Why I will never buy another Speeco product again

[redheadwoodshed]

i have a15 ton and the father in law has the 25 ton. Cant go wrong with either and i got mine for 750 out the door full of gas and oils. For everyone telling me the 15 ton wouldnt split crotches i had to try it and it popped through an elm crotch just fine, although she did growl down and grunt alot she got through it, the only thing i noticed is the 15 ton hydraulics heat up quicker then most splitters because it is only a 2.5 gallon resievor. The nice thing about the 15 ton is that with two people you can easily pick it up and put it in the back of the pick-up for hauling whereas the 25 ton will likely make you pop a nut, its a heavy SOB. just my 2 cents i would recommend either one

I bought a 15 ton speeco, have used it less then 8hrs. The valve and return hose blew apart (valve internally) and sprayed everything within an 8 foot radius with hot hydraulic oil. The carb float screwed up and filled the crankcase with gas, the motor blew. They cover it under warranty, ok great. But they screwed up and sent me (2) wrong valves at the same time because they don't communicate in the warranty claims department. When I called them to get it straightened out and have the correct valve shipped to me, and return the 2 wrong ones. They got very hostile on the phone and accused me of trying to "pull one over on the company, and get free parts" when it was their mistake and I called to correct it. Finally today I receive the correct valve, cool. When I unpacked it and took the shipping caps off rust came pouring out of the valve. The whole inside is rusted like no other. Called them back and they called me a liar and wouldn't agree to reship a good valve unless I send them a picture. Sent them the picture of the horrible rust and now it won't be ordered until monday. So basically I have a $900 bright red turd in my garage, and got accused of trying to cheat the company to boot.

So how good are Iron and Oak splitters? Any other suggestions for a splitter that won't run me $4k or more, yet is a decent unit?

So my question is, are these the same splitters?If so, have you changed the hydraulic fluid in those 2 1/2 years between these post?The failures you describe sound exactly like what happens when the fluid isn't changed annually and or has been run too hot.Neither one of these being speeco's, iron & oak's or anyone else's problems.Just like the float on the carb.If they covered it under warranty, I'd say they went far enough already.

 

[KiwiBro]

The plot thickens...
opcorn:

 

[ri chevy]

A member here has one for sale. Looks very nice and heavy duty. http://www.arboristsite.com/firewood-heating-wood-burning-equipment/210382.htm

http://www.arboristsite.com/classifieds.php?do=viewitem&itemid=3266 $2500

 

[stihlcrazy20]

It is the same splitter, I ran it for 8hrs. drained the fuel out and it sat in a heated shed, until I needed it this year (same as all my small power equipment except they haven't had any problems). The 25ton speeco I was talking about is still running and it splits around 75 full cord a year, never a miss. Same motor, he never changed the oil or hydraulic fluid in the 5yrs I have known him. But when you have 8hrs on a machine, its barely broke in it should not be falling apart. It would be like driving a brand new Corvette off the lot and getting 8miles before it starts falling apart. Speeco was very curtious and helpful at first, they sent me parts. But when they send wrong parts and multiple parts because they don't communicate in the warrant deptartment, then accuse me of trying to pull one over on them. And call me a liar when I told them the correct valve I finally received was shot. Well that was BS and out of line. Am I grateful that they are sending parts to repair it? yes. Im not complaining about them sending wrong parts, I have a problem with the way I was treated after receiving multiple wrong parts.

 

[redprospector]

I don't really care to upset any of you, but my 22 ton speedco has not given me any problem at all. I've split some stuff that nearly stalled the engine. I had to reposition the round but it got through it and went about it's business. I hate to see anybody have undue problems with any product they buy. I had a 79 Ford 1 ton I used when I had my trailer business. With 35000 on it every time I would stop it looked like the truck was crying. Dripping from every seal the truck had. I got rid of that one for another Ford F350. This one was worse than the first one. What did I do about it. Just haven't bought another ford since. Nobody knew it till now but why should I tell the automotive world I won't ever buy another Ford? They are doing just fine without me. Plus, I've had to much good luck with Dodge to even worry about it. :msp_smile:

I would just say chalk it up to a learning experience but the title of you post I don't understand. Why? Revenge?

