 to 94 for gasoline.

JQ

 

[mattmc2003]

A quote from the ethanol industry:

Octane Rating
...important characteristic of gasoline is its octane rating; in general, the higher a fuel’s octane rating the better the engine will perform. Pure ethanol...has an octane rating of 113, compared with 107 for methanol and about 86 to 94 for gasoline.

JQ

But i thought ethanol was questionable for its ability to deteriorate carb diaphram and lines and flters and its low shelf life? Not its octane rating?

 

[Slick]

Hey Kevin , I'm a bit south of you down near Benton or just north of Bloomsburg .

danbeg ,you must have scanned through my message in a hurry !! The manuel says to use a min. octane rating of 87 but if your limbing alot and running hi rpm's to use a higher octane but doesn't say what rating to go with . I was wondering if a higher octane makes the saw run hotter and maybe to hi of a octane could actually be a bad thing .

I'm in Bloomsburg All I had for my last mix job was 87 so I'm running that in my 346xp right now, will get 91 next time I mix. I'm a gas scouting freak (drive an Escape Hybrid which do much better on "real" gas..i.e. no ethanol) but there isn't any to be found around here..I think it's a PA law now, 10% everywhere...if you look hard enough there is a sticker on all the pumps...sonoco was the last hold out around here that I know of...

 

[Jonny Quest]

Ethanol...

Just like most things in life - some are positive and some are negative.

Tetra-ethyl lead, abbreviated TEL, is an organometallic compound with the formula (CH3CH2)4Pb. Once a common antiknock additive in gasoline, TEL usage was largely discontinued because of the toxicity of lead and its deleterious effect on catalytic converters. It is still used as an additive in aviation fuel for piston engine powered aircraft.

Since we can't use TEL in automobiles today, refineries have turned to other products to improve the octane rating of gasoline (without more expensive refining). This is one of the primary reasons that ethanol is used today.

Many states and municipalities have mandated that all gasoline fuel be blended with 10 percent alcohol (usually ethanol) during some or all of the year. This is to reduce pollution and allows these areas to comply with federal pollution limits. Because alcohol is partially oxygenated, it produces less overall pollution, including ozone.

When ethanol is first fermented from sugars, it contains water. Ethanol with water is hydrated ethanol. The "fuel grade" ethanol that we use here in the U.S. has virtually no water in it (E10 or E85). Ethanol with no water is anhydrous ethanol. Ethanol is "hydrophilic", meaning it attracts water. The E85 vehicles we have here in the U.S. are not set up to run on hydrated ethanol. That means that "raw" ethanol must be further distilled to remove the water for fuel grade ethanol for our U.S. vehicles.

No doubt, the presence of ethanol (alcohol) can cause certain challenges. These challenges, in my opinion, are not "show-stoppers" but can be managed.

JQ

 

[buzz sawyer]

I was wondering if Ammco is still in bussiness , remember the white gas !!!

We had an Amoco station in the 60's and 70's. Yep, that white gas was good stuff. I pumped a lot of it at $0.33/ gal.

People claimed it would cause valves to burn since there was no lead to lube the seats. Never saw it cause a problem. And yes, it worked well in the Colemen Lanterns.

Sorry - didn't mean to highjack, just had some good memories.

Thanks for the rep Matt!

 

[Termite]

Insurance

I use 110 octane racing fuel. That is what it says at the pump. Along with the 110 octane fuel I use synthetic oil. I have been mixing 50:1. but have been thinking of going richer. TimberWolf made a good point in another thread about 50:1 maybe for EPA reasons more than anything. His point was 40:1 may provide insurance when something is not quite right! I almost bought that Dolmar 115I on ebay. Realy I don't have CAD.

 

[Ma Barker]

sinclair, it is only available in limited areas, i believe, as the refineries are located in Sinclair Wyoming and Oklahoma . . . the octane ratings are always higher, it does cost a bit more than texaco or chevron, but i have always had great luck with it and i KNOW it is supporting the local economy

We have Sinclair here as well. In general, I think it's good fuel, and the octane is always two points higher by grade than competing fuels. I use it in my old sports car whenever there's a smog test coming up.

That said, the Sinclair fuel here is also a 10% ethanol blend.

