No new Stihl's here. Too expensive for my cheapo blood and I'm not about to purchase a Chinese clone saw, ever. Just an occasional use anyway. Why I run canned gas as well. Only thing that runs on corn gas here is my wife's zero turn and it gets blue Marine Stabil added to the gas as well. My lawn mower is diesel powered so no issue with that at all. It's a Kubota F2880 front mount deck machine. Bought that used, cannot afford a new one at 23 grand.
Better Saw to Replace Echo CS590?
- Thread starter Paul Bunions
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Sounds to me like you're trying to talk yourself into a new saw. Send Matt Schmitt a PM, he has a brand new 400C powerhead for sale for $850 shipped.
LuDookie
ArboristSite Guru
Just fyi, the 590 is actually a saw that is absolutely notorious for being reliable, as much or more than the saws mentioned, and I’ve owned a 440 and 660.
Paul Bunions
ArboristSite Operative
Thanks for the responses.
1. "Take the saw to a good mechanic." That is great advice, of course. It was my first thought when I started having trouble. The problem is that there are no good mechanics within at least 20 miles. I tried. I don't want to bore anyone with the details, but I really had problems when I tried this, and I only used Echo-authorized businesses. Imagine having your saw held hostage for almost three months by incompetent repair joints. It happened to me. I can't figure out why they're so bad or why they have multiple-week backlogs. They also charge over $100 per hour, which is beyond insane. People coming out of law school can't touch that.
2. "Use the warranty." Echo's warranty specifically excluded the carburetor! That was brilliant of them.
3. "Tune it." I wish I could. Can't tune it until it runs steadily. I love watching videos about saw problems. "First, start the saw and let it run a while." If people could do that, would they be watching videos? The tuning directions are simple. Making the saw run is the hard part.
4. "The carb is messed up." Third carb. Right now I have a carb for a 620, bought new. I know how to take a carb apart, and I have a sonic cleaner, but it generally doesn't help with my small engines. I clean with hot gasoline in the machine. You would think that would break anything loose.
As long as I'm complaining, I have to say that I don't like Walbro. When I got this saw, I could buy a Chinese carb for just about any other small engine for $12. I'm just now seeing Walbro clones, and I got this saw in 2017.
Think about this: if I had a carb problem, I had a choice between fixing it myself, spending $125 per hour for a doofus to keep the saw for over a month, spending $100 or more for a new Walbro, or trying to make a Chinese carb work. The economics are unbelievable for a $400 saw.
I think I have problems largely because I'm in Florida and I don't use the saw very often. Being in Florida, I never have reason to clean it up and store it at the end of a season. There is no season, and I never know when I'll need it. Because my wood-clearing problems are separated by long down periods, the saw has a lot of time to sit in a hot, humid shop and gum up. I've tried Trufuel as well as running the saw dry, but I still have trouble.
The reason I think another saw might be better is that I have other small engines that never give me trouble. If Echo can make a blower that will run after a year and a half of sitting with fuel in it, somebody must be making a saw that won't gum up and die in 6 weeks after being run dry.
I use Biobor EB and Red Armor in everything, and I use zero-corn gas. I admit, I have not been great about looking after things. This year, I started up my Echo blower, and the gas was from April of 2023. Fired right up and ran like a champ.
The Makita is infinitely superior to the Echo in every way except for run time and bar length. I can do a 90-minute job with 4 batteries, and then I'm done for the day. I wish I could connect it to a car battery! I'd never use anything else.
1. "Take the saw to a good mechanic." That is great advice, of course. It was my first thought when I started having trouble. The problem is that there are no good mechanics within at least 20 miles. I tried. I don't want to bore anyone with the details, but I really had problems when I tried this, and I only used Echo-authorized businesses. Imagine having your saw held hostage for almost three months by incompetent repair joints. It happened to me. I can't figure out why they're so bad or why they have multiple-week backlogs. They also charge over $100 per hour, which is beyond insane. People coming out of law school can't touch that.
2. "Use the warranty." Echo's warranty specifically excluded the carburetor! That was brilliant of them.
