You gotta have nerve (and smarts) in this business!

[JohnVander]

I started a big job today. It's removing 8 red alders, 40 to 65 feet, tight yard, most of them leaners (towards the house ), the biggest 6 feet around at the base. I started out by setting lines in an ajacent tree with my big shot, one to swing branches away from the hot tub, and one for me. I decided that it would be good to limb up my rope tree a bit, so my lines wouldn't get tangled up when climbing up the tree I was going to take out first. My rope tree is the worst leaner and and not as thick at the base as some of the others, yet it stays thick most of the way up (a fair amount of weight not centered over the base!). I limbed this tree up about 30 feet, and should have gone another 5 but I got scared! The tree started waving around as I climbed it and I just lost my nerve. I climbed down relaxed for a second and started up the bigger tree I was intending to take out, removing branches untill I was level with the safety line crotch. I then decided that I needed to reset my safety line into a higher crotch, on a different tree than my branch rope, I climbed down and my partner said we need to go (we started late and needed to leave early).
The thing that bothers me is that the tree I got scared in, was that is was a live tree! Leaves all the way to the top! I generally feel good in trees.... untill... they freekin start moving around. I decided that I'm going to tie off the rigging tree to another when I take it out. If you guys have any thoughts or advise I'd appreciate it. My safety setup is a Gibbs acender attached to my floating D with a caribenier.

Thanks
John

 

[MasterBlaster]

You gotta expect some movement in a tree, my man.

Remember that Sherrill pic? Its for real!

 

[TreeJunkie]

Originally posted by JohnVander
My safety setup is a Gibbs acender attached to my floating D with a caribenier.

Thanks
John

Are you describing your lanyard set up? You arent' climbing on that ascender solely are you>?
Why do you need to be tied into a different tree than you are climbing? Are they dead? Are you wearing spurs?

 

[Stumper]

John, The combo of leaner and stripping the tree as you moved up was pretty much guaranteed to give you movement. Even if the base is stable, the lean means that your weight gets multiplied by leverage and removing the lower branches eliminated a lot of mass dampening effect. Guying the tree back against the lean may or may not give you a lot more actual stability but it can inspire a lot more confidence if you KNOW that a couple of ropes are there that will NOT allow that tree to fall.
There is no shame in getting nervous about tree wobble-it scares the wadding out of me.:angel:

 

[treeman82]

If you are really worried, bring a descent drill, with a long thin bit when you go back. Drill into the tree in a few places to check for rot. You are removing it anyways... you could also use a mallet to thump the trunk. You might also want to dig around the base with a trowel or shovel if you are really afraid that the thing is going to go over with you.

 

[JohnVander]

Master Blaster:
When does some, become too much? Did I tell you it was a leaner (4 past 12), and thick? I do know though, that I have to get over this fear.

John

P.S. what Sherrill pic?

 

[JohnVander]

Treeman:
What does rot sound like?

John

 

[MasterBlaster]

A dull thud.

 

[murphy4trees]

Go tap on a hollow tree and find out...

 

[JohnVander]

To Tree Junky:
I am using spikes, and a lanyard (wirecore). The trees are live but seem brittle (are you familliar with red alder?). I rigged into a different tree because I wanted to swing branches away from the drop zone. I put my saftey into another tree because I have a fear of trees breaking (I'm a beginer in higher work).

John

 

[JohnVander]

To Stumper:

Thanks, your answer helped me understand why the wobble seemed to increase. The tree is gonna get a couple of ropes now.

John

 

[Tom Dunlap]

Removing the low limbs on the tie in tree makes sense if they are going to be in the way for the rest of the operation.

If they are out of the way. leave them on the tree. The more mass in the lower part of the tree the more stable the tree will be. Basic physics, the larger the mass the more energy is needed to get that mass in motion. Maybe going up and knocking the top out while leaving the low limbs would stablize the tree. Probably too late on this job though.

Guys outs make lots of sense too.

