Plunging: Safer for Amateurs?

[Paul Bunions]

Now that I have a saw that functions, I have to get back to work.

I want to ask what pros think of plunge-cutting to prevent barber-chairing and other kinds of splitting problems.

My land is full of oaks, and a lot of them are rotten inside, so they can act a little weird. Also, I have to deal with a lot of leaners, both standing free and caught in other trees.

Ever since I found out about plunge-cutting, I've used it a lot. If I have a tree leaning to the north, for example, I cut across the north side a little bit and beat two wedges into it to keep the cut from closing. This gets rid of the strap on the side the tree will fall toward,so it can't be part of a barber chair. Then I plunge into the west side of the tree and cut until I hit the cut where the wedges are, giving me one big cut most of the way through the tree, with a strap on the south side and wedges on the north to keep the tree up. Then I cut the strap and run like hell, and the tree falls to the north. There is nothing left inside the tree to barber-chair.

Is this a good safe method, or am I deluding myself? It's slow, but I'm not being paid, so it doesn't matter. Sometimes I plunge with a pole trimmer because it puts me farther from the tree and a couple of steps closer to safety.

I really hate felling trees because I'm not confident in my ability to do it the traditional way with a notch. If I try to make a notch, the second cut usually misses the bottom of the first one.

 

[Exophysical]

It seems like the plunge is un-needed from your description. If I want a north leaning tree to fall north I just cut a notch out of the north side, 1/4 to 1/3 of the way through, then make my back cut.

If I want a north leaning tree to fall south, within reason, I make the back cut first, 2/3 of the way through and brace it real good with wedges. Then I cut a notch out of the face leaving a slightly generous hinge and start pounding my wedges. Be real carefull with your face cut, accidently taking out your hinge in this situation would be undesirable to say the least.

Where I will use plunge cuts are when gravity is on my side, but I want to use wedges to make it fall a little more off its line than it probably wants to. Usually cutting my face notch first, then using a partial plunge to leave a portion of the back cut hanging on untill I can get my wedges pounded in.

If you were real worried about a tree falling before you finish the back cut and a possible barber chair, the last method would be good. I do most of my cutting in pretty tight bush where I do need to be fairly accurate, but I am no pro. Probably someone more qualified than myself will chime in, but this has always worked for me.

 

[Paul Bunions]

I'm not ambitious enough to try to make leaning trees go in a new direction. I'm happy if they go wherever they want without hitting me. If it's leaning north, I go with it.

I have no way of getting into a tree to put a rope on it, so that's out. I'm not going to climb a tree at my age, and I don't know if a ladder is a good idea for a person who works alone.

 

[Philbert]

Plunge cutting is a valuable technique to know, including how to do correctly, to avoid kickback.

Good for resolving leaners, to avoid potential barber chairs, etc. Strongly promoted by ‘Game of Logging’ training.

It’s one tool. Good to have multiple tools. Good to have the right tool for the right application.

Philbert

 

[Coralillo Lo Pro]

Notching is the most basic technique, there's little point in felling if you haven't mastered notching. Like Philbert says, good to have multiple tools. Fundamentals of General Tree Work is a good book to have to get a good sense of all the do's and don'ts. I haven't done a lot of felling because it scares the heck out of me as it should anyone who hasn't had good training at it. Way too many people out casually cutting down trees without much idea of what they're doing. When I was living in Mexico, we dropped a massive heavy leaner of a guanacaste tree down a hillside. I left my buddy to do all the final cutting, and he had to scramble when it started going, because it didn't barber chair but it did rip up the roots for 10-20' on either side of it. Mostly I stick to milling - the last tree I dropped was a large live oak that was a bit of a leaner and I just notched it conventionally and back cut and it went over without incident. (That tree still haunts me as a tragic waste. I had an idiot neighbor with access to property he claimed was going to be cleared so most of the trees were fair game, but he turned out to be an inveterate liar and lost access to the property before I ever got to mill the tree, and it never needed to be cut down.)

If you ever do need to make a tree to go exactly the direction you want, for amateurs a rope high up with a lot of tension on it is one of the few sure ways and you don't need to climb trees to set one. All you need is a throw line with a beanie, and a sling shot for it if you've got no throwing arm. Get the light throw line over the highest branch you can and tie a rope to the throw line and loop it over the branch. Use a comealong on another tree or a truck to get the rope under a lot of tension. Wedges are also your best friend. I use wedges liberally and on conventional back cuts when I get anywhere near the tree going over I don't play a game of chicken with the tree with my saw. I start hammering wedges to make it go. Impossible to get hurt tangled up with your saw then. For any questionable leaner, and on any of the species most prone to barber chairing, plunge cutting is a valuable tool and some folks think absolutely any tree with the least bit of question to it should be plunge cut to allow you to execute a quick safe trigger cut at the back. But barber chairing is more of a problem with ash, alders, and a variety of tall conifers - the typical oaks of Florida are not something you run into it a lot. Start with mastering the basics, progress from there.

