New OWB advice needed

shop deals on amazon
Treestuff
Advertise with us
Arborist Forum

Help Support Arborist Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
K

KRB64

ArboristSite Lurker
Joined
Sep 13, 2007
Messages
34
Reaction score
2
Location
Central KY
I've spent a lot of time on here searching and reading and have learned a lot. At least enough to make some decisions and formulate a plan - and have a bunch of questions!

So I have a Taylor 450 thats about 90' from the house. I'll slide a heat exchanger into my existing air handler. I plan to keep my forced air propane as back up. A good old simple round Honewell thermostat contols the propane furnace right now. As I start to finalize things, here are my questions:

From what I've learned from here, I can install an aquastat at the OWB that will kick on the propane if the fire goes out and still utilize only one home thermostat. Question #1: what size/type wire needs to go from the aquastat to the thermostat (and which aquastat do you recommend)? I have the trench open and will start laying line as weather allows.

I think I want the pump to only run when the house thermostat calls for heat (right?). I plan to enlist the aid of a knowledgable HVAC person but want to know what I'm talking about. Question #2: Is the pump controlled by the house thermostat too then? Anyone thats done this have a basic schematic to accoplish this?

I'm tapping into my domestic hot water. From this site I realized I'll need a mixing valve for safety. Question #3: Is it installed on the outlet side of my electric hot water tank (which is feed by the OWB)? And I assume it has a cold water port for the mixing part, is the thing adjustable?

Sorry for all the questions and thanks in advance for any help.:cheers:
 
I have an indoor wood coal boiler that is inside my detached garage. I also have forced air heat ( with electric backup ) the way I did it was to simply run two thermostats. One works the electric heat and one run ONLY the blower on my air handler.

I continually run my Taco 007 pump. The heated water circulates 24/7. The reason for this is that the pump will last longer ( according to the Taco rep ) and also my domestic water heat exchanger is a brazed plate exchanger that is right beside my water heater tank..

So, since the water circulates continiously, when my house calls for heat, the only thing that turns on is the blower inside my air handler. If i don't get home in time to tend to my boiler and the water cools to the point where it isn't heating my house anymore, the electric will kick on. I
I set the thermostat for the boiler at 72 degrees and the thermostat for the electric heat at 68 degrees.
 
Last edited:
I agree with ktm:agree2: The easiest, simplest, least trouble-free way to do this is a separate t-stat. I hooked mine up to a separate relay/transformer, providing 24v. to the t-stat/relay. That runs the fan, and the secondary circ. that I have on the loop going to the hydrocoil. Honeywell RA-89A, or R8330 relays fill the bill. I assume all OWB's run the circ. 24/7, overheating probs. would be often and damaging, leave that alone. This may be my first season running an OWB, but one thing I'm dang sure glad I did: oversize your hydrocoil! I can heat the house/shop with as low as 150 deg. water, with outside temps. as low as 20 deg. Go with as large of coil as you can possibly fit in your duct/plenum.
 
KRB 64,

If I understand your setup correctly, your pump will need to run 24/7 to be of any use for the domestic hot water heating capability. Otherwise you would need some kind of secondary way to control the pump when there is a demand for domestic hot water but I think that would just over complicate things.

You are just ahead of me in your install so I have been asking the same kind of questions. One other consideration on running the pump 24/7. This keeps your loop at operating temp constantly. That way there is no lag caused by a decline in the loop temp. Maybe not a big concern for a well insulated setup though.
 
Shaver instructions

Good info in the shaver instructions. Looks like they use a separate loop all the way back to the OWB for the domestic hot water using a dedicated (second) pump. They also talk about running the pump on the main loop 24/7 for extreme distances (over 200 feet) to avoid any lag in the delivery of heat.
 
24/7?

My Taylor 750 only runs the pumps when the thermostat calls for heat. It takes about 1 minute to get hot air blowing.

