Woodmaster vs Central Boiler advice please

[windthrown]

Fan vs draft

Hello, Windthrown. Was on the Heatmor site the other day and i noticed they claim that a forced air draft is more efficient. With todays legal system I dont think too many companys make false claims like that.. Must be something to it.

Well, lets see what they say over at the Heatmor web site. Here it is. They say that the forced air draft:

"increases efficiency of burn over
natural draft systems."

You are falling for their advertizing gimmik. The statement is that the fan increases wood burning efficiency. They do not say that it increases heating efficiency. There is a difference. My beef with fans is that while fans can get the wood burning hotter and faster, they also force a lot of that heat from the burning wood right out the stack. And I do not belive that they are correct in the statement anyway, as a natural convection draft can be as effective as a forced air draft.

Like a lot of ads on the internet, a lot of them are just hot air. I mean, if you believe all the ads on the internet, then you should be able to make $25,000 a week just sitting there reading the AS forum posts. It must be true! :hmm3grin2orange:

 

[windthrown]

Burning?

"Hey, as long as we are all happy and warm, who cares what brand we have. What is everyone burnin??"

Junk mail, old furnature, old scrap wood, alder, doug fir, white oak, old rotten fence posts, madrone, big leaf maple, grand fir, red cedar, sycamore, ponderosa pine, sawdust, and cardboard. Pretty much anything that is not treated or painted.

 

[MS-310]

Well, lets see what they say over at the Heatmor web site. Here it is. They say that the forced air draft:

"increases efficiency of burn over
natural draft systems."

You are falling for their advertizing gimmik. The statement is that the fan increases wood burning efficiency. They do not say that it increases heating efficiency. There is a difference. My beef with fans is that while fans can get the wood burning hotter and faster, they also force a lot of that heat from the burning wood right out the stack. And I do not belive that they are correct in the statement anyway, as a natural convection draft can be as effective as a forced air draft.

Like a lot of ads on the internet, a lot of them are just hot air. I mean, if you believe all the ads on the internet, then you should be able to make $25,000 a week just sitting there reading the AS forum posts. It must be true! :hmm3grin2orange:

I will support that statment.

 

[HUSKYMAN]

Green wood burns faster because the process of boiling off all the water contained in the wood eats up BTU's.

So why do you burn green wood then?

 

[windthrown]

Green vs dry...

So why do you burn green wood then?

We only burn green or wet wood here if it is all that we have left for the year. Or if I am burning yard waste just to get rid of it (like the X-mas tree a few weeks ago). Green and/or wet wood will burn, but it will not burn nearly as efficiently as dry and seasoned wood will. As said here by someone else above, you will give up BTU's burning green wood to drive off the water in the form of steam. Net effect, you have to burn more green and wet wood than dry wood for the same amount of heat supplied to your house.

 

[ktm250rider]

We have yet to purchase our OWB but Ive started researching and cutting wood.
The ash augers are pretty useless from what I can determine. The ash will form a bridge around the auger and thus become useless. I used to see this alot with plastic pellets in the hoppers of extrusion machines.
Also, SS ist great if you use the correct type. Not all grades of SS are equal and may not perform as well as steel.
OH yeah, we are probably going with a central boiler. We will be heating 4000 sqft of house with hydronic hot air and radiant floor in tile areas and 3 car garage. At some point, hot tub will be included if i ever finish the deck. Ill probably run domestic hot water off of propane boiler.

 

[hockeypuck]

What type of wood are you going to be burning?

 

[ktm250rider]

What type of wood are you going to be burning?

Depends on the temp. When its fairly warm ill get rid of my pine and hemlock when it gets colder ill switch over to my hard woods, oak, maple, etc. We've got 50 acres to support it. I just need to get my bridge finished so i can get to the meat of the wood.

 

[johnb]

Wow

Buy a Hardy OWB and burn whatever you want! Get the forced air unit. Oh, yea, thats all they sell is forced air. Above all check them all out!! Happy wood burning! The Hoosier

 

[windthrown]

We have yet to purchase our OWB but Ive started researching and cutting wood.
The ash augers are pretty useless from what I can determine. The ash will form a bridge around the auger and thus become useless. I used to see this alot with plastic pellets in the hoppers of extrusion machines.
Also, SS ist great if you use the correct type. Not all grades of SS are equal and may not perform as well as steel.
OH yeah, we are probably going with a central boiler. We will be heating 4000 sqft of house with hydronic hot air and radiant floor in tile areas and 3 car garage. At some point, hot tub will be included if i ever finish the deck. Ill probably run domestic hot water off of propane boiler.

If you are going with an OWB, you may as well heat your hot water with it too.

 

[grandpatractor]

If you are going with an OWB, you may as well heat your hot water with it too.

yup I have a plate on the inlet of my hot water heater and the propane usage is nil when the owb is going in the winter. I use more propane in the summer

 

[ktm250rider]

heat your hot water with it too.

