What to do after running 3/4 of straight gas, piston is scored.

[trouts2]

Bought a new 180C last week. It ran very well for the first tank.
Then next week the tank was out of gas and while I was rushing to get going I put the wrong gas tank in the car. As a result the tank got filled with gas with no oil. So this was the second saw full of gas for the 180C.

I run it clearing trail for 3/4 of a tank of gas with no oil. It was hard to restart and would not low idle. Other than that
it ran ok but did not seem peaked like the week before. Toward the end of cutting it would not restart. When back at the car a half hour later it would not start.

When home I emptied the tank and refilled with 40:1. It starts but now required several pulls. It seems to run fine otherwise except it won't idle. It just stops after getting to idle.

With the muffler off the piston shows scoring. No aluminum melt but lines. I guess the added friction is causing the hard starting and stop at idl

I'm just guessing but think the bearings may be ok. The seals ok and the piston sleeve. The bottom pan is probably ok. I would think the cylinder wall scored, the piston and possibly the rod bearing and crank journal. It seems to rev to max effortlessly.

I have rebuilt 15 or so snowblower engines, Tecumseh and Yamaha but never a two stroke. What is the best thing to do from here? Run it until it seizes? If it seizes I think I could get a kit and rebuild it. If the rod breaks it could break the cylinder but that is scored now. A rod break could push the piston around and I'm not sure what else would be damaged by that. That is it could it damage things beyond the ability of rebuilding it? So would it be better to use it until it siezes or breaks a rod or would it be better the stop using it and put a kit in there now?

Any suggestions would be appreciated.

 

[Deleted member 135597]

P

Bought a new 180C last week. It ran very well for the first tank.
Then next week the tank was out of gas and while I was rushing to get going I put the wrong gas tank in the car. As a result the tank got filled with gas with no oil. So this was the second saw full of gas for the 180C.

I run it clearing trail for 3/4 of a tank of gas with no oil. It was hard to restart and would not low idle. Other than that
it ran ok but did not seem peaked like the week before. Toward the end of cutting it would not restart. When back at the car a half hour later it would not start.

When home I emptied the tank and refilled with 40:1. It starts but now required several pulls. It seems to run fine otherwise except it won't idle. It just stops after getting to idle.

With the muffler off the piston shows scoring. No aluminum melt but lines. I guess the added friction is causing the hard starting and stop at idl

I'm just guessing but think the bearings may be ok. The seals ok and the piston sleeve. The bottom pan is probably ok. I would think the cylinder wall scored, the piston and possibly the rod bearing and crank journal. It seems to rev to max effortlessly.

I have rebuilt 15 or so snowblower engines, Tecumseh and Yamaha but never a two stroke. What is the best thing to do from here? Run it until it seizes? If it seizes I think I could get a kit and rebuild it. If the rod breaks it could break the cylinder but that is scored now. A rod break could push the piston around and I'm not sure what else would be damaged by that. That is it could it damage things beyond the ability of rebuilding it? So would it be better to use it until it siezes or breaks a rod or would it be better the stop using it and put a kit in there now?

Any suggestions would be appreciated.

pull the cylinder and see if you can clean it up with acid. Install new piston and rings. Search for the acid method on this site

 

[s sidewall]

Replace engine, no lube on bearings not good. Piston is toast, if plain bore cylinder, forget trying to clean, groves in cylinders don't clean up too good. Replaced one for my boss on his not long ago, old gas took his out. I got one off eBay for around 40 and he's been running it for awhile.

Steve Sidwell, Samsung On5 using Tapatalk

 

[Mac&Homelite]

Buy a whole new engine from Huztl. Slap it in and away you go.

 

[brandonstc6]

Or used oem. Bearings can be obtained from a industrial supplier or reasonable from a stihl dealer.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[s sidewall]

Buy a whole new engine from Huztl. Slap it in and away you go.

That's who supplied the one I picked up.

Steve Sidwell, Samsung On5 using Tapatalk

 

[stephen warner]

...not good. One time a teenager put straight gas in an old saw I had. It totally seized it; as a test and with nothing to loose except time I took the cylinder off, sanded the piston lightly and then the cylinder. Then oiled them before putting back together. The saw ran (for home owner use) for five years after that! I actually did not expect it to last that long, and it did get used hard sometimes but what the hey! At this point you have nothing to loose, if you give something like this a shot. The true and best fix, as described above, is a new engine; though the bearings may not totally be shot. Sorry to hear. Also, this only works if the rings are not too worn or permanently stuck.