IMHO, wouldn't this prolong the heat in the tank? If I don't need heat in the house, why would I run hot water from the tank? Seems then I'd burn more wood to keep the tank temp at 160.

Or am I missing some basic logic?
 
Scrapiron said:
My Taylor 750 only runs the pumps when the thermostat calls for heat. It takes about 1 minute to get hot air blowing.

IMHO, wouldn't this prolong the heat in the tank? If I don't need heat in the house, why would I run hot water from the tank? Seems then I'd burn more wood to keep the tank temp at 160.

Or am I missing some basic logic?
Click to expand...

I think if your heat loss is minimal than your additional wood comsuption would also be minimal.
 
Scrapiron said:
My Taylor 750 only runs the pumps when the thermostat calls for heat. It takes about 1 minute to get hot air blowing.

IMHO, wouldn't this prolong the heat in the tank? If I don't need heat in the house, why would I run hot water from the tank? Seems then I'd burn more wood to keep the tank temp at 160.

Or am I missing some basic logic?
Click to expand...

How far away is your Taylor from the house? If your lines are well insulated then you shouldn't have any appreciable heat loss running the pump all the time. It's basically a trade off between pump wear, electricity consumption (for the pump), lag for the delivery of heat. If you are okay with the 1 minute lag for heat then you are fine. In some cases it boils down to splitting hairs but in others it could make a big difference over time.
 
My stove is about 75' from the house (I really need to measure). New PEX lines installed about 8yrs ago when the 450 was replaced with the 750. It's always been run this way (previous owner)- pump kicks on when thermostat calls for heat.

I do need to measure heat loss to see what it is.

If the pumps are running- what is the effect of $ to run and effect to the pump (vs. starting and stopping)?

Thanks-
 
Scrapiron said:
My stove is about 75' from the house (I really need to measure). New PEX lines installed about 8yrs ago when the 450 was replaced with the 750. It's always been run this way (previous owner)- pump kicks on when thermostat calls for heat.

I do need to measure heat loss to see what it is.

If the pumps are running- what is the effect of $ to run and effect to the pump (vs. starting and stopping)?

Thanks-
Click to expand...

Some say starting and stopping the pump will cause more wear than letting it run continuously. I don't have any data either way. I do know there's no wear on it when its not running so they must be talking about # of starts on the pump motor. If you have been running this way for a long time I don't think you have anything to worry about. Like I said, sometimes it gets to where we are just splitting hairs.
 
Hmmmm... lots to consider! Thanks for all the input!:cheers:

The Shaver sites have lots of good info, thanks. Way more than what Taylor provides. Will take some time to read through though.

I guess I should just simplify and just run anouther Honeywell ET87A Thermostat and get a HVAC guy to wire in my existing Goodman propane furnace to utilize the blower to run when the OWB thermo calls for heat.

But if I do that, if the OWB goes out and the propane kicks on will the fan run continously because the OWB thermo says it needs heat??? mtfallsmikey, An engineer friend of mine (mechanical) recommends running the pump only on demand. I've got people telling me both ways - issues, issues! 24/7 seems to make sense to keep the lines & tank from freezing if the fire goes out but doesn't it also cool down the vent air temps?

I'mstihlaguy, I'm following your posts as we seem to have similar issues/questions/concerns. A Taylor has a seperate circuit for domestic hot water that is fed directly off a potable water line with no pump. Water pressure moves it into the house domestic hot water heater when you open the tap. Thats why I was asking about a mixing valve.

All these questions are based on the assumption that the OWB will be my primary heat with propane only as an emergency. But since I have not yet used an OWB in real life, my concern is that propane MAY be called for regulary since we both work days and kid's schedules and work load means we sometimes aren't home until late. Maybe I'm just being paranoid?
 
KRB64 said:
Hmmmm... lots to consider! Thanks for all the input!:cheers:

The Shaver sites have lots of good info, thanks. Way more than what Taylor provides. Will take some time to read through though.

