Woodworking question.

[fishhuntcutwood]

This isn't directly chainsaw related, but there's a bunch of guys on here who work with cut wood, and I couldn't find a forum on here that would better address this so here goes...

Other than a kiln, what's the best way to dry wood without it splitting or cracking? I cut flat rounds (conventional, cross grain cut) of cedar, about 2"-3" thick, intent on someday making tables, bar stools, foot stools, whatever out of them and don't want them to crack as I dry them. What's the best way to go about this? I've been told to just leave them in the garage in a dry place, and yesterday a guy told me about some kind of aging oil he puts on them to keep them supple while they dry out.

And help here?

Take care all,
Jeff

 

[Gypo Logger]

Felling the tree and leaving the leaves on till the needles/leaves are brown is the best and fastest way to dry wood in the log form. This process can take as little as one week in the hot weather. Otherwise drying lumber in a well ventilated shed or barn is the best. Also microwaving chunks of wood for turning also works.
John

 

[thompson1600]

I don't cut and dry the rounds, but I've cut quite a bit of hardwoods (maple, walnut, ash, oak, etc) into boards and air dried them. I mill them with my chainsaw mill.

I paint the ends of the logs before milling. Then mill the logs, usually the same day I cut them down. if I want 1 inch thick (4 quarter) usable stock, then I cut it to about 1 1/4 or 1 1/2" thick to compensate for any warping, twisting and shrinking that will occur. After it's milled I have an area set up with cement blocks to keep the wood off the ground and then sticker (using scrap wood about 1" x 1" to keep air circulating between the boards) the boards in a pile. I lightly cover with a tarp to allow for air circulation and check on them occassionally but generally the rule of thumb for air drying outside is that it will take about 1 year per inch of thickness to be down to a stable usable moisture content. Goes quicker if I put them in my heated shop, but them they will sometimes crack more too.

A shed or kiln would be nice, but I don't have that, so I use the outdoor air drying method.

Tom

 

[fishhuntcutwood]

Thanks guys. I'll just keep them out in my shop. I had heard the one year per inch guideline before, so it must be pretty good advice.

Thanks again.

Take care all,
Jeff

 

[woodshop]

Fish I mill between 3 and 4000 bd ft of hardwood a year, and air dry all of it. That one inch per year rule is a VERY general one, and rarely does it hold true. Depends on lots of other variables like

- type of wood
- how thick are boards
- what time of the year was it cut
- what time of year are you trying to dry it

I milled a live poplar tree the day I dropped it, sliced it into 1 1/8 boards and stickered it in a back yard with just a tarp over top few boards. In 5 weeks it was all down to less than 20% moisture content. At three months it was 15% (about best you can get outside on east coast in summer) and thus dry enough to work it in my woodshop, I turned a few of the boards into couple hundred 1 x 1 1/4 stickers.

I found that 1 year per inch rule to be very non-linear. If a 1 inch board of a species is 15% MC in 6 months, a 2 inch board will usually take MUCH longer than twice that. A 3 inch plank takes forever to dry completely all the way through, especially if its a dense hardwood.

Most important things to get right are drying where there is some air flow through your stack, but not TOO much, and even consistent stickering on a solid base that can take the weight. Enclosed is a pic of what I am talking about.

Dave

 

[Dr_dewey]

drying wood

I'm not a CS wizz, but do a lot of bowl turning starting from green wood, so i might offer some advice.

Some say anchorseal is a good way to coat the wet wood and let it air dry, this has worked on a few round cuts ranging from 1" thick to 2" thick and about 12" round. I say a few as i made about 10 and obly one survived. Anchorseal is a wax emulsion. latex has also been mentioned.

For my "good bowls" i will rough turn them to about 10% thickness, so a 1 ft round blank would have a 1" thick wall or rim. this should work for a slab just the same if its between 1 to 2" thick. Then its wrapped in newspaper. Use a whole section- spread out at the middle, say the business one, and then flip over the piece and wrap again with the sports section. tape it up- I use that 2" wide packing tape, i write the wood type and date, and then store it for 4 to 6 months. If you have an accurate scale trying weighing it after 4 months and note the decrease - repeat at 2 week intervals, when it levels out you should be dry - or at equilibrium to where you stored it.

Gypo mentioned microwaving - never tried it - heard about it, but that fast a drying - would it case harden?? Others say liquid dish detergent is another method- never tried it.

A newer method has been suggested - never tried it - soak it in denatured alcohol for a day and wrap in newspaper, not as much as above, but allow it to breathe a bit, the wood should be able to be worked in 2 weeks or so. The theory is the DNA absorbs some water in the wood and forces the rest out!!

regards

Ray

oh ya - MS260 Stihl.

 

[Bill G]

fishhuntcutwood,

How much lumber are you wanting to dry ? If you are talking about only a small amount then you can build your own kiln. What does it take to dry lumber; removal of moisture (dehumidification). How is this accomplished heat, air flow, and evaporation. You can build your own small kiln with a heater, fans, and a dehumidifier. I am sure many members here have a Nyle or similar kiln. That is basically their design. We had a small 4000 bd/ft unit for awhile. There is nothing you could not do yourself much cheaper and on a small scale. As for the cracking that has been addressed earlier but obviously experience and speed have a major affect on cracking.

Bill

 

[fishhuntcutwood]

Bill- I think "lumber" is too strong a word for what I'm doing. I've just got some (and will have more) cedar ends- 2"-3" flat rounds cut from stumps or the end of felled trees. I just quite simply like the profile of cedars, the way they smell, and what I can do with them later on- furniture, tables, clocks, whatever. I just don't want to stockpile 30 of them, and have them all crack on me. I never thought of making my own kiln though. What kind of temps are we talking here? Could a little space heater in an enclosed shed do the trick? I even had some in my house to see how they would fare, and half of them cracked. I understand that each section will dry differently, according to it's grain density, humidity, and I suppose even the pattern of the grain itself, whereas a simpler grain would dry with less cracking than a grain with several direction changes, twists and turns.

Thanks guys.
Take care all,
Jeff

 

[woodshop]

Fish by "flat round" do you mean a cookie?

 

[trimmmed]

This isn't directly chainsaw related, but there's a bunch of guys on here who work with cut wood, and I couldn't find a forum on here that would better address this so here goes...

Other than a kiln, what's the best way to dry wood without it splitting or cracking? I cut flat rounds (conventional, cross grain cut) of cedar, about 2"-3" thick, intent on someday making tables, bar stools, foot stools, whatever out of them and don't want them to crack as I dry them. What's the best way to go about this? I've been told to just leave them in the garage in a dry place, and yesterday a guy told me about some kind of aging oil he puts on them to keep them supple while they dry out.

And help here?

Take care all,
Jeff

Well, you've gotten alot of good drying advice, very little of it however is applicable to what you want to do. The direction of grain in your cuttings is opposite the way "regular wood" is cut and dried. You will be leaving the pith in the center and at three inches thick, it'll have enough size to crack what it wants. I would cut plenty of extras, be prepared for losses, and anchorseal them twice. Put them away and wait. You can stabilize them with various treatments, but keep in mind that the chemicals cost $$. Dipping in PEG may be reasonably affordable, but alcohol, nelsonite etc might not be, It will depend on what you can sell your stuff for.

Stay away from a kiln. There is no drying schedule for a slab of 90% endgrain with the pith in it It will also be difficult to find a microwave big enough to do anything larger than novelty size stuff(And, I don't think it works for that all too good)

I personally would not make anything to structural from cookies, particularly not a seat or stool.

It would help with drying and structure if you cut these slices on a bias. You will end up with a more oval shape but it will be stronger and dry better since you are greatly reducing the end grain. Also, finding a wood type that is the most condusive to drying problem free, would be a big help.

 

[woodshop]

Fish didn't know you were talking about cookies, sorry. Trimmed is right on target, no easy way to dry a cookie. I've done small ones by dipping whole thing in molten wax, then wrap in newspaper and wait couple YEARS as it slowly dries, and even then every third one will be cracked. Depends on species too. I actually had some small cookies of ceder (eastern whiteceder) dry nicely, made into coasters.

Dave

 

[redprospector]

Fishhuntcutwood,
I have a little experience in what you are doing, I was using Juniper but I think it would be similar to cedar. The first thing I learned was if you cut your pieces at an angle, you cut your chances of splitting way down (the steeper the angle the better, but at least 15 degree). Stack them with stickers between them (as someone else stated) so air can flow between them. The slower you dry them the better off they'll be, don't let them get too warm (not hard this time of year). When you apply a finish, don't finish the back side. I have never finished both sides of a disc that it didn't split.
Hope this helps.

 

[Tom Dunlap]

Since there is a lot of movement taking place in rounds you want the wood to dry very slowly. Building a sweat box will help. If you have a few to dry, plastic bags will work fine. If you have lots, plastic sheeting wrapped and sealed around the pile will help. No matter what you do there will be a lot of scrap.

Find a copy of "Understanding Wood" from Taunton Press, the folks that publish Fine Woodworking, Homebuilding and other Fine... magazines.

A company that sells a lot of plates, bowls etc. cut from rounds, Bowls by Joel or Boards by Joel, was at the MN Renassaince {sp?] Fest. I talked with the owner and he said that they cut the trees in mid-winter. The wood is the most stable and has the least moisture content. Cutting then will help you to keep the bark on. They stack them on edge in racks like a plate draining rack at the sink in a barn loft.

A while ago there was a great thread on this site about drying rounds. I don't know how deep their archives are or how good the search engine is. You could repost the question.

http://www.woodweb.com/Forums/FMsawdry.html

 

[fishhuntcutwood]

Sorry guys, I hadn't heard the term "cookie" before. But yeah, that sounds like what I'm talking about. I really do appreciate all the info here. I just like cuttig wood, and when I'm out for firewood or whatever, I see stumps and downed trees that I can cut on, and in doing so, I'd accumulated all these cookies, and hated to see them go to waste because I didn't know how to dry them properly.

Thanks again.
Take care all,
Jeff

 

[Dr_dewey]

drying rounds

I would question the use of plastic bags as it may hold the moisture too much and allow mould and fungus growth. But then i'm doing the same with some that have been soaked in Polycryl. Lots of newspaper layers retard the drying process. i tried about 7 disks of 12" ambrosia maple 2" thick and only got 1 with no crack with anchorseal. Using old melted candlewax applied to wet wood surface , 1 its doesn't hold well, 2 they cracked.

Oysters, are made from thin slices at an angle, and then press dried, these make very nice accents on fine furniture.





Proud runner of MS 260 Stihl,

 

[woodshop]

Using old melted candlewax applied to wet wood surface , 1 its doesn't hold well, 2 they cracked.

Proud runner of MS 260 Stihl,

...When I seal the ends of small stuff I want to save, like dogwood or boxwood, I always use wax, and it does stick to wet wood IF you get it real hot first. I use a #10 can sitting on an electric hotplate and wait till the stuff is so hot smoke starts to come off of it. (careful here, very hot wax is real flammable). When you drop the end of a wet piece in it, there is a fizzling sound like when you stick hot metal in water. Hold it in the wax for a few seconds, pull it out and let drip for 5 seconds and then that coating is ON there, nice and tight. Only thing that happens sometimes is as the wood shrinks, the wax gets a bit loose and sometimes will peel off, but at that point the wood is dry anyway, and the wax has done its job of not letting that wood dry too quickly.

Dave

 

[Tom Dunlap]

Plastic bags are a pretty standard practice for slowing the drying process. My Dad turned wood for many years and had cords of wood in bags or plastic wrapped. He had a source for candle ends too. Those would go into the double boiler and be used to coat some of the smaller stuff.

If you understand how kiln drying works you'll understand that the bagging mimics the first part of the kiln drying. Gradually raise temps with higher humidity to keep the tension of the wood stable. Gradually, let the humidity go down.

He would sometimes rough turn pieces then dry them in the microwave. Kind of like thawing a roast. Higher temp then off to cool and stabilize then heat/cool. Mom used to get a little tight-jawed when the wood was stinky. I suggested that he buy a flea market micro for the shop to keep the peace

The molds never made any difference. They would be on the surface only. Unless he was experimenting with forcing spalting. In that case he'd take a bucket for small stuff, bag the biguns, toss in some soil and sawdust, wet it down and let it cook. He came up with some interesting pieces and even more firewood