 

[Bedford T]

Take it back and tellem you don't like the way it runs. Just kidding. You can get a complete 180 saw kit from huztl and fix whatever is wrong with yours for like 110$ and have left over stuff or just build a new saw. I would hate to staight gas my saw, bet it made you a little bit sick. Terrible.

 

[trouts2]

Bedford T, Yep, unfortunately I was very pressed for time and scrambling to get many things together and grabbed the wrong gas can. So it goes.
I decided to take out the head and see how bad it is which I think will be bad given the scoring on the piston. If the bearings, rod, seals look ok then I can get the rest of the parts for a rebuild. If the rings are good which I doubt and the cylinder walls not overly baked I might even go with a piston and run it until it dies. No high hopes for the best short of a full rebuild kit. I'll know more tomorrow. It's slow going as I'm figuring out how to take it apart slowly, laying out the parts in order as they come off and taking pictures at each step. My memory is not the best of first shot disassembles. Just the carb, carb linkage and the handle are left to get at the four bottom screws. I'm puzzled about the carb linkage and handle so will search this site and the net tomorrow and should get hits for those.

 

[ChoppyChoppy]

I might have a parts saw. I'll check on Monday if you want parts. Can maybe just mail out the whole saw (what's left of it).

 

[trouts2]

The cylinder wall was scored in a few places. The rings and piston gone. There was no smearing of aluminum. Since the engine ran well at high speed with oil in the gas it is not totally hosed.

The saw was bought for its weight and performance. I back pack into the woods to clear trails so it will not get a lot of use. No cordwood or land clearing. I got a few other saws for general cutting which is isn’t often.

The crank bearings seem ok along with the rod bearing. I cleaned up the cylinder scoring to be smooth with 600 and thought that even with some power lost through the scoring lines there would still be plenty power to cut well. It seemed that was with the scored piston and rings still in. Given the above I thought I’d put in just piston and rings and use like that. If it fails later fine. I’d get a complete rebuild kit.

Getting pistons and rings to Maine fast was pricy so I decided to go with very inexpensive parts and wait a few weeks for them. I could get more parts in little more time for much less. So rather than go with just piston and rings, I bought:

Piston Pin Bearing $1.12

AV Buffer (3) $3.36

Bass Bearing (2) $3.16

Cylinder Kit with piston and rings $11.68

AV Buffer Plug (3) .96

The total with shipping was $31 (10-15 days)

Mac&Homelite: Thanks for mentioning Huztl. Looking into that got me off on a number of things, part kits, complete kits and clones. For the prices a complete kit might be a nice winter project.

 

[Mustang71]

Not to be that guy but my 2 cycle can is a 2 gallon the regular is a 5 gallon can. They color diesel blue and kerosene yellow. Seems like an easy to avoid the mix up. But accidents happen we all have them and luckily you can get all the parts to fix ur saw easily.

 

[Mac&Homelite]

I like the Huztl kits so far. Got a 361 from them so far and it is a dog after some mods. It's currently out due to long term carb issues. Believe that was what lead to the light cylinder scoring, but I'm not sure. I've heard that some of the carbs they make are better than others. Despite that, I'm looking into a 660 with full wrap kit for me to work on over winter break. Need a large cube saw for milling and I think this will be an easier route than finding a basket case. They have some weaknesses but I still think they are worth the effort.

 

[LegDeLimber]

Ditto on the different fuel jugs!
I use a five gallon one for raw fuel and a 1 gallon for premix.
Makes a bit less convenient to fill the push mowers, but (so far) helps me not grab the wrong one for the two cycle gear.
Just trying to fill a trimmer or saw from a five gallon jug should hopefully keep me from getting to far with my error.

Just make sure that your mix oil isn't died the same color as unmixed fuel so that you can tell that your premix jug is good to go.

 

[Little Al]

The cylinder wall was scored in a few places. The rings and piston gone. There was no smearing of aluminum. Since the engine ran well at high speed with oil in the gas it is not totally hosed.

