Skidder rebuild, { warning graphic pictures}

[nhlogga]

I bought big yeller in April, had a Tree Farmer C5D Duetz for 17 years before.

Let me tell you; The 648D is about 50x the skidder. And it fits through every trail I made with the twig farmer...steers about 60000% better.

I will never own another cable machine, ever. If it don't have a grapple on back, I don't want it.
Naturally, a winch on the grapple is a good idea. I will be adding one to this JD soon. But I have not needed a winch yet. And I have not dragged a cable since April.

I do believe I see that machine everyday on the way to/back from the lot I am working on.

 

[hutch3912]

clark 644

Any of you guys know anything about a Clark 644 with a detroit? Had never heard of that model but it was brought up in a trade discussion the other day and now I'm curious as to what it's worth, it's strengths, weaknesses?

 

[upstateny]

Never been around the 664's. We have a 665 with a Detroit that is a great little skidder. Easy to get in and out of, simple to operate, runs very little fuel, even pulling big hardwoods all day. Definitely would love to work out a deal on a nice 664 or 665.

 

[hutch3912]

clark

I've run a 664B alot and loved it but I had never heard of a 644 model. Is it smaller? Didn't think you could get much more compact than the 664 which makes it a pain in the a$$ to work on.

 

[plasticweld]

This week after we had a few set backs we managed to install the front axle. This should have been an easy task with the precautions we took when we made the alignment tool in the lath. The bushings were in at a slight angle and we had to put it together and then take it apart a couple of times to get a perfect fit so there would be no pressure on the pins when it went together.

Leroy ran into another problem with the blade this week, he was hoping for more progress but Murphy’s Law always works. The blade arm had a slight twist to it so that it was impossible to line up the bushings on the arm and drive the pin home. After some discussion I decided to cut off the arm, line the pins up and get it perfect and then weld the arm of the blade back on again. I figure that this was due to the pins and bushings being worn and pushing hard against either stuck log trucks or the log pile

The tools of any logger now a days, I have no idea how this would go if I had to hire all of this welding done

The other project we were able to take care of was the pillow box bearing that supports the drive shaft off of the transmission. It made a funny sound when turned by hand, after taking it apart we found one of the bearings had seized on the shaft. This took a lot of effort to get the old race off of the shaft. We ended up heating the race cherry red and then cooling with cold water to make it brittle and then taking the hammer and chisel to hit to break it off

So far this is where we stand, most of the parts have been painted, we finally got the rest of the part for the rear so that it could be assembled. The most frustrating part of this whole rebuild so far has been the delay in getting parts for the machine; I figure I have at least three weeks waiting for parts. I would be out of business if I had only one skidder

 

[jay_d]

that is gonna be one jam up little 240 when your done. I have to say if there was any kind of cable skidder i would run (which there isn't, us flat landers run grapple skidders) that would be it.

I have only ran a 240 for about 3 hours and most of that was spent on the ground setting chokers.
How does that thing ride? could you stay on it all day if it had a grapple and an enclosed cab?

(i ask because i found a later model 240 with a cummins and a grapple with a/c i was considering buying to thin pine plantations with)

and oldtimer, if you were to try out a 450c dual arch you would spit on that gear jamming john deere. I would say a 460c, but you dont seem the type to like electronics

 

[Oldtimer]

and oldtimer, if you were to try out a 450c dual arch you would spit on that gear jamming john deere. I would say a 460c, but you dont seem the type to like electronics

Is it full time all wheel or do the axles lock in and out like the JD? Never ran one, but this JD-D is a lotta machine. It would have to be pretty damn good to beat it.

 

[jay_d]

limited slip front end, rear end has a hydraulic locker........and its a power shift, so put it in second gear and go. they will mountain pretty good with a nice set of tires, put chains on them and you can climb a wall with 3 big red oaks with the tops in them still. Plus they are great on fuel, mine will drag 12-15 loads on 60 gallons. but thats only because it has the wr10 axles, my 450 single arch has the higher gear ratio and will pull 15-20 loads on 60 gallons. and my loads are usually 25-33 tons.

as far as beating it, id say they were close, i ran a 648g, more creature comfort and a bigger grapple....bout it, i would say a 16 year old 648g3 wouldnt be half what a 450c is

if you could get lucky enough to find one (they are all mostly up north) a 480 timberjack is where its at, they are the same skidder as a 450, but have a huge dozer blade and a 120 inch sorting grapple and instead of a 173 hp cummins, they have a 190 hp.

If you get the chance try one out. they are fine machines, and are under rated on the internet.

 

[SBeange]

Reversed DD 3-53 Diesel Engine

Plasticweld,

You mentioned buying a used 3-53 that was reveresed and therefore wouldn't fit your Timberjack 200 series skidder. As I understand one of the benefits of the DD 3-53 was the ability to reverse it .... using the same parts. ie turn the head 180 degrees, and relocate the blower and manifolds. Of course there is likely more involved but I believe manageable by someone with your skills and attention to detail. Any DD shop should be able to assist.

I look forward to seeing the project completed pictures. I spent considerable time around older TJ 200 series machines.

Scott

 

[Oldtimer]

limited slip front end, rear end has a hydraulic locker........and its a power shift, so put it in second gear and go. they will mountain pretty good with a nice set of tires, put chains on them and you can climb a wall with 3 big red oaks with the tops in them still. Plus they are great on fuel, mine will drag 12-15 loads on 60 gallons. but thats only because it has the wr10 axles, my 450 single arch has the higher gear ratio and will pull 15-20 loads on 60 gallons. and my loads are usually 25-33 tons.

as far as beating it, id say they were close, i ran a 648g, more creature comfort and a bigger grapple....bout it, i would say a 16 year old 648gwouldn'tnt be half what a 450c is

if you could get lucky enough to find one (they are all mostly up north) a 480 timberjack is where its at, they are the same skidder as a 450, but have a huge dozer blade and a 120 inch sorting grapple and instead of a 173 hp cummins, they have a 190 hp.

If you get the chance try one out. they are fine machines, and are under rated on the internet.

I don't think the huge blade (or any blade that sticks out beyond the tires) would suit me now that I have had this Deere for 18 months or so..The deere is just super well thought out.
The blade is narrow for a good reason: If the blade doesn't hit a tree in a tight turn, the tire won't hit. Same in reverse, the tire misses the tree, the blade does too. Let me tell you, coming off the Tree Farmer, I get in a lot less trouble, and have 95% less scarred up trees.
The continuous rotation grapple is a must have. The grab bars are in the perfect spot for getting on and off, they actually swing you away from the muddy tire when you dismount after you "figure them out". The only real issue I have is the seat faces forward, rather than sideways like the new stuff. I sit sideways in it, and run the throttle with my left foot...makes using the grapple easy and saves my neck. I set the hand throttle to 1/4 or so, and add power to suit with my left foot. Never use the "clutch" either. Just the shifter. Works really well after you understand the setup.
In the rough terrain I am on at the moment, I move a load + of hardwood (firewood and some logs) on about 6 gallons. About 7 hours total run time. Miserable going, steeper than usual and rocks the size of your couch.
Mind you, this is chainsaw select cutting, not bunched wood.

 

[SBeange]

Timberjack Dealer

Orginally I thought about using a Dutz but everyone I talked to seemed tell me it was cheaper to buy a skidder with a Dutz already in it than change over to one because of how the pump was set up and all the other stuff that would need to be changed.
I used the Detroit just because I had it; not my first choice ever, lots of noise and not much power. In my dream world I would sell my Clark 664 skidder and trade it for a Cat 518 or 525 cable machine and make the 240 my spare machine and the one I use to pull trucks in and out with. I want a machine with a dealer that stocks parts and does not have 10 different models they stock parts for and none of them mine. When it come to ordering parts. The Timberjack no longer has a dealer ship the Clark dealership is gone and I can order parts for either machine over the phone and pay for overnight shipping to get the wrong part almost 50 percent of the time. I am willing to pay more for a part and walk in and get it than wait couple of days for a part. by the time you spring for the overnight shipping and now figure for lost time; it makes the off brand parts just has expensive as Cats parts now.. Like I said in my dream world

It may be a long shot but there is a Timberjack dealership in Texas ... the only remaining one. Texas Timberjack,

Lufkin Branch
Texas Timberjack Inc.
6004 South First Street
Lufkin, Texas 75901
Ph: (936) 634-3365
Fax: (936) 639-3673