Tom

 

[Guy Meilleur]

Originally posted by JohnVander
Nerve and Smarts...

and Trust! In Boy Scouts we camped in the pine woods. We used to sneak out by starlight and climb to the tiptops and start swinging, a preteen macho contest to see who could swing the widest. I won, but lost--the top broke off in my hands and I fell.
Slid through the branches, held in a feathery embrace, worked my way to the next tree's stem and climbed it to swing again. Since then I've trusted in the strength of trees. Watch em move in storms, make em move while you're at the top, feel their strength. Look at light poles with all the weight and strain they endure.

Next time you remove a hairy one, leave some lower branches on your way up. Damping effect retains stability. And never forget to

I won't mess up THIS thread by asking why the trees came down instead of getting reduced...
"If you guys have any thoughts or advise I'd appreciate it."
Well, I hate to poop on the party but since you asked, next time mitigate the hazard by pruning instead of removing. Save the customer $ and the world needless tree loss, and save yourself some anxiety.

 

[JohnVander]

I've got four more sizeable trees that are untouched, maybe I'll try a three point climb up one of them.

Thanks
John

 

[Nickrosis]

Re: Re: You gotta have nerve (and smarts) in this business!

::: pardon the interruption:::

Originally posted by Guy Meilleur

Guy, you must make a lot of facial expressions when you're talking. And you must have discovered the limit to smileys and pictures per post on your very first day on this site!

:::return to your posts:::
:::nothing to see, nothing to see:::

 

[JohnVander]

To Guy Meilleur:
These tree's are red alder and from what I've observed, and have been told they start to decline after 20 years, the trees are about that age and showing decline. I feel more comfortable packed in around a bunch of conifers myself, but have no such luck this time.

John

 

[ORclimber]

Sounds like you don't know your wood, or how to tie a friction hitch.

It's been suggested before, go work with RBtree. Bribe him with salmon if you have to. It could save your life. At the very least it'll make your life easier.

 

[JohnVander]

To ORclimber

"Sounds like you don't know your wood"

What don't I know (based on my post)? I'd sure like to know, you're the first NW guy to respond (a very valued opinion) and you seem to have a dismissive tone. I'm gonna be up in that tree and RB is not going to be there, are you going to help me or shoot me down.

"or how to tie a friction hitch"

Are you saying I need a Prusik above my Gibbs?

"It's been suggested before, go work with RBtree. Bribe him with salmon if you have to."

I'd like to. I didn't know about the Salmon. I don't know if he has openings.

I also want to say that I'm not some wild ass up in the trees. I try to work smart and safe all the time, you just can't get everything from books.

I don't want to come off as disrespectfull or cocky either. I really value all of your opinions.

John

 

[MasterBlaster]

Originally posted by JohnVander


I also want to say that I'm not some wild ass up in the trees. I try to work smart and safe all the time...

THAT is the most important part, John. Keep that up and your troubles should be minimal. As you get more experience your confidence will increase... no biggie.

 

[Guy Meilleur]

Originally posted by JohnVander
they start to decline after 20 years, the trees are about that age and showing decline.

"Alnus rubra makes a 60-75' tree...champion is 104 x 49'...Used as a short term or nurse tree. Susceptible to windthrow with age AND SIZE." Dirr's manual of woodies.

OK JV you're halfway off the hook now. Reducing size reduces chance of windthrow, so pruning is an option, but on this sp. maybe not the best one. Smart to look at species, from a stewardship:angel: and personal
safety pov.

Age of urban trees depends on care and site...NCSU pathologists call willow oak a 60-yr tree but that doesn't mean we cut em all down at age 59.

Knots are useful but not vital; mb or I would probably do the job with tlh and bowline just fine. Better and easier with other knots maybe but not necessary.

Go ahead and be cocky--toward the tree and altitude, that is. You are of the same species as Charles Lindbergh and Tenzing Norgay and Burbanlk. When you're in the tree with your brain in gear you are Master and Commander.
Nick no extra smilies this time; talk about cocky, I went back to add 5 and lost my first version. :angry2: :blush: :Monkey: