mill weight

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texx

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i am going to build a mill to fit onto my 076 , today i have been going back through a lot of the old threads on home made c/s mills and i am a tad worried re what the weight is going to be .
bobs bil mill comes in at around 70 odd pound and its ally mine will have to be steel because i dont have any ally welding gear i have stick welder and i have lp/oxy gear .
i want the mill to take a 50 inch bar , so unless i can work out a way of making it in ally and bolting the whole thing together ( ill give that some thought tonight ) the thing will have to be all steel , would like to know if anyone else had made an all steel mill to take the bigger bars and if so how many ton did it weigh .
p.s i have tried gas welding ally and failed big time though it was on thin irrigation pipe.
 
i am going to build a mill to fit onto my 076 , today i have been going back through a lot of the old threads on home made c/s mills and i am a tad worried re what the weight is going to be .
bobs bil mill comes in at around 70 odd pound and its ally mine will have to be steel because i dont have any ally welding gear i have stick welder and i have lp/oxy gear .
i want the mill to take a 50 inch bar , so unless i can work out a way of making it in ally and bolting the whole thing together ( ill give that some thought tonight ) the thing will have to be all steel , would like to know if anyone else had made an all steel mill to take the bigger bars and if so how many ton did it weigh .
p.s i have tried gas welding ally and failed big time though it was on thin irrigation pipe.

I thought you could stick weld aluminum if you had the proper rods and settings? I'm no expert, but I'm sure there are a few members that know for sure!!!

Ted
 
i believe that there is a rod for that but from what i have read it is not very successful .
i will find out more about though just in case it is an option .
am also considering pop rivets
 
i am going to build a mill to fit onto my 076 , today i have been going back through a lot of the old threads on home made c/s mills and i am a tad worried re what the weight is going to be .
bobs bil mill comes in at around 70 odd pound and its ally mine will have to be steel because i dont have any ally welding gear i have stick welder and i have lp/oxy gear .
That's 70 lbs with the 076 and 64" rails with 60" bar and chain.
The 076 has no chain brake and a much lighter clutch housing than stock
All up it's a bit lighter with the 880 and the 42" bar and chain.

Everything on the BIL mill is over engineered, and apart from having to lift it, it is built for comfort. eg I used 10 mm bolts whereas 8 mm would have been fine. I have about a lb of brass dome nuts on the thing whereas regular nuts would have been more sensible. There are also brass wheel bearings whereas plastic would have been fine. The oil reservoir is ally - plastic would be OK. It has all thread height adjustments and cranks and locking cams - none of these are essential, but having used BIL and those that use only bolt height adjustment, I know the BIL mill is MUCH easier to use.

The times I'm lifting this sucker are, onto and off the mill, in and out of my van, and on and off my workbench. The rest of the time - even through the open bush - it is wheeled around on a set of easily detachable wheels - it even stands up by itself for a full compressor blow down.
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Someday I'm gonna build a racing version and see how far I can pare the weight down - I'm thinking carbon fibre and Ti :jawdrop:
The 10 seconds it takes to lift it on and off the log is more than made up for with the milling features - some of the slabs I cut take me 20 minutes to cut through.

i want the mill to take a 50 inch bar , so unless i can work out a way of making it in ally and bolting the whole thing together ( ill give that some thought tonight ) the thing will have to be all steel , would like to know if anyone else had made an all steel mill to take the bigger bars and if so how many ton did it weigh .
p.s i have tried gas welding ally and failed big time though it was on thin irrigation pipe.

The main thing you will need to decide is how the mill connects onto the bar. Then everything flows from there.
If you decide on conventional bar clamps only the T-pieces of the bar clamps need welding and everything else can be bolted together.

Whatever you do I would recommend using ally rails. In this picture you can see the Granberg mill rails (black) compared to the BILL mill Highway Sign Unistrust rails.
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The ally unistrut is about AUS$100 for 20 ft length (probably half that price in the US). This will give you enough rails for 2 mills eg 2 x 50 for your 50" bar and 2 x 60 for a longer mill and some left over for a cross piece linking pieces (red arrows) like this.
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If you can find 1/4" thick 2 x 3" ally angle like I used for the inboard and outboard cross brackets (see "A" on diagram) they can easily bolt onto to the unistrut (as I have on mine) and then you can bolt single vertical bar clamps to those brackets using a U clamp or thru bolts. The the vertical upright bar clamps can be in steel. You will have strength and less weight.
 
i believe that there is a rod for that but from what i have read it is not very successful .
i will find out more about though just in case it is an option .
am also considering pop rivets

The vibe from an 076 will destroy ally pop rivets that are under any sort of load - the ally rubs and wears and loosens and gets worse until - gorne!. Fittings on a CS mill really need to be able to tighten and retighten. Steel Pop rivets on steel would be better but rivets are too much of a one way/use operation/fitting. Bolts are much better all round.
 
