Haters gonna hate.
I did it my self
- Thread starter beav700
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The economics are mixed ...
The OP had the equipment left so that's value retained. And what does it cost to go to some sort of abbreviated training program? Self taught - you can take that off the bill too. The wood is left over, don't know if he consumed it all or sold some?
Does not appear that getting it done a week was a priority? Maybe something along the lines of harvest some this year and some next? This could go along for a while. Storage space is more efficient if left standing
The OP had the equipment left so that's value retained. And what does it cost to go to some sort of abbreviated training program? Self taught - you can take that off the bill too. The wood is left over, don't know if he consumed it all or sold some?
Does not appear that getting it done a week was a priority? Maybe something along the lines of harvest some this year and some next? This could go along for a while. Storage space is more efficient if left standing
treeguy347
ArboristSite Operative
Beav,
Happy to hear you weren't injured. Two things to consider when you are "helping" others out for free:
1. How would you like it if there were hundreds of us doing your job for your customers/company for free???
2. I hope you have a good checking accout to pay for damage when you do screw up.
I have no problem with HO's doing work on their own property. That lessens the risks of their inexperience to the rest of us. DON'T go doing it for others! If someone wants to kill/injure themselves or damage their own property, that's called Darwin. When you do it to someone else, that's stupidity.
Happy to hear you weren't injured. Two things to consider when you are "helping" others out for free:
1. How would you like it if there were hundreds of us doing your job for your customers/company for free???
2. I hope you have a good checking accout to pay for damage when you do screw up.
I have no problem with HO's doing work on their own property. That lessens the risks of their inexperience to the rest of us. DON'T go doing it for others! If someone wants to kill/injure themselves or damage their own property, that's called Darwin. When you do it to someone else, that's stupidity.
hardpan
Addicted to ArboristSite
Beav, I totally support someone who measures the risk, studies the methods, and works with calculated movement to do the job for himself. Liability is a big issue when working for someone else on their property even if only swapping favors with friends (think of the old barn raisings, build a barn in a day). I do it anyway and frequently but the fact is if you break an arm or something while on someone elses'
property your blood sucking insurance company will require you to sue the property owner for payment of the injury. If the injury includes an ambulance or police report there is no denying the location.
property your blood sucking insurance company will require you to sue the property owner for payment of the injury. If the injury includes an ambulance or police report there is no denying the location.
Gray areas ??
I understand the intent here, but does that apply to your direct neighbors? Is it OK for HO's to work on trees on the property-line that are shared? How about ones with a fall radius of my back yard or house?
I know that may be a bit picky, but if we are going to discuss when it's appropriate, we need to clarify the gray areas, if possible :tongue2:
I don't work "away" from home, or my one direct neighbor, or Pop and the family ranch. That's enough tree work to keep me busy during "wood time". But, I know a few others who do. I agree that it's a mine field in the modern world once you cross onto someones property for purposes that can be construed as "gainful". I guess the days of "Barn Raising" (and I have been involved in a few of those too) are pretty much over as long as there are insurance companies involved
I understand the intent here, but does that apply to your direct neighbors? Is it OK for HO's to work on trees on the property-line that are shared? How about ones with a fall radius of my back yard or house?
I know that may be a bit picky, but if we are going to discuss when it's appropriate, we need to clarify the gray areas, if possible :tongue2:
I don't work "away" from home, or my one direct neighbor, or Pop and the family ranch. That's enough tree work to keep me busy during "wood time". But, I know a few others who do. I agree that it's a mine field in the modern world once you cross onto someones property for purposes that can be construed as "gainful". I guess the days of "Barn Raising" (and I have been involved in a few of those too
) are pretty much over as long as there are insurance companies involved treeguy347
ArboristSite Operative
I understand the intent here, but does that apply to your direct neighbors? Is it OK for HO's to work on trees on the property-line that are shared? How about ones with a fall radius of my back yard or house?
I know that may be a bit picky, but if we are going to discuss when it's appropriate, we need to clarify the gray areas, if possible :tongue2:
I don't work "away" from home, or my one direct neighbor, or Pop and the family ranch. That's enough tree work to keep me busy during "wood time". But, I know a few others who do. I agree that it's a mine field in the modern world once you cross onto someones property for purposes that can be construed as "gainful". I guess the days of "Barn Raising" (and I have been involved in a few of those too
Now we're just playing semantics :msp_biggrin: I wish I had been around in the "barn-raising" days. Its a shame that liars errrr, I mean lawyers :msp_biggrin: and insurance companies have us all wound so tight about liability
I was raised to help others out. Thankfully in our small town that mindset is not lost. However, any time there's aerial work, I have very strong feelings about letting the professionals do it. They come from having several homeowners call me for bids, then get severely injured attempting it themselves. One fell from a 32' extension ladder trying to take down an oak limb I quoted at $175 including cleanup. He broke both legs and shattered a hip socket. I hate to see people get hurt, because in this line of work its usually bad. We all had to start somewhere. A strong background in rock climbing gave me a healthy respect for heights and thourough knowledge of rope techniques and safety. A good climber is always learning and is never too arrogant to advance their skills. You will never know it all. It is simply not prudent to order a bunch of gear, watch some videos on the internet and play squirrel. If you want to learn to climb, great! Take a class or apprentice, don't just go at it with internet and book knowledge.
imagineero
Addicted to ArboristSite
Well, it's not like I'm looking for work. It's mainly my coworkers and family. I had so many pictures and videos showing what a bad a$$ tree guy I am so people ask me for help. Can't say no knowing that they will have to pay if I don't help.
Be careful. You've taught yourself just enough to cause serious damage to yourself and property. I can guarantee you that if you continue to do this type of work, you will have a accident. Everybody does. No one is immune. If your friends make a nice living like yourself, they can afford to hire a professional.
treeguy347
ArboristSite Operative
You can say "no." Most importantly, its the prudent thing to do. You are not a "bad a$$" tree guy. You are one of two things: a resourceful homeowner that got lucky and is now cocky or you are a troll. For sake of discussion, I will respond as if you are legit. The bottom line is, you need to be humbled. Now. Either take the smart road and humble yourself or let this job do it for you and we'll read about you in the "Injuries and Fatalities" forum.
I'll also revisit the point I made that we do this trade to survive and provide for our families. If you want to form a legitimate business, pay insurance, pay taxes and pay your dues like the rest of us, I have no problem with that. If not, you have no business advertising what you've done and doing our trade for free because your friends and family will have to pay. Don't lie that you aren't, because showing pictures and videos of your work then saying you can do the same for whomever you show it to is advertising.
You can say no, and maybe you should depending on the situation. You may be Bad A$$ in your group of friends and acquaintances, but around here you are just a semi-experienced homeowner. I think I see some true colors coming out here and I would not have you work on my wood :taped:
How does your wife feel about you climbing and cutting on other peoples property and for free?
sgreanbeans
Treeaculterologist
Gotta agree Beav, granted u did all that, but u did it on your turf, on ur time. Buddy's turn to a-holes real quick if one little thing goes wrong. Those trees at ur place where pretty easy for most of us. I am guessing that I could have had that job done in a couple days, most of the time just moving material out. You can find yourself in a bad situation real quick on a more complicated tree. Without a pro watching your back, you will make decisions based on your experience, which is very little. I think u are smart enough to get what I am saying, and if you wish to continue doing this, u need to get some time in with a seasoned pro. There are a gazillion different scenarios out there, and you need a arsenal of knowledge to understand how to deal with them. Something that looks like a easy peasy to u, may be a accident waiting to happen, with little experience, you wont be able to recognize them until it is too late. Still think it was cool what u did, but don't get over confident, it WILL bite u.
