bwalker said:
I think the root of the problem goes way back to when Dennis was a mod. It invlves $$$$ and who happens to be in the "in" crowd.Through in a dose of heavy handed, power trip moderation, a few whiney cry babies that squeel and you have the present situation.
I guess it also doesnt help that a few(very few) people post absolute rubbish and are never repremanded for it. Face it lately this forum has had hardly any meaningfull discusions. Standard newbie questions, smileys and dope smoke talk is what this place has degenerated in to.
Now we're scratchin the surface Ben. I agree with some of that, disagree with some of that, and honestly don't know about some of that
I think the root of the problem goes way back to when Dennis was a mod. It invlves $$$$ and who happens to be in the "in" crowd.
I think that we had folks leaving prior to the "and why wouldn't we" in crowd. It seems that here, there is always a need for an "in crowd" or an elite club. The Dennis, Rotax, Babcock, Gypo et al club of the day seemed to me to come out of a friendship forged off the forum as well as on. And while it seemed they were all privy to an "inside joke", so to speak, that the others were not, I don't remember them being exclusionary, inciteful, uncivil or downright nasty to others. Then we start to have the builder/ customer problems with chainsaws. First we have the Rupedoggy/MarkyMark deal. Right, wrong, or indifferent, folks started chooosing up sides and the bad blood is starting to flow. Follow that with the Dennis fiasco, that really tossed the forum on end. In both these situations I come down on the customers side for the simple reason that to me, the high ground should have been the builder's integrity, period! Whenever you are selling something, you should be prepared to eat some of it every once in a while.
Through in a dose of heavy handed, power trip moderation, a few whiney cry babies that squeel and you have the present situation.
This came about why? Look back on some of the threads trashing Art Martin. This from the western dogpack. Now we have some exclusionary, inciteful, uncivil or downright nasty posts happening. I mean no one can even talk about filing a chain if they are not the best, without being chided. And all the inuendo againt Art, that was never actually substantiated here in print, kinda changed the forum some, no? Again, it goes to integrity. Tom Fales could have chose a different tact when he came in here, and if he had he'd a been King around here but it didn't happen like that, did it? It was getting a little nasty in here and I think the moderation was needed. And let's face it, those guys were not modded to heavily even though there new aliases were known to the moderators. And I agreed with the "giving them some more rope" moderating ideology of the day. Of course, since the dogpack had no appreciation for civility, they strained that rope again and again. This is why people were "squealing" This place was beginning to suck. I mean if you have something to say, then make your point,
clearly , and then move on. It was the consistency of the nastiness that was the problem. When one person was used up by the "dogpack" they just went on to another.
Face it lately this forum has had hardly any meaningfull discusions.
I disagree here, there are many meaningful discussions here still. That's a personal valuation. I will grant you that, your technical knowledge is deeper than average, so some of what's discussed might be basic to you. On the other hand, we have you and Crofter disecting 2 stroke theory on another thread and even though I don't know what the heck it is you two are talking about most of the time, I love to read it
That's how I learn along with everyone else
So, in the end I'm up for new slates for all that can keep it civil but followed up by the moderator just in case it ain't. I don't hold any grudges or bear any ill will toward anyone. We have lost some substantial contributors here, will they come back? I dunno but I do know if the place can't be kept civil, we won't be attracting anymore.