Why tell anyone about the problems I've had? Because I'm a nice guy, I guess.
I'm just letting people who are looking into buying a new splitter what they might expect if they buy a SpeeCo.
I'm not trying to get even, heck I've taken bigger hit's than this and didn't bat an eye. But I feel if you see someone about to make a mistake that can possibly cause them harm, and you don't give them some warning, you own some responsibility in their misfortune.
forwarned is forarmed.

Andy

 

[redheadwoodshed]

It is the same splitter, I ran it for 8hrs. drained the fuel out and it sat in a heated shed, until I needed it this year (same as all my small power equipment except they haven't had any problems). The 25ton speeco I was talking about is still running and it splits around 75 full cord a year, never a miss. Same motor, he never changed the oil or hydraulic fluid in the 5yrs I have known him. But when you have 8hrs on a machine, its barely broke in it should not be falling apart. It would be like driving a brand new Corvette off the lot and getting 8miles before it starts falling apart. Speeco was very curtious and helpful at first, they sent me parts. But when they send wrong parts and multiple parts because they don't communicate in the warrant deptartment, then accuse me of trying to pull one over on them. And call me a liar when I told them the correct valve I finally received was shot. Well that was BS and out of line. Am I grateful that they are sending parts to repair it? yes. Im not complaining about them sending wrong parts, I have a problem with the way I was treated after receiving multiple wrong parts.

Well, I can't abide poor customer service myself and if you quit speeco, I couldn't blame you.I won't go to a Sears for much the same reason.
I can't help myself here, I like to know the cause for catastrophic failures like you described.Was your oil cloudy, like maybe it could have had water in it from condensation while it sat there?That could also be a reason for your valve failing.I'm not sure if it would have affected the hoses though.I hope you get running again. Best of Luck

 

[redprospector]

So my question is, are these the same splitters?If so, have you changed the hydraulic fluid in those 2 1/2 years between these post?The failures you describe sound exactly like what happens when the fluid isn't changed annually and or has been run too hot.Neither one of these being speeco's, iron & oak's or anyone else's problems.Just like the float on the carb.If they covered it under warranty, I'd say they went far enough already.

Come on now, don't become a SpeeCo cheerleader. I'm sure that we are all happy that your splitter is a good one, but you don't have to come up with excuses as to why these failures are not SpeeCo's fault.
Do you really have to change hydraulic oil every year, regardless of how many hours it has on it?
I've never seen a valve come apart from not changing the fluid every 12 months. Hoses blow, fact of life, if they covered that...good for them.
I understand the frustration he is going through. Thankfully, you must not.
The last question I have for you is; If that pail of hydraulic oil you bought to change the oil in your splitter with has been sitting in a warehouse for 14 months........Do you need to change the oil in the pail before you change the oil in your splitter?

Andy

 

[redheadwoodshed]

Come on now, don't become a SpeeCo cheerleader. I'm sure that we are all happy that your splitter is a good one, but you don't have to come up with excuses as to why these failures are not SpeeCo's fault.
Do you really have to change hydraulic oil every year, regardless of how many hours it has on it?
I've never seen a valve come apart from not changing the fluid every 12 months. Hoses blow, fact of life, if they covered that...good for them.
I understand the frustration he is going through. Thankfully, you must not.
The last question I have for you is; If that pail of hydraulic oil you bought to change the oil in your splitter with has been sitting in a warehouse for 14 months........Do you need to change the oil in the pail before you change the oil in your splitter?

