Need advice on chainsaw for CSM

Hey,

I'm new to milling, but am eager to set up a chainsaw mill and need advice on what to get. My grandfather has a number of trees on his property that he's willing to let me cut (both standing and freshly fallen...walnut, maple, ash, pecan, pear, and more).

I'm doing this to feed my woodworking, so I'm guessing that I won't be cutting more than 10 trees or so per year (in part due to stacking room restrictions), but I want something that I can use for years to come. I don't know exact sizes of trees that I'll be dealing with, but I'm thinking that a 30" bar would be about as big as I'd get (unless someone strongly recommends otherwise).

From what I've picked up, the Alaskan MKIII would be good to go with whatever chainsaw I get. I'm guessing I'd need something in the 70-85 cc range, but need advice on exactly what chainsaw would be good (I assume a Stihl or Husqvarna). I don't mind a slightly older one, as I'm fairly handy at fixing/working with small engines.

Any recommendations/advice would be greatly appreciated!

Thank you,
Tyler

Depends on what you want to $pend...

I have an MS 660 and 36" Granberg Alaska III..I am pretty happy with...

it does have drawbacks...slow and uses alot of bd ft in the kerf..

Woodshop has a CSM and a Ripsaw that he uses in tandem to
reduce waste and clean up surfaces...

then there is the Skillmill from peterson...if ya wanta blow 4 grand I hear it is a good deal on a quiet electric swing mill...I want one.

toys.

30" bar year looking at cutting 24" or so cants...good size..but there is always THAT tree...I like the 36" and the 90cc saw range...you can always put a smaller bar on a bigger saw, but going the other way tends to wear stuff out...

and you will not be satisfied with only one saw...fair warning..I thought I would be...a year later I have three...

good luck there is wealth of knowledege and experience here...from hacks like me to the truly whacked like Aggie...:greenchainsaw:

I'm definitely not looking to spend huge amounts of money (like $4K for that Skillmill), but I also recognize that these things can get decently expensive.

I plan on keeping the focus of my wood time on woodworking rather than lumber milling, although if chainsaws are anything like handplanes, I'll have a collection started in no time. But for now, I'd like to just get a decent chainsaw without emptying my bank account. Since I'll only be doing limited quantities of trees per year, I'm also not quite as concerned with cutting rates.

--Tyler

Have a look at this http://www.logosol.com/_sawmills/bigmillsystem/. You can work standing up and don't have to lean round the saw. It's an expandable system too.

To save money, you could use a 064 or a 084 and do necessary repairs, that way you get a good saw for a big saving.

heh....wait'll you start turning fresh slabs over...it's like opening a new christmas present every pass....you think planes are addictive...

i sense a new addict in the making...you obviusly have a love of wood..

If you are going to routinely cut 24-30" hardwoods, I would look at the 90-100+ cc saws. The smaller saws will get it done, but mill is very hard on saws.

I would look at an older 066 or 394/395. There are 084's and 3120's out there, but usually they are up there in price.

I would get the most saw your money can buy.

Then you are going to need a smaller saw for topping/limbing after you fell it.

It really is a never ending cycle. Welcome to the madness!

Freakingstang said:

If you are going to routinely cut 24-30" hardwoods, I would look at the 90-100+ cc saws. The smaller saws will get it done, but mill is very hard on saws.

I would look at an older 066 or 394/395. There are 084's and 3120's out there, but usually they are up there in price.

I would get the most saw your money can buy.

Then you are going to need a smaller saw for topping/limbing after you fell it.

It really is a never ending cycle. Welcome to the madness!

Click to expand...

This is all good advice and right on the mark. You can get away with using a 75cc saw like an MS460, but anything smaller will just not work well for anything more than 12 inches wide.

I wouldn't go less than an 066/660 or 394/395. You can find them used for pretty reasonable, and you will have not only the power you need, but a good bucking saw for the larger logs.

Go to Bailey's site and get the 42" Oregon PowerMatch bar, it's about $80 and has served me well. Buy three loops of the Woodsman Pro ripping chain and you are set. Well, almost. You need a guide too. I usually take a 10ft 2x8, rechargable drill, and a handful of 3" "zip" screws. A carpenter's square and a cheap black marker come in handy too.

Mark

It sounds like something in the 90cc range is agreed upon by everyone, like a 064/066/660 or 394/395. Bigger is always better, eh? Any recommendations on what prices I should be looking to pay for such chainsaws (assuming decent condition, maybe some TLC needed).

Mark - I haven't really gotten into studying chains yet, as I've been focusing on the chainsaw first (although I've learned a fair bit, including knowing the differences between how you grind a crosscut chain and a rip chain). As for the Woodsman Pro ripping chains, most of what I saw had a 0.375" pitch, and one had a 0.404" pitch. Would I want the 0.375" pitch?

Thanks a bunch for the advice!

--Tyler

OneStaple said:

It sounds like something in the 90cc range is agreed upon by everyone, like a 064/066/660 or 394/395. Bigger is always better, eh? Any recommendations on what prices I should be looking to pay for such chainsaws (assuming decent condition, maybe some TLC needed).

