Working down a spar

[heartland]

Greetings,

I'm new to climbing and have a few questions. If this is not the right forum for newbie questions, please advise so I don't clutter things up.

In the meantime, here is my question: When working down a spar without stubs, I understand how to secure the running bowline to the top of the spar. What is not clear is how the lifeline is connected to the saddle: Can a figure 8 be used here?

Continuing on, let's say you decide to work down the spar using "cut and throw". How do you move the bowline to a lower position on the spur? I realize that the bowline can be loosened with the running end of the rope and thereby lowered. The part I'm uncertain about is how to secure myself while that is happening... seems pretty risky to depend soley on my lanyard and climbers at that time.

Hope that makes sense. Any insight is appreciated. And again, I apologize up front if my newbie questions belong on another forum.

Thanks in advance

 

[treeman82]

I personally just work my way down on my spikes and 2 lanyards. Depending on the diameter of the spar, I may wrap my lanyard around the spar for added security. Another way to do what you are talking about is to choke off on the spar with a running bowline and then use your split tail... however you have to watch out for that if you should need to bail out. The new thing is the cambium saver lanyard. This will choke off on the spar should you need to bail out for whatever reason, and I would assume is fairly mobile in the tree when positioning.

 

[Stumper]

Heartland, Welcome to the forum. You have come to the right place. You can find a ton of info by doing searches in this forum. By way of answer to your question. There are many safe ways to rig your lines while blocking down a spar on gaffs. I doubt that anyone here is using a fig 8 in there set up though. The simplest way to secure your self from falling in case you should gaff out is simply to make a full wrap on the spar with your lanyard. "Deadmanned in" in this way you will not slide down the spar-the 360* wrap of rope will lock on the trunk. You should definitely be double tied. If you adopt a split tail system for your lifeline it is very easy to use it as a second lanyard. For quick descent without your gaffs and no stubs you will need a friction saver or some sort of mechanical tie in point. Personally I do not rig such a system while blocking down a spar but I do have the tools on my belt (slings and 'biners) with which to improvise such should I need it. If you are now thoroughly confused try searching for any unfamiliar terms. You will find a wealth of info. Someone else will probably weigh in soon if they haven't already while I was typing.

 

[Stumper]

Yep! 82 wins the "fastest fingers "award.

 

[treeman82]

I do try.

 

[ORclimber]

What the other guys said and when using fliplines and hooks make sure your fliplines are level or angled down away from you so you don't accidentally cut yourself out of the tree. I always use steel core fliplines when chunking out a spar for piece of mind, unless I'm working around power lines. Also make sure your ground help has your back and will get your attention if your cutting toward your flipline.

 

[treeclimber165]

Yup, there are many ways to tie in while chunking down a spar. I also use two lanyards (or my lanyard and then my lifeline choked around the trunk like a lanyard). Like ORclimber said, keep your lanyard low enough to not get cut. I use my lanyard for support about waist high and choke my lifeline around the spar a couple inches lower for backup. God forbid, if my lanyard ever gets cut AND I kick out I could only slip a few inches before my lifeline would catch me.

I don't use the running bowline on the spar until I'm ready to descend and drop the spar from the ground. I do not use a running bowline for life support while blocking down the spar while I'm still off the ground.

 

[heartland]

How do you "choke the lifeline"?

 

[Graeme]

Tim

Grab it realy tight and hold it for a count of 50

 

[TheTreeSpyder]

Graeme your not supposed to tell how we make True Blue, with your Samson strength!

i think that a round turn, rather than just slapping lifeline around the spar as an ordinary lanyard gives 'choke'. With a split tail climbing system, you can have a huge adjustable lanyard, this gives ya enough line to loop around the spar. A typical lanyard, attatches as a 'basket' (with 2 legs of support) formation in sling terminology, a running bowline would be a choke that trades off strength loss (with one leg of support, as in sling), for a choking grab, powered and thereby naturally adjusted to the weight, by the weight itself . A round turn basket formation combines both strength and choking grab on the spar at a cost of more line, which is now available with the huge lifeline/lanyard. The round turn chokes the spar, dead manning you into place, so if you black out all at once even, it has you positively pasted in place. Sometimes i have this loop as low as my knees, no chance of cutting it there! Then that strategy also leaves some slack, for less adjustmeant before enabling repositioning.

I would leave my lanyard high as possible to keep me close to the spar for easiest working, uncldinng as much 'sit' as possible, somwtimes ysing font D('s) for lanyard; and have it too adjustable, even if an ordinary lanyard gets an added friction hitch with karab etc. But positively clear of the saw, like it was my only attatchment point. Thus giving a failsafe setup, for when you start that saw, your chances are akin to what the drill seargeant screamed to the newbies/booties in GI Jane...

"....You're going to war, always have a backup, 2 is 1, and 1 is none!...."

In repositioning, you might take your lanyard, and simply let it slide down on top of your lifeline/lanyard or disconnect the lanyard from one side. Sometimes on even and smoother spars i can just kinda climb down on my spurs while shaking the lifeline/lanyard with my hips a bit here and there to slide the lifeline/lanyard smoothly down, yet still in a deadman position for total attatchmeant (yeah i know, not attatch-meant) in case of surprise. Other times i might hold the choke open with both hands as i reposition in flipline/lanyard style. Both strategies also leave enough slack for working over stobs etc. The lifeline/lanyard is usually more time consuming to adjust, redo than lanyard; so that i try to minimize that with slack and moving lifeline/lanyard whole and adj/redo lanyard more as an option.