3. "Tune it." I wish I could. Can't tune it until it runs steadily. I love watching videos about saw problems. "First, start the saw and let it run a while." If people could do that, would they be watching videos? The tuning directions are simple. Making the saw run is the hard part.
4. "The carb is messed up." Third carb. Right now I have a carb for a 620, bought new. I know how to take a carb apart, and I have a sonic cleaner, but it generally doesn't help with my small engines. I clean with hot gasoline in the machine. You would think that would break anything loose.
As long as I'm complaining, I have to say that I don't like Walbro. When I got this saw, I could buy a Chinese carb for just about any other small engine for $12. I'm just now seeing Walbro clones, and I got this saw in 2017.
Think about this: if I had a carb problem, I had a choice between fixing it myself, spending $125 per hour for a doofus to keep the saw for over a month, spending $100 or more for a new Walbro, or trying to make a Chinese carb work. The economics are unbelievable for a $400 saw.
I think I have problems largely because I'm in Florida and I don't use the saw very often. Being in Florida, I never have reason to clean it up and store it at the end of a season. There is no season, and I never know when I'll need it. Because my wood-clearing problems are separated by long down periods, the saw has a lot of time to sit in a hot, humid shop and gum up. I've tried Trufuel as well as running the saw dry, but I still have trouble.
The reason I think another saw might be better is that I have other small engines that never give me trouble. If Echo can make a blower that will run after a year and a half of sitting with fuel in it, somebody must be making a saw that won't gum up and die in 6 weeks after being run dry.
I use Biobor EB and Red Armor in everything, and I use zero-corn gas. I admit, I have not been great about looking after things. This year, I started up my Echo blower, and the gas was from April of 2023. Fired right up and ran like a champ.
The Makita is infinitely superior to the Echo in every way except for run time and bar length. I can do a 90-minute job with 4 batteries, and then I'm done for the day. I wish I could connect it to a car battery! I'd never use anything else.
Paul Bunions
ArboristSite Operative
As for this thing being notorious for reliability, I suspect that is more true of professional users who run their saws all the time. The web is full of complaints about this model. Maybe I should start running things once a week for a minute or so, and leaving them full, instead of wasting my time running them dry and using canned fuel.
Buy a bigger electric saw, they make ones that are as big and fast as the 590 now.
They are made for user like you who only use a saw a few times a year at most.
They are made for user like you who only use a saw a few times a year at most.
LuDookie
ArboristSite Guru
There are more complaints about the $1500 500i in the short time it’s been available, than the decade + of 590’s. The 500i is still a very reliable saw. If you do a search for problems, you’ll find them, especially for something as widely used as the Echo 590 and coveted 500i. It’s simply not a problem saw. I found similar threads on my Tundra, even though it was a very reliable 1/2 ton truck, relative to 1/2 ton trucks. Sounds like you are soured on the 590, and should move on from it. I’m kind of that way with the Stihl 261 that everyone loves and seems to recommend first. I just moved on from it and found saws in that range I like. I think a good electric saw might be a good option for you if you don’t have a bunch of big cutting to do.
Power inverter. Charge your saw batteries from your vehicle.
macstrange
ArboristSite Operative
Echo 750evl. The old kioritz echos rock
LuDookie
ArboristSite Guru
I’ve got a CS 440. Not as old as the EVL’s but I love it. It’s been run hard for 16 years and cuts better than when it was new. Same as my Kioritz 370. Been run beyond its capacity for over a decade, commercially. Still kicking hard.
I agree with your conclusion: dump your Echo. You've gone down that road far enough.
If you don't want to go 100% battery, I think there is a fair chance that your next saw will work better than the current saw (whether it's a different 590 or something else).
All things considered, I would suggest you would be best served by a Mtronic or Autotune saw.
MS261CM would be my suggestion.
Roy
Saws with primer bulbs do better when not used often.
You can use the purge/primer bulb to flush the old gas out of the carb before starting them.
Something like a 455 husqvarna rancher would be fine your your use, you dont need a pro level saw for cutting a few trees once in a while.
You can use the purge/primer bulb to flush the old gas out of the carb before starting them.
Something like a 455 husqvarna rancher would be fine your your use, you dont need a pro level saw for cutting a few trees once in a while.
Paul Bunions
ArboristSite Operative
I don't know why they made this thing without a bulb.
I stuck a new China carb on it, and nothing happens. Replaced the diaphragm and cleaned out the needles on the 600 carb, and nothing happens. Not even a fart. Yesterday it ran very briefly.
I saw a Youtube lady saying old geezers don't pull hard enough. I went out and checked how hard I was pulling it, and I don't think it's possible to yank the cord any faster without a Iron Man suit.
She said to pull the cord out slightly a couple of times before really trying to start it. That didn't help.
The fuel pump must be good. When I disconnect the fuel supply, gas goes all over from built-up pressure.
I'm pretty sure I would not be having problems if I had known what I was doing when I got the saw. I would have run it regularly to keep the carb open. I also screwed up some parts by revving it without unlocking the brake fast enough. I moved here from a city, and I had no idea how hard it was to keep small engines going in the age of bad gas.
My Jonsered is also acting up. It will cut wood just fine, but it's impossible to get the chain to stop moving at idle. It will move a little from time to time, and occasionally, it takes off. Took the carb off and put it back on to make sure I had no air leaks.
I don't even want to discuss my Echo pole saw.
Man, it would be nice if there was one person within a day's drive who could fix a chainsaw. In a few days, I'm supposed to help some neighbors move two leaning trees.
I stuck a new China carb on it, and nothing happens. Replaced the diaphragm and cleaned out the needles on the 600 carb, and nothing happens. Not even a fart. Yesterday it ran very briefly.
I saw a Youtube lady saying old geezers don't pull hard enough. I went out and checked how hard I was pulling it, and I don't think it's possible to yank the cord any faster without a Iron Man suit.
She said to pull the cord out slightly a couple of times before really trying to start it. That didn't help.
The fuel pump must be good. When I disconnect the fuel supply, gas goes all over from built-up pressure.
I'm pretty sure I would not be having problems if I had known what I was doing when I got the saw. I would have run it regularly to keep the carb open. I also screwed up some parts by revving it without unlocking the brake fast enough. I moved here from a city, and I had no idea how hard it was to keep small engines going in the age of bad gas.
My Jonsered is also acting up. It will cut wood just fine, but it's impossible to get the chain to stop moving at idle. It will move a little from time to time, and occasionally, it takes off. Took the carb off and put it back on to make sure I had no air leaks.
I don't even want to discuss my Echo pole saw.
Man, it would be nice if there was one person within a day's drive who could fix a chainsaw. In a few days, I'm supposed to help some neighbors move two leaning trees.
Paul Bunions
ArboristSite Operative
I wonder if I could drill a hole in the case and install an air purge bulb.
JRenna
ArboristSite Operative
I’d pull the muffler and have a look inside the cylinder really quick. Then I’d check and make sure there was a good spark. I’d put some fresh fuel in it and set the carb to factory setting just to get it to start. This should at least get it started. Now I had a 3510 that wouldn’t run for more than a few seconds new out of the box. I pulled the limiters and tuned it and it ran perfect. It had a severe lean bog out of the box. If all your outdoor power equipment is experiencing issues there is probably a common problem.
JRenna
ArboristSite Operative
Paul Bunions
ArboristSite Operative
Before reading the last two posts, I put H at 1/2 and L at 2 on the 600 carb. I yanked a few times, and the saw started. Ran maybe 15 seconds before I goosed the throttle, which killed it. I think it's flooded now.
The gas is about 9 days old.
The gas is about 9 days old.
Paul Bunions
ArboristSite Operative
No limiter caps.
JRenna
ArboristSite Operative
Will it idle without touching the trigger?
Modern manufacturing dictates that you aren't going to get a lemon, or a saw with major issues because everything is made to tight specs and inspected heavily, Echo is no exception. These saws are second to none for reliability.
I have to side with others saying this is a combination of carb tuning or lack of knowledge on the subject. High screw, low screw, and idle...if these three aren't in sync you have problems galore. If your idle is just turned out a little too much it won't start, for example.
I have to side with others saying this is a combination of carb tuning or lack of knowledge on the subject. High screw, low screw, and idle...if these three aren't in sync you have problems galore. If your idle is just turned out a little too much it won't start, for example.
