Jacking and felling large ash tree

[Huskybill]

its been attacked by the ash beetle and this fall it needs to come down. I dropped many trees in my life in the forest. Since this is a tall large diameter tree I’m thinking about jacking it so it goes in the right direction. My question is what size jack to I need tonnage wise?

 

[Leeroy]

How much lean? Get a "stubby" bottle jack. I'll have to check but I think mines a 30ton and I've tipped some big trees(S.New England) with heavy leans. How dead is the ash? I know you've done a lot of cutting but those dead ash seem worse than dead oak.
You'll want a nice thick piece of steel for top of jack too.

 

[ATH]

Are you dropping against the lean?

 

[Skeans]

If you don’t have experience doing it don’t do it, jacking is something that shouldn’t be done by just anyone. Best test is if you need to ask the internet don’t do it.

Here’s my old set of Silvey tree jacks notice the bases they swing as the tree is lifted? The set would lift 125 tons it’s never fun seeing the gauge hit the red line.


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[Huskybill]

There’s very little lean in favor of jacking it.

 

[ATH]

If there isn't much lean wedges should do the job.

 

[Huskybill]

Knotch it then back cut and wedge it.

 

[Skeans]

@Huskybill

This is one of the setups I have/use when jacking stuff that isn’t heavy leaners more of stuff on lines where I want to be dead sure I’m on. How confident are you on your skills with back cutting first? Getting the jack seat in? What about getting your face in after that? What about making sure you don’t pop the tree off the stump?


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[Del_]

What is wrong with setting a rope up in the tree?

I've never jacked a tree. As an arborist I've got lots of rope and blocks on hand and way to get them high up in trees without climbing. So that is what I do.

I know the pros use jacks and use them well. I like to watch videos of such but for me I can see it is a skill set that I'd have to learn. It's not as simple as just placing a jack in a notch in a tree and jacking. It looks like it could go bad, fast.

 

[Capitalist]

I have jacked a couple.
I use an old railroad jack.
Main thing is to be sure your contact points have the weight distributed over a large surface area so it doesnt sink into the wood and get stuck or pop out.

In nearly all situation such as this I use a 12000 lb electric winch and some rope.
If I have no access but to one side I set up snatch blocks on a tree towrds the derecion i want to fell and then connect up high in the tree and back to my winch.

I have also used snatch blocks in this scenario to run rope or cable around a house into the back yard because there was no access and the winch made felling big pieces much easier.

 

[Groundman One]

What is wrong with setting a rope up in the tree?

I've never jacked a tree. As an arborist I've got lots of rope and blocks on hand and way to get them high up in trees without climbing. So that is what I do.

I know the pros use jacks and use them well. I like to watch videos of such but for me I can see it is a skill set that I'd have to learn. It's not as simple as just placing a jack in a notch in a tree and jacking. It looks like it could go bad, fast.

We've never jacked a tree either. Just ropes. Lots and lots of ropes.

And the truck once or twice.

 

[Ax-man]

Just my 2cents. I would go with a rope and truck ,tractor or a come along with a lot of cable to pull it over . The higher you set the rope up in the tree the better for the most amount of leverage to make the tree commit to the direction of the fall. Doesn't take much as long as you can keep tension on the rope with a slow steady pull and your cuts are correct.

Tree jacks like the ones in the pic are specially made just for tipping trees . Not saying a bottle jack won't work but the cuts have to be precise for it to stay in the notch and actually lift the tree . To me a bottle jack doesn't offer enough lift to tip the tree unless your prepared to do some wedging and adding a shim to the bottom after the jack maxes out. To me it just isn't a good idea unless you have done it a few times out in place where it doesn't matter where the tree goes.

I myself have never had any luck with wedges to tip a tree over. That seems to be a Pacific Northwest thing for those single stem straight ,tall big evergreen trees or those popular species . The trees here in the Midwest with multiple leaders that grow about as wide as they are tall with the weight distributed in many directions are best pulled over with a rope.

Like I said this just my input on the subject not trying to discourage you from trying.

 

[ATH]

I learned from loggers here in Ohio about using wedges. They aren't a solution to everything, but many, many trees can be moved quite a bit with wedges. OP said his was nearly straight...wedges can be that little extra "insurance". I use them all the time just to make sure... But a rope comes out if it needs serious pull in the other direction (I don't have a skidder like the loggers who taught me to use wedges ).

Was administering a job being logged with horses last week. They had a tree leaning to the field that they wanted to fall into the woods. They used a big shot to set a line about 1/2 up. Ran the line through a snatch block to redirect and then hooked it to the horses who pulled out into the field to get the tree to go in. Amazing what 3 HP can do.

 

[Del_]

I learned from loggers here in Ohio about using wedges. They aren't a solution to everything, but many, many trees can be moved quite a bit with wedges. OP said his was nearly straight...wedges can be that little extra "insurance". I use them all the time just to make sure... But a rope comes out if it needs serious pull in the other direction (I don't have a skidder like the loggers who taught me to use wedges ).

Was administering a job being logged with horses last week. They had a tree leaning to the field that they wanted to fall into the woods. They used a big shot to set a line about 1/2 up. Ran the line through a snatch block to redirect and then hooked it to the horses who pulled out into the field to get the tree to go in. Amazing what 3 HP can do.

I'd like to have seen that.

 

[Skeans]

Just my 2cents. I would go with a rope and truck ,tractor or a come along with a lot of cable to pull it over . The higher you set the rope up in the tree the better for the most amount of leverage to make the tree commit to the direction of the fall. Doesn't take much as long as you can keep tension on the rope with a slow steady pull and your cuts are correct.

Tree jacks like the ones in the pic are specially made just for tipping trees . Not saying a bottle jack won't work but the cuts have to be precise for it to stay in the notch and actually lift the tree . To me a bottle jack doesn't offer enough lift to tip the tree unless your prepared to do some wedging and adding a shim to the bottom after the jack maxes out. To me it just isn't a good idea unless you have done it a few times out in place where it doesn't matter where the tree goes.

I myself have never had any luck with wedges to tip a tree over. That seems to be a Pacific Northwest thing for those single stem straight ,tall big evergreen trees or those popular species . The trees here in the Midwest with multiple leaders that grow about as wide as they are tall with the weight distributed in many directions are best pulled over with a rope.

Like I said this just my input on the subject not trying to discourage you from trying.

I think you’d be amazed at how little travel the big sets have, 4” is the travel on the ram. To the wedges a lot of it depends on how deep you put the face in a 1/3 to 1/2 is normally what I shoot for depending on the tree on hard back leaners I’ll put the back cut in first and pound wedges.


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[Skeans]

We've never jacked a tree either. Just ropes. Lots and lots of ropes.

And the truck once or twice.

You’d be in for a treat for how quick you can jack something over vs climbing to setup rigging. That said we can’t shoot a rope out here with say a Doug fir it’ll just get caught in the limbs if you’re lucky.


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[ATH]

I'd like to have seen that.

I'd have video taped them, but Amish don't want to be on camera so I respect that. The middle son was driving the horses for this one...he's 15. The crew is Dad and 3 sons (18, 15, 13). Dad and 18 year old do most of the felling. 13 and 15 year old boys are driving the horse teams to skid the logs. The saw was set aside the other day and was needed to buck up the down tree. 13 year old grabs it, drop starts a 661 and hands it to his brother. Don't see that every day LOL. Horse logging can be a mixed bag, but they are doing a good job.

 

[Groundman One]

You’d be in for a treat for how quick you can jack something over vs climbing to setup rigging. That said we can’t shoot a rope out here with say a Doug fir it’ll just get caught in the limbs if you’re lucky.


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I hear ya. And you might be right. But we are definitely rope people and climbing is no big deal.

 

[Leeroy]

Long story short- years ago before I knew better I had a 5 ton bottle Jack blow out. Greenhouses in the equation.
Managed to get it with many wedges with no damage. I'm not an arborist but used to sub contract for a sawmill that would want any tree that would make a sawlog. I think I fell out of favor when I told the foresters they could start cutting those trees.
Interesting side note- the owner of those greenhouses years later drove an SUV into Hawaii airport and tried to start a fire. Anyone remember that?

 

[TurboA2]

I use wedges. Sometimes gotta stack em. If wedges look like they wont be enough I'll set a rope in case I need it.