Andy

I know it may seem silly to some, but yes, you really need to change the fluid annually.The oil sitting in the warehouse hopefully hasn't been opened.The reason you should change your oil is the oxidation that occurs in the oil, after it is opened.Excess heat causes the oil to break down and lose it's lubricity and it can also increase the permeation of the oil into the hoses, causing premature failure.Then there's the filter.The old oxidized oil can clog the filter causing the pump to cavitate. That's bad.Hydraulics always fail for a reason.I like to know why.
I am not a speeco cheerleader.They basically assemble components other companies manufacture,just like the other splitter companies.I have one, I've put a lot of hours on it.It needs a larger oil capacity and engine isolators.Other than that, it's a decent machine for the $.
I do understand the frustration of being screwed around by some a-hole on the phone over something like this. I've never talked to anyone from speeco, I bought mine through a dealer.I hope he gets satisfaction.

 

[stihlcrazy20]

I believe that chainging oils or fluids every X number of months/miles/hours is just overkill. Heck I have a 2003 Ford F350 SuperDuty with the V10, I change the oil about every 15-20,000 miles. Never has missed a beat and runs just as good as the day I got it. Since I acquired it with 165k miles, there is now 312k miles on it. And the engine runs every bit as good as a brand new on the lot truck. No I have not changed the hydraulic oil in that 15ton, when it blew the fluid was still the yellowish tint it was when I bought it. In my tractor I haven't changed the hydro fluid since I bought it 3 1/2years ago, still the same color and viscosity as it was when I put it in. Seriously what is the point of putting $100 in hydo fluid in a splitter once or more times a year? I see it as a waste of money. Take care of your equipment (providing it is a quality product) and you should get atleast a few years before you have to do anything more then change the engine oil.

 

[redheadwoodshed]

I believe that chainging oils or fluids every X number of months/miles/hours is just overkill. Heck I have a 2003 Ford F350 SuperDuty with the V10, I change the oil about every 15-20,000 miles. Never has missed a beat and runs just as good as the day I got it. Since I acquired it with 165k miles, there is now 312k miles on it. And the engine runs every bit as good as a brand new on the lot truck. No I have not changed the hydraulic oil in that 15ton, when it blew the fluid was still the yellowish tint it was when I bought it. In my tractor I haven't changed the hydro fluid since I bought it 3 1/2years ago, still the same color and viscosity as it was when I put it in. Seriously what is the point of putting $100 in hydo fluid in a splitter once or more times a year? I see it as a waste of money. Take care of your equipment (providing it is a quality product) and you should get atleast a few years before you have to do anything more then change the engine oil.

Whatever.

 

[redprospector]

I know it may seem silly to some, but yes, you really need to change the fluid annually.The oil sitting in the warehouse hopefully hasn't been opened.The reason you should change your oil is the oxidation that occurs in the oil, after it is opened.Excess heat causes the oil to break down and lose it's lubricity and it can also increase the permeation of the oil into the hoses, causing premature failure.Then there's the filter.The old oxidized oil can clog the filter causing the pump to cavitate. That's bad.Hydraulics always fail for a reason.I like to know why.
I am not a speeco cheerleader.They basically assemble components other companies manufacture,just like the other splitter companies.I have one, I've put a lot of hours on it.It needs a larger oil capacity and engine isolators.Other than that, it's a decent machine for the $.
I do understand the frustration of being screwed around by some a-hole on the phone over something like this. I've never talked to anyone from speeco, I bought mine through a dealer.I hope he gets satisfaction.

I hope you took my post in the good nature it was intended. That being said......
Unless the oil has been contaminated from condensation in the tank, at 8 hours run time, even with 2 1/2 years behind it I think it would be unlikely that the oil would be the cause of a failure.
I have machines that have 30 to 50 gallon hydraulic tanks. The oil I use is about 18 bucks a gallon so I don't change the oil before 250 hours on the masticator's, and 500 hours on the other machines as long as it's not been contaminated. I know that heat is the biggest enemy of hydraulic systems (other than contamination), but I don't believe that the average person could pull the handle on a splitter fast enough to get the heat up to what a masticator will run on average, and that oil will last 250 hours. Maybe more if you had it annalized.
I had a guy working on one of my machines the other day and I had him look at my Huskee splitter. He said the same thing I told SpeeCo over a year ago...The pump isn't kicking down into low range the way it's supposed to. He said that pump wasn't worth messing with, get a Barns. So I guess I'll get me a new pump some time.
I rebuilt my 26 year old Duerr splitter from stem to stern and spent about $900 (upgraded to a 9 hp engine & 16 gpm pump ) So I guess if I put another $900 in my $900 Huskee, I might have a decent splitter.

Andy

 

[redheadwoodshed]

I hope you took my post in the good nature it was intended. That being said......
Unless the oil has been contaminated from condensation in the tank, at 8 hours run time, even with 2 1/2 years behind it I think it would be unlikely that the oil would be the cause of a failure.
I have machines that have 30 to 50 gallon hydraulic tanks. The oil I use is about 18 bucks a gallon so I don't change the oil before 250 hours on the masticator's, and 500 hours on the other machines as long as it's not been contaminated. I know that heat is the biggest enemy of hydraulic systems (other than contamination), but I don't believe that the average person could pull the handle on a splitter fast enough to get the heat up to what a masticator will run on average, and that oil will last 250 hours. Maybe more if you had it annalized.
I had a guy working on one of my machines the other day and I had him look at my Huskee splitter. He said the same thing I told SpeeCo over a year ago...The pump isn't kicking down into low range the way it's supposed to. He said that pump wasn't worth messing with, get a Barns. So I guess I'll get me a new pump some time.
I rebuilt my 26 year old Duerr splitter from stem to stern and spent about $900 (upgraded to a 9 hp engine & 16 gpm pump ) So I guess if I put another $900 in my $900 Huskee, I might have a decent splitter.

Andy

Absolutely! It's all cool! I understand the guys frustrations, but something caused his splitter to fail.I was just trying to help him figure it out. Hydraulic oil is basically ruined when it hits 180 degrees F. With a tank capacity of only 2.5 gal. that wouldn't be hard to do in 8 hours of splitting.My 35 ton holds about 6 gal. and it gets too hot very fast.On a warm day it takes about 3 hours to get it too hot. That's the biggest gripe I have against portable splitters. They put the bigger pumps on them (mine's 16gpm) but don't put enough oil capacity to match it.In hydraulics, all components need to match up for the machine to be efficient. Really, that's about all speeco builds is the tank.The rest you can just buy and screw it on. And I'm convinced my pump doesn't drop down to the low side either, but I believe it's because it doesn't get in enough of a bind to.I don't know if it can be adjusted or not.I get enough oil on me at work, splitting wood is more like therapy to me and I haven't taken the time to look at it, but I think mine has a Barnes on it.All the components look good on my splitter, except the tank.But, I have a plan for that. I demo'd a International school bus recently.I removed the chunk from the rearend to go to the scrapyard.I pulled out the axles for a heavy bumper build on my tractor and with one of the spindle assemblies I plan on building a merry-go-round for my grand daughters.But the case of the rearend with the axles removed and the ends cut off looks to me like a hydraulic tank! It should hold about 15 gallons and I will cut and drill a plate to match the bolt pattern of where the chunk bolted up, turn that up and voila! a hydraulic tank is born.I then just have to mount the rest of the splitter to it.Should be easy enough for a redneck.:msp_thumbup:
On changing the fluid annually, I will keep doing it, but if you don't, I would at least change the filter every year.A hundred or so dollars a year is still cheaper than a new splitter.

 

[Preston]

I would think changing the oil and/or being leary of opened oil would be the same issue as I've been warned with power steering fluid. Once it's opened moisture starts to build in it. I've always bought as small a container of it just for that reason. Brake fluid's the same.

Still I would also like to know what caused the failure of the splitter. To place a warning on something you've had a problem with, not knowing what caused the problem, just seems a bit unfair to me. Before I would go that route I would know the specifics then I would tear into their hide. Even at that I dare say Speeco has hundreds in use with little to no problems in comparison to the one in question. So for me the warning seems to be a personal thing and not an industry norm. Even at that the customer service provided cannot be tolerated in any business. That is the best way to go out of business. I wonder if the co thinks they've been gouged so many time they don't trust any of their customers. If so that is a sad state of affairs.

 

[Kevin in Ohio]

Absolutely! It's all cool! I understand the guys frustrations, but something caused his splitter to fail.I was just trying to help him figure it out. Hydraulic oil is basically ruined when it hits 180 degrees F. With a tank capacity of only 2.5 gal. that wouldn't be hard to do in 8 hours of splitting.My 35 ton holds about 6 gal. and it gets too hot very fast.On a warm day it takes about 3 hours to get it too hot. That's the biggest gripe I have against portable splitters. They put the bigger pumps on them (mine's 16gpm) but don't put enough oil capacity to match it.In hydraulics, all components need to match up for the machine to be efficient. Really, that's about all speeco builds is the tank.The rest you can just buy and screw it on. And I'm convinced my pump doesn't drop down to the low side either, but I believe it's because it doesn't get in enough of a bind to.I don't know if it can be adjusted or not.I get enough oil on me at work, splitting wood is more like therapy to me and I haven't taken the time to look at it, but I think mine has a Barnes on it.All the components look good on my splitter, except the tank.But, I have a plan for that. I demo'd a International school bus recently.I removed the chunk from the rearend to go to the scrapyard.I pulled out the axles for a heavy bumper build on my tractor and with one of the spindle assemblies I plan on building a merry-go-round for my grand daughters.But the case of the rearend with the axles removed and the ends cut off looks to me like a hydraulic tank! It should hold about 15 gallons and I will cut and drill a plate to match the bolt pattern of where the chunk bolted up, turn that up and voila! a hydraulic tank is born.I then just have to mount the rest of the splitter to it.Should be easy enough for a redneck.:msp_thumbup:
On changing the fluid annually, I will keep doing it, but if you don't, I would at least change the filter every year.A hundred or so dollars a year is still cheaper than a new splitter.

My current splitter has 33 gallons of fluid so blind oil changes are kind of pricey. To eliminate the guesswork just have it tested. A good fluid power supplier should be able to do it for you. We started doing this with tractors where I used to work and it saved a LOT of money in the long run. I do agree with the filter changes, that is cheap insurance.

On a splitter with a small tank, yes, I'd be more apt to change as we're not talking much. On something bigger, it adds up fast anymore.

 

[redheadwoodshed]

My current splitter has 33 gallons of fluid so blind oil changes are kind of pricey. To eliminate the guesswork just have it tested. A good fluid power supplier should be able to do it for you. We started doing this with tractors where I used to work and it saved a LOT of money in the long run. I do agree with the filter changes, that is cheap insurance.

On a splitter with a small tank, yes, I'd be more apt to change as we're not talking much. On something bigger, it adds up fast anymore.

I agree 100%. With 5 or 6 gallons a machine that gets used pretty regular, an oil change every year is a must. I've been wanting to find some one to do test.The co.we use at work is in AZ and it seems to take forever to get the results back. At 33 gallons on a 16 to 20 gpm pump (I can't remember what you used, but it was badass) you shouldn't have any heat problems at all.

 

[JeffHK454]

There are several local hydraulic shops around me that offer oil analysis at a very reasonable price. I know it costs me $100 to do a oil change in my 34 ton Speeco..which I haven't done in over 10 years! Like Kevin said , blindly changing hyd. oil is expensive and wasteful.

The hyd. shop I worked at use take 100 gallons of oil a week in from mandatory warranty preventive maintenance programs..all of it was 99.999% perfect and showed no signs of wear...lab tested and proven.