A quote from the ethanol industry:

Octane Rating
...important characteristic of gasoline is its octane rating; in general, the higher a fuel’s octane rating the better the engine will perform. Pure ethanol...has an octane rating of 113, compared with 107 for methanol and about 86 to 94 for gasoline.

JQ

Ethanol has its charm, but I'm skeptical about better engine performance. I get 10 - 15% worse gas mileage in my truck using ethanol blends -- that suggests inefficiency as compared to conventional gas.

 

[Slick]

Ethanol is definetly less efficient...check out a hybrid car forum for the actual numbers but there are guys on them who are geeks for mileage and track everything....most come out a toss up...ethanol costs less but you get less mileage, most numbers I've seen run it comes out almost exactly the same in dollars per mile....my guess is more ethanol will also mean less logs cut per tank

 

[Ma Barker]

Ethanol is definetly less efficient...check out a hybrid car forum for the actual numbers but there are guys on them who are geeks for mileage and track everything....most come out a toss up...ethanol costs less but you get less mileage, most numbers I've seen run it comes out almost exactly the same in dollars per mile....my guess is more ethanol will also mean less logs cut per tank

Around here, the ethanol blends actually cost 10 - 15 cents more per gallon -- so it costs more per gallon and per mile. As a general rule I just avoid the stuff, but recently local Shell and Chevron stations switched to blends and they did it very quietly.

 

[Octane]

I've read from unreliable sources (another forum) that 93 octane does not have ethanol in it. Anyone here in this reliable forum know if it's true?

I know that around here, on all of the gas pumps they claim that 93 octane fuel does not contain ethanol.
By the buttons where you select which grade you want, under 87 and 89 it says, "may contain up to 10% ethanol", but under the button for 93 it says, "does not contain ethanol".

 

[Outlaw5.0]

I have seen premium here in michigan with the "contains ethanol" label.

 

[PA Plumber]

I know that around here, on all of the gas pumps they claim that 93 octane fuel does not contain ethanol.
By the buttons where you select which grade you want, under 87 and 89 it says, "may contain up to 10% ethanol", but under the button for 93 it says, "does not contain ethanol".

I am not aware of a single self dispense unleaded fuel station in our area that does not contain Ethanol in all of its grades.

I even contacted the owning company of most of the Exxon stations in our area to see if there was any way to get non-ethanol blends at any of their stores... Nope.

So, I make a run once in a while to the local airport for 100LL AV fuel. Plan to run it in all my power equipment ~ 4 wheeler, saws, leaf blower, weed whacker, snow thrower, log splitter, etc.

I had been throwing in Stabil every time I got fuel at the local filling stations. Will be kind of nice not having to mess with that any more.

 

[windthrown]

I've read from unreliable sources (another forum) that 93 octane does not have ethanol in it. Anyone here in this reliable forum know if it's true?

Supreme gas around here is more apt to have ethanol in it becasue ethanol has high octane. Also racing gas; all the gas they use at Indy has been 100% ethanol for like, forever. Pure ethanol has even burning, and thus can be run in much higher compression engines. So you have to be careful what they mean by 'racing' gas.

 

[windthrown]

I got a hold of Husqvarna today through e-mail , there answer to the octane question is here ------------Thank you for contacting Husqvarna with your question. While we do recommend 89 octane fuel, the unit will operate on 87 octane. The higher octane gives a better burn-off and will produce less emissions. It will also prevent buildup of carbon in the cylinder. The units will also run fine on a 10% ethanol mix. However, we recommend that if you are going to let the unit sit longer than 30 day that you empty the fuel tank.

Thanks for posting the feedback from Husky. And doing the leg work. As for ethanol stability, I would use stabilizer in there to help keep it in suspension. I use that anyway (and premix like Echo has it in there already).

Tried to find good gas today and its harder than I thought , unless you can trust all the no-name stations like giant and sheetz and el-cheapo, there's no way to no what kind of gas there selling , I was wondering if Ammco is still in bussiness , remember the white gas !!! A guy that worked for a stihl dealer years ago said thats the only gas they would buy untill one day they went down and got some and it wasn't clear , they asked the owner and he said that load wasn't Ammco and he had purchased unbranded gas on that load . Just seems like you don't really no what your getting . Has anyone found a particular brand that seems to be a hi quality fuel ????