arborjockey
ArboristSite Guru
Dont let these guys run you off. I had no one train me for about 5-6 years. I read and did sidejobs gathering tools and experience with each job. Guys in the business are arrogant know it alls and I was to proud for direction. I was also fresh off a divorce and had no fear of death. Two weeks after my 2 day climbing seminar (tree tools potland Or.)I removed 4 - 120' cedar trees. Two were over my buddys house. Then went next door and dead wooded a 160' fir. After only a year or so I applyed for foreman position and got it. Bucket truck, brand new chip truck, and every tool imaginable for me. They sent me to climbing compitions, workshops, all kinds of cool stuff. I read and studied my ass off to find the latest and greatest techniques. But in the heat of it I still had no one to tell me I was doing something wrong. The #1 thing you need is to study from the best. Listen to guys who know not blow. #### loads of missinformation. The Fundamentals of General Tree work. By G.F.Baranek. the practical rigging dvd etc... Get some studying done. Don't listen to some jackass who said "that's the way my granpa did it and thats the way my dad did it. You'll find out dad and pappy are both idiots and dangerous. When I humbled myself and went to work for one of the best. Life and work got easy. I got to learn 2-10 things everyday and thats priceless. Let me say nobody cuts big wood like George. Love ye George.
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Overtrained
Not crazy, Stoopid!
I didnt realize you have to be a "commercial tree worker" to have any sort of right to post on this site. I was brought to this site because I needed some tech info on chainsaw repair, should I never return? I run refrigeration equipment for a living, no where near this profession. The OP did everything right, gathered a lot of info and took the job on accordingly, at his own pace, on his own time and in his own backyard. Id be pretty damn proud of myself if I did that as well. Cut him some damn slack. So what if he is helping his friends and family for free? Wouldnt you? There is nothing I wouldnt do for my family or close friends, hes a grown man, he knows the risks, its his problem if sh!% happens. Unless he's friends with the entire US of A the commercial tree workers profession is most certainly not in danger of becoming extinct.
VA-Sawyer
Addicted to ArboristSite
Next thing you know, he'll be reading a book and teaching himself to fly!
banshee67
Poulan Wild Thang
look at you guys
crying over a guy saving himself some money
i hope every last one of you never even thinks of doing something himself in the future
grass cutting? forget about it. call a pro.
laundry? you know there are professionals who make a living doing laundry and by doing your own laundry at home youre only hurting these hard working men and woman from making an honest living.
this thread needs its own forum to accommodate some of the egos in the tree business.
crying over a guy saving himself some money
i hope every last one of you never even thinks of doing something himself in the future
grass cutting? forget about it. call a pro.
laundry? you know there are professionals who make a living doing laundry and by doing your own laundry at home youre only hurting these hard working men and woman from making an honest living.
this thread needs its own forum to accommodate some of the egos in the tree business.
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I agree. Im gettin plain fed up with the egos on this site. I cant read one thread without it turning into bashing the op. The guy saved himself some money and didnt back down from a chalenge. I dont think he should go out and start a tree company but why not help out his friends? Its none of your bussiness anyway! If he did the work he said he did he knows its dangerous and should know what he CANT do. He doesnt need every tree guy here telling him what he is doing wrong.
arborjockey
ArboristSite Guru
look at you guys
crying over a guy saving himself some money
i hope every last one of you never even thinks of doing something himself in the future
grass cutting? forget about it. call a pro.
laundry? you know there are professionals who make a living doing laundry and by doing your own laundry at home youre only hurting these hard working men and woman from making an honest living.
this thread needs its own forum to accommodate some of the egos in the tree business.
Yeah yeah anybody can run a chainsaw. Its just like doing laundry, cutting grass, wiping your ass, or posting here. Any idiot can that. This 10 year apprentice thing i'm going through soooooo stupid. Learning anything from a third generation logger would be a waste of time when my uncle does the same thing for free on the weekends. Weekdays he folds laundry at the hotel.
Its not about the $ . I donate my time way to much. Its about a craft and craftsman. Theirs an art to it and its doing it without being killed or maimed. The guys on the site are giving headed warning because its dangerous. I say cut cut cut but don't forget to get it on video. Oh and have 911 on speed dial....and finish the will.
:mad2:
Can't believe you guys. Im taking my chainsaw and going to another site.
Overtrained
Not crazy, Stoopid!
The OP is ok, he did well for himself. He survived up until this point and gave props to every tree guy out there for doing this stuff everyday for a living. Some of you need to calm down a bit........and when you do....you will be back.:hmm3grin2orange:
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