Wood heat, chimneys. Worth it?

[fbh31118]

I'm considering putting a wood stove or add on in my basement to help reduce the amount of natural gas that we use. I've got a walk out basement so getting wood and equipement in and out is not an issue. Here's a few questions I've thought about

What do I need to consider chimney wise?

Can this be flexable to go from a wood stove to an add on furnace later when funds permit?

Should I just plan on going thru the floor, atic and roof as opposed to an exterior wall and up, is there a difference?

Is shingle staining inevitable or can this be prevented with pipe length.

Stainless triple wall the safest way to go?


My first choice would be to put an add on furnace next to my regular furnance but that is not cost fesiable at the moment. It doesn't seem to make sense though to put a chimney in twice for a late upgrade. The worst part is that I just put a new roof in and would have to cut things back in if I go thru the roof. Here's a look, my furnace is just to the left of the window and in the center of the basement. Any thoughts or suggetsions?

 

[skid row]

Go with stainless all fuel chimney in the correct size for your heat source. I used an existing window to exit my wood furnace. Replaced the glass with thick aluminum plate and cut a hole in it. Was alot cheaper and easier than renting a core drill with a big diamond bit and boring thru the block.

Best to place the add on furnace as close to the existing furnace as possible to tie into the plenum and cold air return. I ran 24 gauge single wall from the wood furnace to the thimble. Kits have all that hardware for either running thru the wall OR thru the roof. Ya just have to buy the straight chimney sections to complete the chimney.

 

[Wet1]

I'd think long and hard about this one, especially if you'll have to pay for the wood. NG is pretty cheap compared to most of the alternatives these days. Getting into the wood burning game can cost a few dollars as well when you consider the cost of the initial install, the necessary harvesting gear, plus the 'real' cost of getting the wood to your stove. If you can get the wood for 'free', keep in mind it takes a lot of time and hard work to harvest it... you almost have to love doing it for it to be worthwhile. Then you have to consider the time and effort it takes to maintain a fire, it's a lot more effort than a traditional central heating system. Are you okay with some the dirt and bugs? Don't forget a stove is a space heater and heating the basement can be fairly inefficient...

Add all of this up and I think you'll find the payback isn't all that quick since you're starting with a relatively low cost heating source to begin with. If you have to pay for your wood supply, it will take quite a long to for the payback

Don't get me wrong, I like wood burning, but it's not for everyone!

 

[Crofter]

I'd think long and hard about this one, especially if you'll have to pay for the wood. NG is pretty cheap compared to most of the alternatives these days. Getting into the wood burning game can cost a few dollars as well when you consider the cost of the initial install, the necessary harvesting gear, plus the 'real' cost of getting the wood to your stove. If you can get the wood for 'free', keep in mind it takes a lot of time and hard work to harvest it... you almost have to love doing it for it to be worthwhile. Then you have to consider the time and effort it takes to maintain a fire, it's a lot more effort than a traditional central heating system. Are you okay with some the dirt and bugs? Don't forget a stove is a space heater and heating the basement can be fairly inefficient...

Add all of this up and I think you'll find the payback isn't all that quick since you're starting with a relatively low cost heating source to begin with. If you have to pay for your wood supply, it will take quite a long to for the payback

Lots of good advice in that post! I just installed a new wood cook stove and SS insulated chimney system. It will cost well over 3000$ plus a lot of work before all is said and done. This is in addition to an EPA heater Since I am retired and in the winter time cutting wood and playing with the stoves provides my exercise and entertainment it is OK. I would have a hard time justifying it on an investment basis.

 

[habanero]

I'd think long and hard about this one, especially if you'll have to pay for the wood. NG is pretty cheap compared to most of the alternatives these days. Getting into the wood burning game can cost a few dollars as well when you consider the cost of the initial install, the necessary harvesting gear, plus the 'real' cost of getting the wood to your stove. If you can get the wood for 'free', keep in mind it takes a lot of time and hard work to harvest it... you almost have to love doing it for it to be worthwhile. Then you have to consider the time and effort it takes to maintain a fire, it's a lot more effort than a traditional central heating system. Are you okay with some the dirt and bugs? Don't forget a stove is a space heater and heating the basement can be fairly inefficient...

Add all of this up and I think you'll find the payback isn't all that quick since you're starting with a relatively low cost heating source to begin with. If you have to pay for your wood supply, it will take quite a long to for the payback

Don't get me wrong, I like wood burning, but it's not for everyone!

I whole-heartedly agree. I can't believe what I'm seeing wood sell for this year. On a btu-for-btu basis, taking into account the relative efficiencies of modern gas furnaces vs wood stoves, wood costs more than natural gas if you have to buy it.

A guy I work with just dropped a few thousand dollars on an outdoor boiler without first researching wood costs. He about had a stroke when he started seeing firewood prices. Keep in mind this is somebody who lives more or less in what I would consider to be city and has never touched a chainsaw in his life.

 

[saw mutt]

Granted I have access to all the wood I need, and wood only costs my time and gas to harvest/haul/split it.

That said, 5 years ago, I installed a wood stove with a triple wall SS chimney (all labor done myself with a little help from friends). It paid for itself the first winter in saved propane. Yes it is more work, but I can use the exercise.

 

[mga]

I whole-heartedly agree. I can't believe what I'm seeing wood sell for this year. On a btu-for-btu basis, taking into account the relative efficiencies of modern gas furnaces vs wood stoves, wood costs more than natural gas if you have to buy it.

A guy I work with just dropped a few thousand dollars on an outdoor boiler without first researching wood costs. He about had a stroke when he started seeing firewood prices. Keep in mind this is somebody who lives more or less in what I would consider to be city and has never touched a chainsaw in his life.

even skids are getting hard to find. not that i burn skids, many people do, but i needed some to stack my wood on. one guy told me he gets $5.00 per skid. another guy told me he was charged an additional $20 for the skids his landscaping rocks came on.

a friend runs a machine shop and he tells me he gets almost $10 for a perfect skid. no one wants to give them away any more! either people are scarfing them up for firewood, or they are stealing them to re-sell them to the skid places.

free firewood is getting harder to find around here. a friend was taking down a nice maple tree and i was going to grab the wood....until the homeowner told him he wanted to keep it to sell. lol i find many people who don't even burn wood think they're sitting on a gold mine if they have some trees removed.

 

[danrclem]

I think the key is if you have access to wood and if you're willing to do some work. If you have to buy wood it will take a long time to recover the initial cost. The way wood prices are going up you might not ever recover what you have in your system. If you don't mind some work and can get the trees I say go for it.

It's nice not having to depend on someone else for your heat.

 

[fbh31118]

All excelent points. Maybe I should have elaborated just a bit though. I do own a pretty decent saw, own a 3/4 ton pick up and have a nearly limitless supply of free wood at my disposal. The big kicker is the up front cost of a good chimney, saftey being first of course. I'm rethinking my stance on doing a basement unit at this time due to start up costs and considering possibly going with a chimney thru the roof, shorter run = lower cost. Must do more research.

 

[excess650]

My house is a bi-level or raised ranch that was built in the early 70s. Baseboard electric was the only form of heat, and it didn't take us long to figure out that we needed some back-up. One electric bill was $350 for a month! We had a chimney put in around '94 or '95. The hole dug was down to the original footer and the footing for the chimney was attached for stability. We had a hearth laid in the basement on that end of the house, and the stairwell is center in the front. Rather than go with wood, we opted for hard coal as it is available locally, and reasonably. Even now, the price of hard coal is about the same per ton as wood pellets.

Since using coal in the basement, the entire house warm, and sometimes too warm, and the electric heat is almost never used. I've never used more than 2 tons of coal for the winter, and that would be less than one electric bill.

We're having a new house built now, and it will be heated with wood from a stove in the basement, and a central, masonary chimney. The location of the new house, and the abundance of wood on the 14 acres makes wood the heat source almost by default.

If you have a substantial wood source, by all means, put an efficient wood stove in the basement. The heat will rise and heat the floors, and with a fan or two, an open stairwell, and maybe a vent or two, your house will be warm.

As for a chimney, I wouldn't be adverse to using triple wall stainless pipe. It needs minimal clearance to combustibles, so shouldn't be too obtrusive. The amount of rise from the stove to a bend(to go out a window) can affect draft, so you'll need better advice if you decide to go that route. Be sure and check local building codes before you do anything.

 

[JBinKC]

A stove located on the main level would be a shorter run and it will perform much better in heat distribution. Ideally the longer you run the pipe within the confines of your home straight up the lower the chances for creosote build up because the exhaust will rise unimpeded and significantly reduces the chance for condensation since it is not exposed to the colder air outside.

I agree that the payback will likely take longer especially if you are using natural gas and if you are harvesting your own wood there will be the huge temptation of delaying it by spending more for convenience gadgets like hydraulic splitters.

 

[fbh31118]

I agree that the payback will likely take longer especially if you are using natural gas and if you are harvesting your own wood there will be the huge temptation of delaying it by spending more for convenience gadgets like hydraulic splitters.