 

[irhunter]

My land is full of oaks, and a lot of them are rotten inside, so they can act a little weird. Also, I have to deal with a lot of leaners, both standing free and caught in other trees.

I cut across the north side a little bit and beat two wedges into it to keep the cut from closing. This gets rid of the strap on the side the tree will fall toward,so it can't be part of a barber chair. Then I plunge into the west side of the tree and cut until I hit the cut where the wedges are, giving me one big cut most of the way through the tree, with a strap on the south side and wedges on the north to keep the tree up. Then I cut the strap and run like hell, and the tree falls to the north. There is nothing left inside the tree to barber-chair.

I admit to not being able to fully follow your description of your cutting sequence.

I have three quick thoughts.

1. Philbert is right: plunge back-cut is helpful when cutting heavy leaners...reducing barber chair issues.

2. Falling dead standing trees involves more risk than the same tree when it was green. Falling trees with rot in the center further increases the risk.

3. You write of "beating wedges" while falling a dead tree, with rot, which you are falling with the lean. I suggest you do need to find some other approach. Any family or friend who is more experienced with falling than you? Seems you really need in-person coaching.

Good luck out there,

Roy

 

[kenmbz]

I only use plunge cuts on the dead Ash here as they are almost guaranteed to barberchair.
For any other tree it's the standard face cuts based on whether it will become boards or firewood , sometimes with rope since I don't climb.
If the trees are falling apart when you cut them, might be time to call in some help, not being able to tell which direction a tree will go will cause problems, especially with rotten cores and lean.

If a structure is involved, I call in someone with a truck or a climber to help out.

 

[William Melhorn]

I'm not ambitious enough to try to make leaning trees go in a new direction. I'm happy if they go wherever they want without hitting me. If it's leaning north, I go with it.

I have no way of getting into a tree to put a rope on it, so that's out. I'm not going to climb a tree at my age, and I don't know if a ladder is a good idea for a person who works alone.

use a ladder to get a cable (not rope) up in the tree and pull with your truck or a comealong

 

[Hermio]

Now that I have a saw that functions, I have to get back to work.

I want to ask what pros think of plunge-cutting to prevent barber-chairing and other kinds of splitting problems.

My land is full of oaks, and a lot of them are rotten inside, so they can act a little weird. Also, I have to deal with a lot of leaners, both standing free and caught in other trees.

Ever since I found out about plunge-cutting, I've used it a lot. If I have a tree leaning to the north, for example, I cut across the north side a little bit and beat two wedges into it to keep the cut from closing. This gets rid of the strap on the side the tree will fall toward,so it can't be part of a barber chair. Then I plunge into the west side of the tree and cut until I hit the cut where the wedges are, giving me one big cut most of the way through the tree, with a strap on the south side and wedges on the north to keep the tree up. Then I cut the strap and run like hell, and the tree falls to the north. There is nothing left inside the tree to barber-chair.

Is this a good safe method, or am I deluding myself? It's slow, but I'm not being paid, so it doesn't matter. Sometimes I plunge with a pole trimmer because it puts me farther from the tree and a couple of steps closer to safety.

I really hate felling trees because I'm not confident in my ability to do it the traditional way with a notch. If I try to make a notch, the second cut usually misses the bottom of the first one.

If your two notch cuts do not line up perfectly, trim some of the wood in the notch until you eliminate any kerfs.

 

[muddy42]

The vast majority of the time I notch out of the side that I want the tree to fall and then cut from the rear. With thicker trees I add wedges to stop the second cut closing in. Within reason, I sometime correct a slight rear lean by hammering in lots of wedges. Whatever you do it is critical that the two cuts are parallel and at the same height or the back cut is slightly higher than the front.

I will only add a plunge cut if the tree is wide enough and leaning a lot.

 

[Hermio]

The vast majority of the time I notch out of the side that I want the tree to fall and then cut from the rear. With thicker trees I add wedges to stop the second cut closing in. Within reason, I sometime correct a slight rear lean by hammering in lots of wedges. Whatever you do it is critical that the two cuts are parallel and at the same height or the back cut is slightly higher than the front.

