troutfisher
Addicted to ArboristSite
Some of the mix oils have fuel stabilizers in them, maybe that's making a difference. If you're in the St Lawrence Valley you must be close to me, I'm in Massena.
Your thouhts on fuel please
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Some of the mix oils have fuel stabilizers in them, maybe that's making a difference. If you're in the St Lawrence Valley you must be close to me, I'm in Massena.
Fish
Tree Freak
I don't think water/alcohol causes the breakdown to varnish, but I don't think any expert could say for sure, as the fuel recipes likely have changed countless times over the last decade or so...
GitWood
ArboristSite Member
I just stick with 100LL Avgas to be on the safe side. However, in cases where it appears the same gas keeps well one time and not another I'm wondering if the fuel tank on the saw might be a big factor. Anyone notice a difference between an old saw which has a metal fuel tank and one of the newer saws with a plastic tank?
Fish
Tree Freak
So you are suggesting that the varnish may be from a reaction of the fuel with the plastic tanks????
MMMMNNNNN. Maybe.....mmmmmmmmmmmm.could be.........
Seriously, plastics and their solubilty may be something to ponder, good point!
cbolze
ArboristSite Lurker
Milk last longer than gasoline
That is the sad truth. Todays government gasoline is blended to work in modern cars/trucks with compatible closed fuel systems and too heck :angry2: with all the other IC engines. Ethanol is hydroscopic crap that will absorb mosture from the air, which will then cause my pretty tillotson to rust and corrode etc. Todays blends are also high in pH, which when exposed to different materials makes a nice little battery and starts the annode/ cathode galvanic action (Fancy term for corrosion), aluminum, brass, steel, stainless etc. (Side bar: that yellow fuel line they sell is NOT rated for this ethanol, the right material is much more expensive, but that is a whole different thread) All pump gas has some ethanol in it. It's worse/more in the winter as it will not vapor lock like in the summer. Just watch you fuel milage drop in the winter verses summer. E10 is more like E12 in the summer and up to E15 to E16 in the winter. January 1 of this year the ethanol subsidy died, so the price of it will double and hopfully it will just go away (look at the recent gas price increase). Todays gasoline the lighter or more volitile stuff will evporate first (the stuff that lights real quick) leaving the heavy stuff last (the stuff that only burns at higher temperatures), then it gets to stinkin'. This happens in anything that is vented to the atmosphere, small engines and gas cans. The smaller the volume, the quicker it goes bad, like in bowl type carbs, the gas in them turns to crap quickly but the gas in the tank is still good. Add to that the above moisture and corrosion problems. So what can we do? Buy Aviation gas from a small airport as the little cessnas are air cooled carburated engines with all aluminum fuel tanks and there is no way they are going to put this garbage in their tanks. Buy racing fuel with no ethanol. Or third buy small volumes of your local gas from a busy gas station (large turn over). keep your gas cans full, sealed, inside a shed (don't leave outside or on the ground, in the back ou a PU) to avoid mositure absorption. Add fuel stabilzer to straight gas, most 2 stroke mix oils have stabilizer in them. Keep the stuff you use often full of gas, (chainsaws) and stuff you don't drained (generators). I tell people who I work on their stuff that their gas is bad and to buy some fresh. If they don't believe me I tell them to dump it into their car. Hope this helps
Courtney.
That is the sad truth. Todays government gasoline is blended to work in modern cars/trucks with compatible closed fuel systems and too heck :angry2: with all the other IC engines. Ethanol is hydroscopic crap that will absorb mosture from the air, which will then cause my pretty tillotson to rust and corrode etc. Todays blends are also high in pH, which when exposed to different materials makes a nice little battery and starts the annode/ cathode galvanic action (Fancy term for corrosion), aluminum, brass, steel, stainless etc. (Side bar: that yellow fuel line they sell is NOT rated for this ethanol, the right material is much more expensive, but that is a whole different thread) All pump gas has some ethanol in it. It's worse/more in the winter as it will not vapor lock like in the summer. Just watch you fuel milage drop in the winter verses summer. E10 is more like E12 in the summer and up to E15 to E16 in the winter. January 1 of this year the ethanol subsidy died, so the price of it will double and hopfully it will just go away (look at the recent gas price increase). Todays gasoline the lighter or more volitile stuff will evporate first (the stuff that lights real quick) leaving the heavy stuff last (the stuff that only burns at higher temperatures), then it gets to stinkin'. This happens in anything that is vented to the atmosphere, small engines and gas cans. The smaller the volume, the quicker it goes bad, like in bowl type carbs, the gas in them turns to crap quickly but the gas in the tank is still good. Add to that the above moisture and corrosion problems. So what can we do? Buy Aviation gas from a small airport as the little cessnas are air cooled carburated engines with all aluminum fuel tanks and there is no way they are going to put this garbage in their tanks. Buy racing fuel with no ethanol. Or third buy small volumes of your local gas from a busy gas station (large turn over). keep your gas cans full, sealed, inside a shed (don't leave outside or on the ground, in the back ou a PU) to avoid mositure absorption. Add fuel stabilzer to straight gas, most 2 stroke mix oils have stabilizer in them. Keep the stuff you use often full of gas, (chainsaws) and stuff you don't drained (generators). I tell people who I work on their stuff that their gas is bad and to buy some fresh. If they don't believe me I tell them to dump it into their car. Hope this helps
Courtney.
cajunhillbilly
ArboristSite Operative
I just went in the bathroom and got the rubbing alcohol, I put about 1 inch in a clear glass and then hit it with the tap right out the faucet. It mixed with a slight blur but I can hardly tell water is in the glass. I think ethanol is the same way. I don't think its like oil and water. The ethanol absorbs the water, its still in there.