I'm fourtunate enough to know someone who owns a splitter and has offered to let me use it when ever I need. The big hang up is the logistics and cost of a good chimney, there's just no substitue for a good, safe flue. I'm thinking that a main floor wood stove would be most cost effective but there is still a huge safety factor with the kids running around that I haven't figured out yet. Kids run around and play with out even thinking about whats going on around them.

 

[Mike PA]

When I bought my house, the first thing I did was put in a would stove and a stainless steel chimney. I put the stove in the basement to keep the mess and hazard away from the living area. I keep the basement door open and have a blower on the stove. It takes some time to get heat through the house, but I also don't have the extreme heat you can get from a woodstove in the living space.

My stainless is two wall, insulated. Great stuff - best decision I made. Went out through the block wall and up the side of the house. Big advanatage was that it was installed and usable within hours. BTW - to go through block wall, use a hammer drill with a 3/8" bit and drill the perimeter of the area to knock out. Once the holes are drilled, just use a hammer to knock the block out. No need for a core bit. Push pipe through and repair with cement.

 

[mga]

My house is a bi-level or raised ranch that was built in the early 70s. Baseboard electric was the only form of heat, and it didn't take us long to figure out that we needed some back-up. One electric bill was $350 for a month! We had a chimney put in around '94 or '95. The hole dug was down to the original footer and the footing for the chimney was attached for stability. We had a hearth laid in the basement on that end of the house, and the stairwell is center in the front. Rather than go with wood, we opted for hard coal as it is available locally, and reasonably. Even now, the price of hard coal is about the same per ton as wood pellets.

Since using coal in the basement, the entire house warm, and sometimes too warm, and the electric heat is almost never used. I've never used more than 2 tons of coal for the winter, and that would be less than one electric bill.

We're having a new house built now, and it will be heated with wood from a stove in the basement, and a central, masonary chimney. The location of the new house, and the abundance of wood on the 14 acres makes wood the heat source almost by default.

If you have a substantial wood source, by all means, put an efficient wood stove in the basement. The heat will rise and heat the floors, and with a fan or two, an open stairwell, and maybe a vent or two, your house will be warm.

As for a chimney, I wouldn't be adverse to using triple wall stainless pipe. It needs minimal clearance to combustibles, so shouldn't be too obtrusive. The amount of rise from the stove to a bend(to go out a window) can affect draft, so you'll need better advice if you decide to go that route. Be sure and check local building codes before you do anything.

interesting post.

but, if coal was that abundant and cheap why not opt for a coal/wood burner?

 

[bama]

even skids are getting hard to find. not that i burn skids, many people do, but i needed some to stack my wood on. one guy told me he gets $5.00 per skid. another guy told me he was charged an additional $20 for the skids his landscaping rocks came on.

a friend runs a machine shop and he tells me he gets almost $10 for a perfect skid. no one wants to give them away any more! either people are scarfing them up for firewood, or they are stealing them to re-sell them to the skid places.

free firewood is getting harder to find around here. a friend was taking down a nice maple tree and i was going to grab the wood....until the homeowner told him he wanted to keep it to sell. lol i find many people who don't even burn wood think they're sitting on a gold mine if they have some trees removed.

When I had my patio brick delivered, they charged my $20 per pallet! It was refundable if I brought them back. We used to get them for nothing and the guys I got them from were happy to get rid of them. Boy, things have changed!

 

[danrclem]

Figure up the price of a stove and chimney. It looks as though you have just about everything else.

I know you have natural gas but with your supply of wood it won't take long to reclaim that money. I heard an announcement last night that the biggest supplier of natural gas in my area is going up 20%. The more it goes up the more you're going to save.

If you are going to use wood as your main source of heat you could probably reclaim your investment in 5 years or less that is if your stove price is reasonable.

I burned wood earlier in my life back in the late 70's and early 80's. I built a new house in 1988 and didn't put a chimney in it. It was probably about 7 years ago that I decided to go with wood again. I was going to just burn on weekends to help out with the gas bill. I started using it every day in cold weather and haven't looked back.

 

[excess650]

interesting post.

but, if coal was that abundant and cheap why not opt for a coal/wood burner?

Hard coal is available locally in central Pennsylvania, but not so available or inexpensive some 350 miles south where the new house is. The new house is situated on 14 acres of hardwood, and there is already plenty of wood from clearing a building site and cutting the down and standing dead. Extreme temperatures are much more moderate just north of the NC border in the foothills of the Blue Ridge Mountains. Also, spring and fall are about 3 weeks earlier and later than where I live now. Primary heating and cooling will be with a heatpump, and a woodstove in the basement of a 1-1/2 story log house should make it pretty cozy on the coldest nights. There will be a propane stove in the livingroom on the first floor for affect, and occasional use.