Mark - I haven't really gotten into studying chains yet, as I've been focusing on the chainsaw first (although I've learned a fair bit, including knowing the differences between how you grind a crosscut chain and a rip chain). As for the Woodsman Pro ripping chains, most of what I saw had a 0.375" pitch, and one had a 0.404" pitch. Would I want the 0.375" pitch?

Thanks a bunch for the advice!

--Tyler

Click to expand...

Do some searching, you will find more. I run 3/8's (.375) on everything...even the 3120.

Mark

You are where I was 6 months ago... I ended up getting an 066, a 42" Oregon Powermatch bar, and the 36" mill. This gives me the 34" of clear cutting or so that I never thought I'd use, until those 22" oaks had beautiful forks in the trunks, and now I've got some beautiful crotch wood. Heed all advice here about saws being addictive, flipping over slabs being like X-mas, and seeing trees as pre-assembled boards.

I got the 066 on ebay for about 300. Needed some work, but the 066 is quite popular and there are many parts available, and even aftermarket parts like pistons and cylinders - much cheaper than the Stihl dealer. The 42" bar lets me clamp the mill on the bar without clamping on the tip, and leaves room for the brake to work yet too. Once I got a hang of the 066, I really like it.

Things I've learned:
Keep your chains sharp. I didn't realize how they dulled after 8 cuts or so, but once I put a sharp chain on, the cutting is faster (and fuel consumption and physical effort to push the mill are down). I'm teaching myself to sharpen my own chain now with a file and guide, and now that I made a jig to hold the chain, with angle marks, it has been quite easy. (I had the dealer really mess up one of my chains... grrr)

Keep your chain out of the dirt, keep the dirt off the logs, or scrape the bark off if you can. Dirt + chains = dull.

Keep the 24" bar if you get one with your saw. I use it plenty for the smaller logs... takes less power to run, and it is probably a bit safer. Oh, that 42" bar is HEAVY. (I work in an office all day)

Like getting a truck, having a mill will get you friends... enjoy it.

I've used ripping and non-ripping chain to slab wood... they both work, but the ripping chain is smoother. I'll eventually regrind my cross cut chains down to 10 degrees with a few more sharpenings. (I'm still frustrated with the dealer who messed up my chain)

For what it is worth, I follow the 50:1 fuelil mix suggestions per Stihl. I know it is like arguing religion, politics and abortion all at once, but I encourage you to make up your own mind about what mix to use... read the forums a bit for various arguments.

Have plenty of space for air drying wood, and storing dry wood. The addiction will add up.

For what it is worth, I stuck with the not-too-old Stihl, as I knew I could get bars, parts etc. I had an option for an equal size, but much older off brand saw, but the availability of parts was a question. I'm glad I went with the Stihl. Husky would be fine too, but I just happened to get the Stihl first.

Be patient if you buy on ebay, be cautious also. Keep your eyes open on Craigslist too. Post a wanted ad. Quality is remembered long after price is forgotten.

I found some chains on ebay... with patience, I found rock bottom prices for new, name-brand chains. There are much more expensive ones out there too...

Be aware of the quantity of sawdust you are going to make... have a use, or way to dispose of it. Clean up your detritus when you leave to keep the land owner happy, and willing to ask you back.

A small saw is handy as that big saw for milling is awfully heavy if you use it all day for limbing etc. Get a set of Kevlar chaps, wear ear and eye protection, be careful, get friends with strong backs, and persuadable minds to help you move the slabs. Size up the logs carefully, to figure out what grain pattern you want out of the log. There is some beautiful stuff out there that the loggers don't want because of the knots and branching. Their loss!

If you get a chance to elevate the log a few feet off the ground, do it, it is much easier on your back.

Let me know what sort of power hand planer is best for taking most of the rough mill marks off before final hand planing in the shop. That will probably be my next purchase. Any one have one available?

I now dream about a 60" or larger bar with two power heads. I figure I can make longer (fixed length) rails for the 36" mill parts easily, but I would expect to need at least another 044 on the other end to properly power the set up. If the right deal comes along on the power head, I'll start the saw collection, and then wait for the big tree.

Hope that helps...

glennschumann said:

Things I've learned:
Let me know what sort of power hand planer is best for taking most of the rough mill marks off before final hand planing in the shop. That will probably be my next purchase. Any one have one available?

...

Click to expand...

Rigid is making a nice little unit...haven't used it but I use alot of rigid tools and have been happy...

OneStaple said:

It sounds like something in the 90cc range is agreed upon by everyone, like a 064/066/660 or 394/395. Bigger is always better, eh? Any recommendations on what prices I should be looking to pay for such chainsaws.... As for the Woodsman Pro ripping chains, most of what I saw had a 0.375" pitch, and one had a 0.404" pitch. Would I want the 0.375" pitch?

Click to expand...

Tyler as was said, you really don't need .404 pitch for what you will be doing. It takes more power and wastes more of your wood. Use .375 unless you're using a smaller bar, say 20 and under, then use .375LP chain, which will go down the log much easier.

Ballpark used saw prices (very ballpark...) are about half the price of a new one.