I will only add a plunge cut if the tree is wide enough and leaning a lot.

You really should always make the back cut slightly higher. If the hinge fails, that will help prevent the tree from sliding back off the trunk.

 

[Mad Professor]

Any of these are good reading to get started safely.

 

[muddy42]

You really should always make the back cut slightly higher. If the hinge fails, that will help prevent the tree from sliding back off the trunk.

Correct that's what I do. Sorry when I said 'same height' I was trying to say that if the front notch is flat but then your rear cut ends up being 3 inches higher on one side and 1 inch higher on the other, that's not ideal.

Hard to find the words sometimes.

 

[Exophysical]

I admit to not being able to fully follow your description of your cutting sequence.

I have three quick thoughts.

1. Philbert is right: plunge back-cut is helpful when cutting heavy leaners...reducing barber chair issues.

2. Falling dead standing trees involves more risk than the same tree when it was green. Falling trees with rot in the center further increases the risk.

3. You write of "beating wedges" while falling a dead tree, with rot, which you are falling with the lean. I suggest you do need to find some other approach. Any family or friend who is more experienced with falling than you? Seems you really need in-person coaching.

Good luck out there,

Roy

After re-reading the OP, it sounds to me like he is putting wedges in his face cut (no notch mentioned in the description?), then making a plunge cut and leaving no hinge. To me this sounds hella sketchy.

Learn to make a notch, leave some hinge material, use a plunge on the back cut if needed and make it a few inches higher than the face cut. Thats my advice.

 

[SteveSr]

You really should always make the back cut slightly higher. If the hinge fails, that will help prevent the tree from sliding back off the trunk.

Actually, if you use the recommended open face notch the back cut should be at the same level as the apex of the notch. The hinge is what controls the direction of fall.

If the hinge breaks you are generally doing something wrong. If this happens you have lost all directional control of the tree

 

[Coralillo Lo Pro]

If the hinge breaks you are generally doing something wrong. If this happens you have lost all directional control of the tree

I go to Youtube to learn a lot of how-to, but some things like tree felling are best left to training and book instruction. One of the things people have sent me way too much is that goofy "mortise and tenon" cut like someone reinvented felling - "look how accurate it drops!" when the standard notch is pretty much controlling everything about the drop and the rest is a bunch of fancy showoff bs made completely for Youtube.

 

[Exophysical]

I go to Youtube to learn a lot of how-to, but some things like tree felling are best left to training and book instruction. One of the things people have sent me way too much is that goofy "mortise and tenon" cut like someone reinvented felling - "look how accurate it drops!" when the standard notch is pretty much controlling everything about the drop and the rest is a bunch of fancy showoff bs made completely for Youtube.

I agree with this, but today I had occasion to use a more complicated cut, I think its called a "keyhole' and its sort of the reverse of that mortise thing.

I had a weird leaning birch tree and I needed to take it almost 90 degrees off its line. It was small enough diameter that using a plunge back cut would have been awkward, and using wedges on the same side as the saw would have been just about impossible. So what do you do?

I dont do this often, but I took the notch out of the face and plunge cut straight through the center of my face cut. Then I loaded up a wedge on the back side of my plunge, snipped the back corners a few inches up, and sent the wedge home. More complicated than I prefer but I maintained control of the tree untill I had it headed in the right direction, I didnt run out of room to wedge, and I avoided tearing up my wedges with the saw. If somebody has a better way to handle such a situation I'm all ears.

 

[ZeroJunk]

Well, relevant or not. I lost one friend to a limb falling from above, and another it broke his collar bone and screwed him up pretty bad. So, there is that.
I have a couple of big red oaks that are half dead. Doesn't matter where they fall, but they scare me enough not to mess with them. And, they are not worth paying a guy in a bucket to whittle them down.

So, there is such a thing as just leaving them alone.

 

[Coralillo Lo Pro]

I agree with this, but today I had occasion to use a more complicated cut, I think its called a "keyhole' and its sort of the reverse of that mortise thing.

Don't have enough experience to suggest any better way, and sounds like it was effective. My problem with every video I've seen on the "keynotch", "mortise", whatever-cut is it's been on straight pines that would have fallen directly in the notch direction anyway. I've never seen it employed on a leaner that anyone was trying to get to go in another direction. To me, wedges and/or ropes are absolutely essential to get a tree to go where it really doesn't want to. Complex cuts alone can only do so much to alter the force of gravity. Wedges or rope are needed to get control over direction, which you seem to smartly use wedges a lot for.

 

[Bob Hedgecutter]

I say continue as you are- natural selection is a needed thing in this day and age.