Jasper Branch
Jasper Equipment
Hwy 190 West
Jasper, Texas 75951
Ph: (409) 384-4611
Fax: (409) 384-6550

Cleveland Branch
Texas Timberjack of Cleveland
753 Highway 59 South
Cleveland, Texas 77327
Ph: (281) 592-4959

Scott

 

[treecutter395]

6bta

Nice work. . . ..ever think about a Cummins 6BTA instead of the jimmy?

im cutting infront of a 240 that has a cummins that has 219 hp it drags 1500 feet a drag and the skidder man is dragging in 3rd n 4th gear were moving 15 thousand a day its been way better than the 4 cyl detroit and i love the 353 a simple motor

 

[jay_d]

im cutting infront of a 240 that has a cummins that has 219 hp it drags 1500 feet a drag and the skidder man is dragging in 3rd n 4th gear were moving 15 thousand a day its been way better than the 4 cyl detroit and i love the 353 a simple motor

sounds about right, 15000 feet is about equal to 75 tons or 3 truck loads right?

if you had a grapple skidder it would drag around 35000 feet in a day :hmm3grin2orange:

where did you find a 219 hp cummins small enough to jam in a 240? i thought the biggest 6bt you could get was 200hp

 

[treecutter395]

lol ever hear about turning up the pump and advancing the timing here where im located the 4 and 6 bt was designed and built from his hands and he knows what it takes to quote juice it up and btw this motor come out of a school bus it is rated at 210 hp from factory with out turning it up but its been turned up

 

[plasticweld]

Did they change the transmission also. I had looked into doing the same thing, buying a bus and putting in motor and Alison trans but with the measurements I had it would not fit. The trans is week on the 240 and while I would love to have more power my guess it would come at the cost of braking other stuff. I would love to have a cumming in my machine I used to have a Clark 666 Dixie Special which came with a heavy drive line and a 6 cylinder cummins that made about a 170 horse. It was a pulling machine and I wish I had never sold it. The trans and drive line were almost double the size of the Timber Jack.. I would love to find something that made 150 horse and did not leak oil and make me deaf

 

[Cletuspsc]

A 6bt should fit with a manual trans. You would need to move your motor mounts forward a few inches and the clearance between the radiator and the fan is close, there are a few different fans you can run on the cummins and i would put the larger plastic one that runs off the idler pulley instead of the crank to get it up out of the belly pan. Does your machine have the allison auto or the 4spd std.

 

[plasticweld]

I have the 4 speed which has bee rebuilt twice since I have owned the machine. I am sure it would not stand more power it is already the weak link. Let me know if you know of a transmission that will bolt up to the cummings. I have a reverser in mine so it is not just a simple switch. I looked at using the Alison with the idea I would have only one gear in reverse instead of the 8 I now have with a high and low and 4 speeds.

 

[treecutter395]

Did they change the transmission also. I had looked into doing the same thing, buying a bus and putting in motor and Alison trans but with the measurements I had it would not fit. The trans is week on the 240 and while I would love to have more power my guess it would come at the cost of braking other stuff. I would love to have a cumming in my machine I used to have a Clark 666 Dixie Special which came with a heavy drive line and a 6 cylinder cummins that made about a 170 horse. It was a pulling machine and I wish I had never sold it. The trans and drive line were almost double the size of the Timber Jack.. I would love to find something that made 150 horse and did not leak oil and make me deaf

they are using the same transmission and the 6bt in a school bus is 215 hp. it took some mod work but its a real tight fit and as far as the transmission they make a heavier transmission that takes the place of the regular transmission for 3600.00 the intake is the biggest challenge hooking it up and yes the fan is a real tight fit

 

[plasticweld]

they are using the same transmission and the 6bt in a school bus is 215 hp. it took some mod work but its a real tight fit and as far as the transmission they make a heavier transmission that takes the place of the regular transmission for 3600.00 the intake is the biggest challenge hooking it up and yes the fan is a real tight fit

Who is they, for $3,600 I will order one today

 

[treecutter395]

brent daniels in mooresville indiana he just deals with timberjack parts.this tranny is for a 240 a that had a 453 detroit in it. i dont know his phone # but use 411 and they will give you a # for him and he does answer on sunday`s