Hand power planer... I'm assuming by your post that you don't own a jointer and/or thickness planer. I don't own a power hand planer but I have used the Bosch power planer and was pleased with how much power it had, and how easily it fit into my hand. If you're going to be dressing up rough lumber though, be prepared to go through a lot of blades. Even "clean looking" rough lumber contains lots of windblown grit and fine dirt from sitting outside stickered for a year.

My Stihl 075 auto oiler plus auxiliary manual oiler was a good purchase, used, from a reputable dealer, not the prettiest but has plenty of power, and cost a lot less than a newer saw, and parts don't seem to be an issue either.

The mill is a GB, the bar is 42", .404( changing to .375 when it wears out)

Now, I have also used my 460 with 32" bar in soft maple
24" bar in ash
20" bar in ash, oak, maple

No problems with any of these setups, using the right size bar for the log maximizes the saws power to the job at hand.

Check out Woodshops pics and narration on the ripsaw/csm combo.

You'll have plenty of fun along the way.

Thanks again for all the replies, especially the long and good advice from glennschumann. It's always very helpful to learn from people who have knowledge.

I'll start poking around for something like an 066 and see if I can come across a deal. Do you guys see the Alaskan MKIII's for sale very often on places like ebay?

I did manage to come across an old Stihl 032AV on craigslist that's been sitting for a little while and thus doesn't start. I figure I'll tinker with the carb and stuff and try to get it running while looking for a 066. It could also work as a secondary chainsaw for cutting limbs. Was $40 a decent price to pay for this (no bar or chain, seems to be in decent condition although it doesn't start...guy said he had it started a year ago but it didn't run wonderfully at the time cause it'd been sitting for a few years before that)?

And Zopi, you're right. It took me all of a few days to decide I "needed" another chainsaw. I'm going down a slippery slope. I can feel it.

glennschumann - I haven't used any power hand planers. The bigger (12" size) thickness planers are a bit more expensive, but much much easier to use. I just graduated from grad school so I haven't been able to buy one yet, but I plan on doing so soon. The other option is using (unpowered) hand planes (which is what I've done up to this point). It's quieter and you get a bit of a workout. However, the learning curve is a fair bit steeper, especially in learning to REALLY sharpen the blades. But a set of hand planes (scrub to help with initial flattening, jointer, fore or jack, and smoother) can make boards dead flat and amazingly smooth (some say better than sandpaper). You can also handle much larger boards than a thickness planer. I know this might not be the direction you were looking to take things when asking about power hand planes, but feel free to ask me if you want further info.

Thanks again!
--Tyler

wdchuck said:

My Stihl 075 auto oiler plus auxiliary manual oiler was a good purchase, used, from a reputable dealer, not the prettiest but has plenty of power, and cost a lot less than a newer saw, and parts don't seem to be an issue either.

The mill is a GB, the bar is 42", .404( changing to .375 when it wears out)

Now, I have also used my 460 with 32" bar in soft maple
24" bar in ash
20" bar in ash, oak, maple

No problems with any of these setups, using the right size bar for the log maximizes the saws power to the job at hand.

Click to expand...

I've milled with everything from an old stihl 031 (48cc's). Largest I milled with that was a 22 inch diameter yellow birch. I milled a lot with a 58cc 60's vintage Pioneer Holiday. Largest I milled with that 30 inch maple. Many other 60 cc and under saws were also run on the alaskan. My current set up is a pair of Pioneer p51's 82cc's, each on a separate alaskan. All my saws run a 24 inch bar and lp milling chain. The lp milling chain makes all the difference in the world.

as stated by wdchuck, bar size matters. 2 reasons. #1 a shorter bar is always safer if it can be used. I cringe when I see pics of someoner milling a 12 inch log with a 36 inch bar. Milling is hard tiring work. Often on uneven terrain. Slip just once, and you can loose a hand. I personally don't want that.

2nd, its always easier on the saw to run a shorter bar. Milling is a workout for a saw. Running a shorter bar and lp chain reduces at least some of the strain on the saw.

For me, like wdchuck, an old reliable saw is the way to go. One of the most important things I've learned milling is the torque of the saw is extremely important. Old saws are torque monsters.

I mill wood for my furniture business. Like your plans, I use all the wood I mill for woodworking. I mainly build tables, but also large cabinets, entertainment centers, as well as smaller items.

I';ve used power hand planers, and personally don't like them one bit. If I'm going to hand plane, pass me a hand plane that I have complete control over. If your talking about a stationary benchtop planer, rigid/ryobi is hard to beat for the money. They are EXACTLY the same machine, except for the color of the plastic on them. All the internals are the same. Ryobi can usually be purchased cheaper. I just saw them in home depot for $199

My first post here. What everyone said is right. I have a Mk III that I use for smaller stuff. I haven't picked up my bandsaw mill yet.

Since 12" is the largest I do, I use a Dolmar 6500 with a 32" bar. No complaints yet. I may upgrade to the biggest Dolmar (90cc I think) and a longer bar,,,but so far, I haven't seen the need.

It is very addictive though.

BTW, I know some of you from other boards. Howdy!

peter nap said:

...It is very addictive though...

Click to expand...

Understatement

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