Oil companies have spent lots of money spreading propaganda over the years about their products lifespan..Mobil use to send pamphlets out telling all us hyd. techs to push for scheduled changes ...even when they didn't need them. They knew that their oil lasted 1,000's of hours but wanted us to change it every couple hundred.

I don't miss that job...

 

[redheadwoodshed]

There are several local hydraulic shops around me that offer oil analysis at a very reasonable price. I know it costs me $100 to do a oil change in my 34 ton Speeco..which I haven't done in over 10 years! Like Kevin said , blindly changing hyd. oil is expensive and wasteful.

The hyd. shop I worked at use take 100 gallons of oil a week in from mandatory warranty preventive maintenance programs..all of it was 99.999% perfect and showed no signs of wear...lab tested and proven.

Oil companies have spent lots of money spreading propaganda over the years about their products lifespan..Mobil use to send pamphlets out telling all us hyd. techs to push for scheduled changes ...even when they didn't need them. They knew that their oil lasted 1,000's of hours but wanted us to change it every couple hundred.

I don't miss that job...

Why a hundred $. 5 gallons of Hyd. oil is 30 odd dollars and a filter around 12$

 

[redheadwoodshed]

There are several local hydraulic shops around me that offer oil analysis at a very reasonable price. I know it costs me $100 to do a oil change in my 34 ton Speeco..which I haven't done in over 10 years! Like Kevin said , blindly changing hyd. oil is expensive and wasteful.

The hyd. shop I worked at use take 100 gallons of oil a week in from mandatory warranty preventive maintenance programs..all of it was 99.999% perfect and showed no signs of wear...lab tested and proven.

Oil companies have spent lots of money spreading propaganda over the years about their products lifespan..Mobil use to send pamphlets out telling all us hyd. techs to push for scheduled changes ...even when they didn't need them. They knew that their oil lasted 1,000's of hours but wanted us to change it every couple hundred.

I don't miss that job...

But, like I said before, whatever.
My splitter holds about 6.5 gallons.It pumps at 16 gpm.The fluid gets hot.It stays hot for long periods of time.That breaks oil down and causes valves to varnish, hoses to deteriorate and valves to gum up, it causes failures in hydraulic systems....lab tested and proven.
We send in oil samples now.(from work) some come back better than others.Some call for a fluid change and there is no piece of equipment here older than 3 years.
My advise is maintain your equipment the best you can.

 

[Kevin in Ohio]

Why a hundred $. 5 gallons of Hyd. oil is 30 odd dollars and a filter around 12$

The last Case HyTran I got was $76.60 for 5 gallons. It costs more but from experience it last more than long enough to pay for itself on something that is sealed well or doesn't leak out. I didn't test a bunch of brands. Just what the local farm store had for cheap. Your mileage may vary.

I'm running a 28 gpm pump on my splitter so it does move quite a bit of fluid. I was always told a good rule of thumb is one to one on tank size to gpm. That's why I built mine that way. On mine at peak operation, it cycles basically the whole tank in a minute. Yours cycles complete tank almost 3 times/minute. I've seen guys with 2 or less gallon tanks and wondered how that stands up.

In no way trying to argue here, just stating what I have found and has worked well for me.

 

[JeffHK454]

Why a hundred $. 5 gallons of Hyd. oil is 30 odd dollars and a filter around 12$

Mobil DTE is exspensive.

Heck for years I brought "bad" hyd. oil home and ran it in all my equipment and most of my friends stuff for that mattar.

I've worked on my share hydraulic components and have never seen oil burnt to the point that it varnished machined parts to the point they wouldn't function...assuming it was in proper working order and maintained correctly.

Systems that make heat like that weren't sized or plumbed properly from the get go...or have something failing.

I'll quit mucking up this guys "I hate Speeco" thread..:msp_thumbsup: