Woods Ported 441 carb question?

[Andrew Wellman]

First its not a race saw, but not stock.

The carb h jet will not close off, I replaced the jet and inspected the seat, nailpolished the welch plug. Never leans out, or lean stalls at speed when h is closed off.

This is the saw
441 with 52mm NWP top end.
Cut squish and base to get 200 psi
Final numbers,
Squish .025
Ex 100
tran 126
in 80

widen ex to 65% of bore
left intake width alone, lowered and squared
raised upper trans, sweep 2mm to intake
Nothing to strato ports
Nothing to trans lower

Saw Runs great and strong, but does not tach above 32000.
Runs cool to warm in wood, scientific, my hand over the exit from the fins.

When H is closed shutting down the fuel
What is the set screw on the strato lever used for?

I posted this in "Chainsaws" and came up blank.

 

[Moparmyway]

Saw Runs great and strong, but does not tach above 32000.
.

Thats gotta be a typo !
I saw your post in the other area ............ for fear of getting wolloped I stayed quiet, but since youre askin again ............(its allmost a year)
I had the same thing happen on my 046 .......... went for a new carb and never looked back, problem gone.
PS- I tried to rebuild that carb twice, had a few dudes try to tell me that the saw had too much compression and was pulling the gas out of the carb (I laughed real good at that one) .......

Have you eliminated this problem yet ?
What was it ?

 

[WHSH]

Yes, typo. funny. The h jet carb seat was damaged, so I replaced it with a good used carb. Runs awsome now. 441 carbs are easy to find. Most early 441 blew up and become spare parts. The compression this is wrong and funny.

 

[Moparmyway]

Still @ 200 psi ??
What mix ratio do you run on your saws ?

 

[WHSH]

I don't know, but the owners says it rips and I spoke with him a month ago, so I am assuming its holding just fine. He runs royal purple mix oil at 50:1. My shop can is I run 60:1 amsoil saber, 93oct e10 with star tron. I run ethanol free in the summer when I can get it. I would run Aviation gas but its expensive and dumb for me to set up saws for customers that wont use it. If I set my saw tuning to this 60:1 mix then when a customer runs 50:1 synthetic or 40:1 fossil the tune will be still good and it will have plenty of protection. I know there is a ton of opinions on this, I am not claiming i have the answer or the correct way of doing it. Its just what has worked for me and what I like. I have a customer that I set a stock Stihl 361 up for. I tuned for 60:1 and he is running on 70:1 amsoil. The saw has about half its live left in it when I got it to service. Orginal rings, seals and bearings. He teaches game of logging, forestry and logging. He came back to me for a general service after 100hrs of use and i now have it in the shop. I was a very curious to see the condition of the bearings and rings. I have a bore scope and I looked at the cylinder wall, perfect, the compression was 170psi, bearings were smooth with no play. The compression was better than I remember it was. I also have milled wood with vintage saws using 60:1 amsoil saber with no ill effect. Now that said if you saw is tuned correctly, hot with a decent 4 stroke out of wood and with medium pressure it cleans up, the 60:1 is ample lube. Its when you lean the fuel out and run 60:1 you are asking for trouble. Cooling mainly comes from the concentration fresh air and fuel mix entering and the oil, the oil helps cool by limiting friction but I believe is secondary. Again, its just my opinion that is all. I have seen others like a 32:1 with residual in the crank case. I have read and read and read, tech articles on two stroke mx bikes regarding this topic and try to skip the forum static on this topic for my info.

 

[Moparmyway]

I understand your viewpoint totally !!
I also dont like running oxygenated fuel, but have to when I tune all saws (except mine and those that run non-eth fuel). I keep them on the rich side (fuel wise) just in case some ethanol is 15% instead of 10%. Seen it happen lots of times around here, tune a saw,send it out, they say that they just got new gas and burned the saw ......... test the gas and find 18% ethanol.

Personally I run Echo synthetic @ 32:1 (plus a little Marvel Mystery Oil) with 110 octane race gas in all of my 2 cycle stuff. Its leaded, and I am going to order from VP next (their non-eth and no lead 94 octane) in a 5 gallon jug. I have some 2 cycle stuff thats over 20 years old with well over 1000 hrs - and they all look new inside when pulled apart. I ran Lawnboy oil before Echo came out with theirs, working on OPE since JR High, it was easy to see who ran their mixes @ 32:1 and who tried stretching the mix. I never tried Amsol yet, the Echo is easily gotten @ HD. I tell all of my customers to run @ 32:1, they are big dudes and make their own decisions, but I cant remember ever opening up a 32:1 piece of equipment inside and finding it shot. Allways wet and looking great !!

 

[WHSH]

Were do you get the race gas at 110? That means you can run an engine above 10:1 compression ratio, hmmm, if only the cranks can handle it. 32:1 to one if your stuff is tuned to it you will have no problems and yes, very cheap insurance for your customers. Plus you can have one can for your MX bike and power tools. Take a beater saw, mix a gallon of amsoil saber at 60:1 and tune it like you do and just beat the hell out of it and try to get it to throw up. I think that is a good test for the oil. With the super premium mix oils, bel ray, amsoil, royal purple, there is no mystery to why it works well, first its noticably thicker and the base oils are better. I am going to do a test this summer with a wild thing or wood shark and run 70:1 with the goal of killing it. If I do from the mix then I will change my plan. I know that mx folks say that the increases oil of 32:1 helps rings seal and make better compression. Ah well, to many sides to this conversation. The only thing I find with rich mix is carbon on the exhaust and piston crown.

 

[Moparmyway]

Station near me sells CAM II. 110 low lead non ethanol. They sell it 8-9 months out of the year and I usually grab 30 gallons at the end of the summer. It usually holds me over untill they sell it again.

Thanks for your comment on you -tube ! Coming from you it means alot

 

[mdavlee]

With good bike oils I haven't noticed a great deal of build up in the exhaust port. Certain oils leave a film on the piston crown and I can live with that.

 

[WHSH]

Can you ship that fuel to me threw the post? I would run it in my personal saws and for those hard core geeks that I build saws for. The rest of the customers will get their saws tuned for pump gas, startron and syn mix oil. Even still this will be way better than the 3 year old e10, non ethanol treated, water/ethanol stratified, cloudy, junk yard smelling, dollar store mix oil at blistering wrong ratio, fuel that they will actually use. I and hear the phone call dialog in my head, "Uh, yeah, it was running great for about a tank then it just quite, and would not start". This it will be followed by "this is my first husky/stihl/dolmar/echo, mac, makita, homelite blah, blah blach and I will never buy one again". This plea will come in late october with not a stick of wood in there a pile and expectating that the sky to open and the chainsaw jesus put his hand on the saw to heal it for free. I will ask them about the fuel, they will mumble a little, and act like I'm speaking pig latin. The cherry on the top will be that the tank will be filled with perfectly mixed fesh fuel. Any one had this experience?

 

[Moparmyway]

Can you ship that fuel to me threw the post? I would run it in my personal saws and for those hard core geeks that I build saws for. The rest of the customers will get their saws tuned for pump gas, startron and syn mix oil. Even still this will be way better than the 3 year old e10, non ethanol treated, water/ethanol stratified, cloudy, junk yard smelling, dollar store mix oil at blistering wrong ratio, fuel that they will actually use. I and hear the phone call dialog in my head, "Uh, yeah, it was running great for about a tank then it just quite, and would not start". This it will be followed by "this is my first husky/stihl/dolmar/echo, mac, makita, homelite blah, blah blach and I will never buy one again". This plea will come in late october with not a stick of wood in there a pile and expectating that the sky to open and the chainsaw jesus put his hand on the saw to heal it for free. I will ask them about the fuel, they will mumble a little, and act like I'm speaking pig latin. The cherry on the top will be that the tank will be filled with perfectly mixed fesh fuel. Any one had this experience?

Laughing my arse off ........... just happened last week to me with a newly ported 046. Only difference was he admitted to "messing" with the screws to try to make it run slower. "H" jet was just less than 1/4 turn from all the way in.

I could ship the gas, but I think it would be easier for us both if you just ordered the VP 94 non-eth direct from VP.
They arent a sponsor here, so I cant post the link, but go to their website and order the 4 cycle fuel, then mix in your desired oil

 

[WHSH]

Just kidding about the gas, thanks anyways. I though that my above rant might be a common experience. What do you say about starting a post about the strangest and funniest shop with customers experience and or the other side, a customers with shop experience. No real names really or mean spirited stuff.