Bailey's Alcohol Tester
Philbert
Philbert
GitWood
ArboristSite Member
I'm no chemist, so I'll have to leave that one up to someone much smarter than I am. But yes, I would think that might be a possibility. I think that another might be that the plastic tank may be permeated by some of the smaller molecules, leaving behind a more concentrated mixture of the other "crap" that is in there. Just my 2 cents.
Fish
Tree Freak
Yes, the truth about the plastics that hold our food/drink/pure water, likely would scare the living poop out of us.......
Our grandchildren may be part of that lawsuit......
Our grandchildren may be part of that lawsuit......
Bret4207
ArboristSite Guru
Thanks guys, you've given me some information to ponder and research at least. The evaporation idea sounds plausible as does the plastic reaction. Makes sense since certain plastics react when fuel is spilled on them.
Troutfisher- Howdy neighbor! I'm over just south of Black Lake. Spent many, many days and night in Massena. Enjoy the ice/rain/snow! It's winter in Northern NY!:mad2:
Troutfisher- Howdy neighbor! I'm over just south of Black Lake. Spent many, many days and night in Massena. Enjoy the ice/rain/snow! It's winter in Northern NY!:mad2:
Fish
Tree Freak
As far as the plastic melting, I coined the term "milkjug effect" several years ago, which is a common sight here in Ky...
Can absolutely destroy a saw.
Can absolutely destroy a saw.
mtfallsmikey
Addicted to ArboristSite
I rehabbed an old JD 111 riding mower sometime ago, put a "clear" (white) gas tank from another old mower on it, the ethanol started to dissolve it, gummed up the carb on the Briggs...
Also likes to eat up less than top quality rubber fuel line as well.
cajunhillbilly
ArboristSite Operative
Real shame they had to put a 3 sticker on the old pumps. Except for a few things it looks like 1975.
user 64030
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I have a friend that swears plastic cans mess w/ gas. He only uses old metal coleman fuel type cans...
I do know (or at least that is what my dealer said) that the "No Spill" brand of fuel tanks just changed their plastic mix. I know the one I have is a different plastic just by look and feel than any other can I have or have seen, It is a more matte finish with a smooth satiny feel versus the more hi-gloss slick feel of the other cans...
dw
Liveliner
ArboristSite Lurker
Newer Product- TruFuel, 93 Octane no ethanol.
Might not be too relevant for the commercial crowd because it is expensive. However, if you have saws that sit a while it may work for you. Tru Fuel comes in quart cans premixed 50-1 or 40-1 with synthetic oil and gasoline. It is 93 octane and has no ethanol. My Stihl dealer filled my new 200T with it. It sells for about $5.00 quart (case of 6 for $30) and can be bought at Home Depot in my area or on line. Once opened the fuel has a 2yr shelf life. If I'm doing a lot of cutting I use the regular stuff but once done and I think the saw will sit I fill with the pricey stuff. Hope to keep my 200T running good for a long time.
Gary in CT (Tree guy wannabe)
Might not be too relevant for the commercial crowd because it is expensive. However, if you have saws that sit a while it may work for you. Tru Fuel comes in quart cans premixed 50-1 or 40-1 with synthetic oil and gasoline. It is 93 octane and has no ethanol. My Stihl dealer filled my new 200T with it. It sells for about $5.00 quart (case of 6 for $30) and can be bought at Home Depot in my area or on line. Once opened the fuel has a 2yr shelf life. If I'm doing a lot of cutting I use the regular stuff but once done and I think the saw will sit I fill with the pricey stuff. Hope to keep my 200T running good for a long time.
Gary in CT (Tree guy wannabe)
(maybe the alcohol is still in there, but they just do not charge you for it . . .)
If you are seriously concerned about plastic gas cans, you can still buy metal, safety cans. Like anything else, the good ones are more expensive ($60 -$70).
OSHA and DOT actually require these for some types of work and transport, so if you are using it commercially, you may want to look into these.
My preference is for the 'Type II' containers that are easier to pour. Note that the smaller diameter spouts are needed to fill chainsaws and most restricted opening gas filler caps on modern cars.
One manufacturer: Justrite Mfg. Co. L.L.C. - Safety products
(select: Safety Containers > Type II Cans For Flammables )
Philbert
All I know for sure is that at my local gas station I can put more than 6 gallons of fuel in my 5 gallon plastic can. Do you think they are screwing me? I quit buying gas there anyway...