Originally posted by heartland


Continuing on, let's say you decide to work down the spar using "cut and throw". How do you move the bowline to a lower position on the spur? I realize that the bowline can be loosened with the running end of the rope and thereby lowered. The part I'm uncertain about is how to secure myself while that is happening... seems pretty risky to depend soley on my lanyard and climbers at that time.

i don't think that you'd be moving down far enough for that, especially with these tecniques, especially working smaller chunks. With an extra line some do something like that with a remote release on the bowline loop, to descnd 10' etc., using it for travel, cutting the face and lacing up etc., just make sure ya pull the bowline choke open and sliding down that support line before backcutting! That can really help in putting a nice face in a larger/harder to position/ cut spar. But, their are some reservations, on single line descent, especially over distance on some friction hitches, as in a single line descent with lifeline choked by a runing bowline in it's own tail.

 

[mikecross23]

I use a long loop runner and biner choked around the spar and clipped in to my front D rings for back up fall protection. Climb the tree normal w/ gaffs and lanyard, when I'm ready to start cutting, I choke the tree w/ the loop runner, clip in and leave it low and out of the way w/ a little slack in it. When you need to move up or down, just open up the choked loop runner w/ the slack and slide it up or down. It also can acts as a second lanyard and gives me the peace of mind that I will not fall. I don't like taking an extra wrap w/ my lanyard b/c it's hard for me to keep both ends the same lenght and i have a harder time getting it to open up and slide up or down. When ready to come down I choke the tree w/ a running bowline and come down on my figure 8.

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

1. Double flipline with one set down farther, wrapped around the spar.
2. flipline and climbing line used in the above configuration
3. Tie-in to adjacent tree
4. useing ckoked adjustable friction saver as shown in tha Sherrill catalog
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   This is the best way for rescue in case of injury, weather self or assisted rescue. By using a single connection, you will also take the saddle out of the loop in case of barberschair

 

[ORclimber]

A good rule of thumb for flipline adjustment to have the most balance is to be just far enough from the trunk that if you stick your arm out to the trunk with a clenched fist your knuckles brush the bark. This doesn't work on skinny stuff or leaners.


Angling that flipline up is risky. How do you know the flipline isn't hung up on a stub or on uneven bark. If the wood is big enough you can't see the other side of the spar by leaning to one side you'd have to walk around and check every time. What if you just hit a nail and your saw is dishing.

 

[tshanefreeman]

Heartland,

Everyone else has yet again done a great job of showing you all the safe and practical ways of working down a spar............... so I won't comment on this.

However, you were talking about tying off with a running bowline and coming down with a figure-8.........

When I'm working down and have reached the point where I feel comfortable dropping the spar, I will tie on a tag line, typically with a clove hitch backed up with two half hitches or a running bowline. I then rig up my figure-8 to the same line that is to be used as the tag, thus allowing me to quickly decend out of the tree. Therefore, I kill two birds with one stone. As a sidenote, I feel that the figure-8 should always hang from a climbers belt, this way if an emergency should ever arise, the climber is one step in the right direction for a quick and safe decent! But unless I'm recreationally footlocking or doing the above mentioned decent, my figure-8 seldomly gets used.................for there is the potential that you could still drop if the tail were let loose.

 

[treeman82]

Shane, while I hate to admit it... I am with you on descending on my rigging line. I don't do it all the time, but if I am working with a 5/8" double braid line which is in good condition I will use that instead of my 1/2" climbing line in conjunction with my figure 8. I also always keep a figure 8 on my saddle, it's on the very back though.

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

Now we're telling newbies that it's alright to climb on a rigging line???

heartdude,
If you are fairly new to climbing, and you want to get old climbling, develop SAFE working habits and stick to them, even if it takes a few seconds(or minutes) to set up. Don't ever climb on rigging lines.

One trick I saw performed removing a spar, was to tie your climbing line to the top of the spar with a running bowline, then use a munter hitch or figure 8 just below your climbing hitch. This takes most of the load off the hitch and allows it to run smoothly.
Being secured to the top of the spar makes it easy to get your lanyard set up properly, move the lowering block and lines, and cut a notch.
You can also leave a long tail on the bowline, long enough to reach from the next position, to make it easier to loosen. If you are dropping a 6 foot chunk, why not leave a 3 foot tail?

 

[Eric E.]

When working a spar I prefer to have an escape route to the ground. This would be very helpful in case of rescue as JPS pointed out. The two attachment points are for added saftey but what happens if a bad accident occurs? With some of the methods mentioned a rescue could be very difficult. Ever think how difficult it would be to get an injured climber down when they are hanging on a lanyard? How are you going to lower an injured climber? How do you cut a steelcore lanyard if needed during a rescue? There are many other questions to think about.

I remember years ago a climber in Boston, hung inverted from his lanyard for a few hours before the fire dept. could get him down. I believe there was injury from hanging that long but, To make things worse when he inverted the harness pulled his pants down to his knees. Underwear included! Worse yet it was winter on a busy street with lots of observers.

Think about how a rescue would go if you are seriously injured or unconscious.

Don't get caught with your pants down.

 

[TREETX]

There are trees in Plano??

 

[heartland]

Well, there are trees in Plano - but not big ones by ya'lls standards. They are good trees for me cause I'm new to all this. Haven't climbed into anything too intimidating yet. Good to have a healthy fear of things though

 

[Kevin]

Tim;
Do you have any good reference material to read other than the forum?