No sense heating my hot water, hahaaaa. Ill probably use the OWB to heat the "cold" water in the winter. IN summer, ill run the boiler for hot water. I really dont like messing around with fires when its 90+ out.

 

[hockeypuck]

Depends on the temp. When its fairly warm ill get rid of my pine and hemlock when it gets colder ill switch over to my hard woods, oak, maple, etc. We've got 50 acres to support it. I just need to get my bridge finished so i can get to the meat of the wood.

I am live near Winnepesaukee. So if you want to see my Wood Master, just send me a private message. I would go with the WD again because of the original reasons I chose it over CB. I wanted forced draft (nice for burning wet or large but pieces) and the 4 legs make it much easier for set up. Northwood power equipment in Northwood sells them. I bet you could get a good deal on one now.

Puck

Ps. Do not go stainless steel, what ever you do. Not worth the money. I have talked to a few guys that do welding and metal work for a living. The talked me out of it.

 

[ktm250rider]

Puck
I actually stopped at northwood friday afternoon to take a look at them. The legs do make for an easy installation but I would like to have a pad to load from as well. I have very muddy conditions around my proposed boiler location and i figured a nice cement pad would be nice to standon while loading.
Really the only thing I didnt like about the woodmaster was the fiberglass insulation. I would prefer the ureathane foam insulation as the Central boiler.

 

[hockeypuck]

foam vs fiber

That was my one reservation but after seeing the amount of snow that was left on top of my unit, I realized that there was not much heat loss. The foam can crack over time, but some say not. In a couple of years I could always have someone come in and foam mine. There are many foam sprayers running around my area. Seems like the thing to do on new houses. Make sure you get the good thermal pex pipe to put in the ground. I bought the pipe from my local CB dealer because the stuff that WM was selling was crap.

Puck

PS. either way CB or WM you can not go wrong.

 

[ktm250rider]

Now that you mentioned it, that was the other thing i noticed about the unit. They used a thin insulation in the corregated pipe. The unit I looked at comes with 35'. I need approximately 100' for my optimal location. They were letting the 4400 with 35' of pipe go for $5900 with the option of the extra 65' of pipe for $6400.

As I was reading that statement of adding the foam after, the same thought hit me.

Did you look at any of the indoor gasification boilers? I like the idea of not going outside, less wood consumption but I would have to add a chimney.

 

[hockeypuck]

outside

I wanted to get the mess outside, not in my garage, but outside. Wood gassification boilers are more expensive, but use less wood. The problem still is you have to bring the wood you are burning indoors. I burnt two chords of wood this year that I never wood have brought indoors. Huge pine log butts, that you never would have fit in a gassification furnace. The time I save by cutting my wood into 2 foot lengths or longer depending on the diameter has also been factored into my view of my owb. I just got a truck load (12 chords) of tree length wood from a friend for a small trucking fee because it was a mix of hard and soft wood, some of it punky but most (80percent) will be great. It was a small clearing job that he did and he just wanted to get it out of the land owners yard. An indoor furnace is still an indoor wood stove. Fire and smoke still an issue indoors. Might as well go pellet. JMHO.

One thing to consider is if you like to travel during the winter. I am married with two small kids, so we usually stick close to home so keeping the boiler filled is not a problem ( I have an employee who tends it if I am gone a night or two). The point being you do have another concern if you leave (same as if you had a cat or dog) so besure that have a game plan if you have to leave or like to go on vacation in the winter time.

As far as going outside, the most I had to fill it up was twice a day. I would fill it before I left for work and when I got home (no later than 6:00). I could even fill it before the sun went down during january with out a problem.

 

[ktm250rider]

Yup, thought of the traveling or down time situation. I was figuring on having a circulater that I could use to circulate water from out current propane boiler to keep the lines and tank from freezing. This would also run the house when we were away. Not that that happens too often as well. The only thing i need to figure is where to measure the water temp to trigger the pump to circulate. I would then use a setpoint controller with the temp prob run to the contorller in the basement where i could monitor the temp.

 

[hockeypuck]

circulator on owb

You would have to run a low voltage line as well as a line voltage out to your owb. The line voltage would have to be switched from normal operation (always on) to being controlled by a low voltage contact (plumbing in an aquastat at the boiler) to turn on the indoor boiler as well as the circulator. It could be done, and I am sure there are other on this site who have done something like this.

 

[johnb]

leaves for heat

Raked the yard yesterday filled the Hardy OWB with leaves, twiggs, some wet hay. Got enough to load her for the next week. It's been 50 to 60 during the day but chilly at night. Got the house thermostat at 70 just comfortable this time of year. I have had no heating bill this year, ie oil, gas of any kind. Accept fuel for the chainsaws. Don't be a fraid of Stainess steel, when it comes to heat applications stainless is used frequently. stay warm the Hoosier!!