Here in the wild west, they have to put E-10 stickers on gas pumps that sell E-10 ethanol/gas mix. I am down to one gas chain here in the PDX metro area that does not have it yet: SpaceAge. I do not know how long that will last though. Pilot used to have the best all-gasoline gas, but they flipped to E-10 during the gas price spike. The gas price spike pretty much drove all the companies to dump in cheaper ethanol into the gas to keep the price as low as possible. I think that there are laws that will go into effect to force E-10 on us all though. Your corn/ethanol lobby at work!

As for what brands are better, that is a regional thing. In California all the gas comes from the same refineries inside the state, and the gas regulations are very strict, so all the gas there is pretty much the same. Here in Oregon there are no refineries, and all the gas comes from out of state (mostly from Washington). So the gas varies quite a bit. I was told that SpaceAge sucks more than other brands, but it is the last of the non-E-10 gas here, so I would rather use that than E-10. It runs just fine in my truck and in my saws. A big issue is the freshness of the gas. Once it sits, it is going to go off. So if you buy from a mom and pop place that gets deliveries once a month, I would avoid it. Spaceage here gets delivries 3 times a week, and their volume is so highthat the gas is always fresh. But it is right off of I-5.

 

[windthrown]

Ethanol is definetly less efficient...check out a hybrid car forum for the actual numbers but there are guys on them who are geeks for mileage and track everything....most come out a toss up...ethanol costs less but you get less mileage, most numbers I've seen run it comes out almost exactly the same in dollars per mile....my guess is more ethanol will also mean less logs cut per tank

Yep. E-10 sucks for power, and I notice it going up the mountain in my PU.

Ethanol has about 60% of the energy of gasoline, and so it will be 40% less efficient than gasoiline. So E-10 will have about 4% less power, and you will get 4% less fuel efficiency using it. Its is noticable with a tank range of a few hundred miles. It should cost 4% less too, but typically does not.

 

[chugbug]

No problem , Windthrown , I was amazed they got back to me so fast !!! I'm going to do more looking around here in N. E. PA and see what I can find , who would have thought it was so hard to find good gas !!! I'd love to find a good 93 octane without the ethanol ,and then make my mix with either husky low smoke or there XP synthetic blend, I thought maybe I should put a couple gallon of the regular low smoke through it and then maybe switch over to the XP syn. , funny thing is my dealer doesn't even stock the XP oil !!!!! Here's there write up on the XP OIL .

XP™ Professional Peformance 2-Cycle Oil

Our best formulation to date is the “ XP™ Professional Performance” 2-cycle lubricant. It is a synthetic blend designed for tough, professional usage. * Handles high loads at tough professional usage *Excellent lubricating properties *Lowers engine operating temperature * Less coating on the piston and in crankcase * Extends the engine’s life * Provides longer service intervals * Low to medium smoke emission * Includes fuel stabilizer

 

[chugbug]

And here is there regular low smoke oil write up .

Low Smoke 2-Cycle Engine Oil

Meets and exceeds the latest oil specifications for JASO-FD and ISO-EGD, and exceeds the current API TC Spec requirements.* Includes fuel stabilizer to reduce the risk of engine failure or poor running characteristics brought on by stale or poor fuel. * Improves lending with a broader range of fuels, including higher octane fuel. * Noticeable reduction in exhaust smoke. * Reduces fuel oxidation and improves lubricity.

 

[Nailgunner]

minimum 95 octane in the UK, stores pretty well. I buy 5 gallons at a time and decant to a 1 gallon can, never had a problem. it always smells fresh, and I never store for more than 5 weeks.

Ethanol - a few % permitted but no real availability of specifically blended fuels.

 

[windthrown]

In the UK they list the RON, or research octane number on gas sold (if I recall right). Here we average the RON and the octane tested from the pump for the octane listed on the pump. In the states, regular gas is RON 91, and super is RON 95.

Not bad though that they have higher octane available in the UK (supreme there is RON 97) and that they do not have ethanol. But of course, they pay through the nose for gas there, as compared to here. Same with chainsaws.