I guess I should just simplify and just run another Honeywell ET87A Thermostat and get a HVAC guy to wire in my existing Goodman propane furnace to utilize the blower to run when the OWB thermo calls for heat.

But if I do that, if the OWB goes out and the propane kicks on will the fan run continously because the OWB thermo says it needs heat??? mtfallsmikey, An engineer friend of mine (mechanical) recommends running the pump only on demand. I've got people telling me both ways - issues, issues! 24/7 seems to make sense to keep the lines & tank from freezing if the fire goes out but doesn't it also cool down the vent air temps?

I'mstihlaguy, I'm following your posts as we seem to have similar issues/questions/concerns. A Taylor has a seperate circuit for domestic hot water that is fed directly off a potable water line with no pump. Water pressure moves it into the house domestic hot water heater when you open the tap. Thats why I was asking about a mixing valve.

All these questions are based on the assumption that the OWB will be my primary heat with propane only as an emergency. But since I have not yet used an OWB in real life, my concern is that propane MAY be called for regularly since we both work days and kid's schedules and work load means we sometimes aren't home until late. Maybe I'm just being paranoid?
Click to expand...

if this helps - I heat the 3000 sqft single level home with a 3 circuit Taylor 750. (1=DHW,2=left side house,3=right side house). We keep the thermostats on 73 all day. I have one for each house circuit. I wired in two separate $45 thermostats and relays. When heat is called for it turns on the Taylor pump and the Forced air blower. - the forced air system thermostat is set 5 degrees lower than the Taylor one - so if the Taylor goes out, 5 degrees later the heat pump kicks in. The houses reaches temperature - satisfying both thermostats and turns everything off. In real life though - read on - I have the heat pump system thermostat turned off - I never need it and it stops the kids turning the wrong thermostat up or usually down:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

in 20 degree temps - I fill my Taylor once at 5:30 Am and once at 6:30 pm - it is never near going out. It would relight 24 hours after a fill and the water temp would still be at 130 - enough to keep the house warm. My supplemental emergency heat has never had to kick on. - In other words you will be fine.

In the summer i throw one log in morning and night and it keeps the DHW going and does not produce much creosote - every so often - when i have some - i will do a hot cardboard burn to help clean.

Overall I am satisfied with the Taylor. I like the fact that even though I am using 3 circuits -0 I still have one left for the spa/pool I might build if my stocks are ever worth more than loose change :)
 
Thanks, that does make me feel better. My house is half your size so the 450 should work fine. The scenario you describe is what I anticipate based on all I've talked to and read. Thanks for confirming.
 
KRB64

I didn't know the Taylors had a separate DHW loop. Sorry if I came off trying to sound like a know-it-all, just didn't understand. I have the mixing valve question as well but I am using brazed plate exchangers that preheat the water just before it enters each hot water heater.
 
stephen44

I also have a 750 taylor & heat 4300 sq ft -house,shop. I put wood in 10-pm,again at 7 to 8-am,then again at 3to 4 pm. Seems like alot to me? Where you setting your blower at? I keep the blower door about 1/2 to 2/3 open.
 
time warp said:
I also have a 750 taylor & heat 4300 sq ft -house,shop. I put wood in 10-pm,again at 7 to 8-am,then again at 3to 4 pm. Seems like alot to me? Where you setting your blower at? I keep the blower door about 1/2 to 2/3 open.
Click to expand...

closed and the aquastat at 160
 

Similar threads

B
Sidearm heat exchanger reverse heating
Replies
2
Views
264
rancher2
R
PowellJL
Best insulated boiler lines
Replies
6
Views
405
HavinFun
H
TNTreeHugger
Natural Gas Heater Advice
2 3
Replies
53
Views
2K
GenXer
GenXer
jhellwig
Garage heating options
2 3 4
Replies
61
Views
4K
GenXer
GenXer
E
Central Boiler owner w/ issues
Replies
5
Views
2K
OH_Varmntr
OH_Varmntr

Latest posts

Back
Top