The saw was bought for its weight and performance. I back pack into the woods to clear trails so it will not get a lot of use. No cordwood or land clearing. I got a few other saws for general cutting which is isn’t often.

The crank bearings seem ok along with the rod bearing. I cleaned up the cylinder scoring to be smooth with 600 and thought that even with some power lost through the scoring lines there would still be plenty power to cut well. It seemed that was with the scored piston and rings still in. Given the above I thought I’d put in just piston and rings and use like that. If it fails later fine. I’d get a complete rebuild kit.

Getting pistons and rings to Maine fast was pricy so I decided to go with very inexpensive parts and wait a few weeks for them. I could get more parts in little more time for much less. So rather than go with just piston and rings, I bought:

Piston Pin Bearing $1.12

AV Buffer (3) $3.36

Bass Bearing (2) $3.16

Cylinder Kit with piston and rings $11.68

AV Buffer Plug (3) .96

The total with shipping was $31 (10-15 days)

Mac&Homelite: Thanks for mentioning Huztl. Looking into that got me off on a number of things, part kits, complete kits and clones. For the prices a complete kit might be a nice winter project.

Can I ask why you need to replace the AV kit after just i good & 1crap tank of fuel through a new saw a seized saw usually has no bearing on AV unit's Small money but just curious.

 

[67L36Driver]

Buy a whole new engine from Huztl. Slap it in and away you go.

Yup, I've done three 017/MS180 so far.

Bim, Bam! Thank you mam!

Tinkering the piston/cylinder etc. not worth the effort.

 

[trouts2]

Little Al,

Can I ask why you need to replace the AV kit after just i good & 1crap tank of fuel through a new saw a seized saw usually has no bearing on AV unit's Small money but just curious.

Can I ask why you need to replace the AV kit after just i good & 1crap tank of fuel through a new saw a seized saw usually has no bearing on AV unit's Small money but just curious.



The only chainsaw work I’ve done in the past was clutch, chain replace and fix recoils. Never tried to get off an AV secured handle like the MS180C has. Never had to mess with AV anything so new to me. I was stumped to not see torx screw inside the AV buffers.

After poking around the on how to take off the handle the take away I got was to remove the AV Button Plug, lub the buffer and yank. I had no idea there were button plugs on both sides of the buffer. The yanking netted me 1 ripped top of one buffer and a complete break in the other. After quite a long time I noticed there were two plugs per buffer and with those removed taking out the buffers was possible without damage. It took a long time before I realized I could access the back handle button with the gas tank removed.

All in all it was very time consuming to get the handle to where I could slip It out of the way to get at the bottom 4 cylinder bolts out. Given the difficulty I expect some hassle in getting the buffers in and worse the 6 plugs. I need two buffers so got three just in case one gets damaged while installing them. The plugs are all good but I think getting them all back in will be difficult and some may get damaged. Since it was a buck for three button plugs and two weeks to get them I got extras just in case.

One buffer was ripped apart and a second only a top chunk ripped out so would probably work fine. But with three costing $3.36 and no shipping as it is a flat rate per order I got three.

Dealing with the handle buffers took as much time as taking apart the rest of the machine. I’d like to avoid any glitches on the reassembly.

 

[trouts2]

Not to be that guy but my 2 cycle can is a 2 gallon the regular is a 5 gallon can. They color diesel blue and kerosene yellow. Seems like an easy to avoid the mix up. But accidents happen we all have them and luckily you can get all the parts to fix ur saw easily.

I have separate containers for 2 stroke gas here (Maine camp) and Mass. They are identical 1 gallon tanks on purpose - to be be noticed. They are much different tank all my other tanks which are larger and very different shapes.
The problem was being very rushed when I grabbed the wrong tank and tossed it in the car trunk. At the trail head I was still rushing but had a second barf not noticing while filling up the saw. I watched the light yellow gas go in and very careful not to spill any as the saw was going into my backpack.

 

[user 122190]

Ditto on the different fuel jugs!

Everybody should use a Gas/Oil Combo Can. Hard to mistake this cans purpose.

 

[s sidewall]

Those make a good lawnmower has can, especially if it's burning oil.

Steve Sidwell, Samsung On5 using Tapatalk