bob i started making it today and i am bolting a 6 mm steel plate to the saw bar studs to mount the mill to , thats all i got done cut the plates inner and outer drilled them and put them on the saw thats when i sat down and thought this is going to be heavy.
but i also thought that once its up on the rails heavy is good more stable and secure just heavy to get in position .
oh yeah and i have taken off the chain brake handle .and the dogs
i then thought if i use 2mm rhs it may not be to bad and its cheap enough that if it dont work i can scrap it and start again.
wish it would rain then i have a good excuse to build this and not be out fixing fences like i should be .and plowing , and shifting irrigation pipes , and ,and and .
dont think that ally strut stuff will be easy to get for me unless some one in toowoomba has it..
 
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just reading through your post and yep all that brass probably does add up to a lot of weight .
 
bob i started making it today and i am bolting a 6 mm steel plate to the saw bar studs to mount the mill to , thats all i got done cut the plates inner and outer drilled them and put them on the saw thats when i sat down and thought this is going to be heavy.

How wide is the plate? If it's regular steel the bolts that clamp it to the bar will need to fit neatly and close to the chain otherwise the steel plate will bend under the pressure needed to clamp the bar. Remember if those clamps slips the chain hits steel bolts (another good reason the use ally!) . You will be better off with 2 mm RHS to make the clamps. My little mill (see below) uses 19mm (3/4") x 2 mm SHS clamps but its only a little saw (50cc) I'd be going for t least 25 mm (1") for the 076. The rest of the frame is 25 mm (1"). It was a fun first build but the design is not that good - it only takes 12 to 24" bars . Unistrut mill rails are so much better than welded fixed frames.

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but i also thought that once its up on the rails heavy is good more stable and secure just heavy to get in position .
Correct

oh yeah and i have taken off the chain brake handle .and the dogs
You will still need something to cover the chain otherwise oil sawdust will get into the engine and hit the exhaust and spray crap all over your legs. I made this cover as a temp measure for the 076 and I never bothered to change it. Aggiewood butcher has a simpler system still - see Milling 101 sticky thread above.

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i then thought if i use 2mm rhs it may not be to bad and its cheap enough that if it dont work i can scrap it and start again.
Yep - that was why I made my small mill out of it.

wish it would rain then i have a good excuse to build this and not be out fixing fences like i should be .and plowing , and shifting irrigation pipes and, and, . . . .
Yep - know what u mean.

and I dont think that ally strut stuff will be easy to get for me unless some one in toowoomba has it.
Pity because its good stuff. I used that same stuff to make roof racks for may van - I can pick it up from Capral basically down the road from my place. I'd ship some to you but long stuff costs as much to to move around the country as it does to buy. It's really stupid because I took two 50" lengths and a 12" cross piece with me checked luggage on the plane from Perth to Melbourne at no charge! I sold a couple of pieces to FOrum member Martrix for his mill.
 
with the bar nuts done up tight i do have enough room to beef up the outside plate to 10mm instead of 6mm and i do have some here handy so i may do that today add another pound but will be stronger and not so likely to bend or flex.
just that when ever i build anything it always ends up super heavy duty and i was trying to avoid that with this thing .
a couple of pics you can see the inside plate ( 6mm ) that i shaped to the same shape as the bar but about 1/8" smaller all around just so the chain isnt running to close to the plate that the mill will be built on.
 
with the bar nuts done up tight i do have enough room to beef up the outside plate to 10mm instead of 6mm and i do have some here handy so i may do that today add another pound but will be stronger and not so likely to bend or flex.
just that when ever i build anything it always ends up super heavy duty and i was trying to avoid that with this thing .
a couple of pics you can see the inside plate ( 6mm ) that i shaped to the same shape as the bar but about 1/8" smaller all around just so the chain isnt running to close to the plate that the mill will be built on.

OK I sort of see what you are doing. 6 mm is fine in that situation. BUT the plate does not need to be wider that the bar at the bar bolts so you could save weight there by using narrower bar and install the chain guard plate between the bar and the plate. It all depends on how the rest of the mill connects to that bar but ideally you don't want to lose too much bar length.

The 076 has the advantage that the bar bolts are close to the end of the saw so if you do mount to bar bolts the saw dow not protrude too far into the mill.

This thread shows the first part of my build in detail and shows my bar bolt connections in details.
http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?t=48517

Also in this thread are several posts by railomatic including some rare pics of his interesting mills. Unfortunately he doesn't post any more and his business website has gone. Most of his posts that had pictures had them linked to his website so many of his posts have failed image links. This thread is an exception.

I don't like the fact that his roller mills are always a fixed length but I do like this bar bolt connection method He has some excellent idea - well worth looking at! Note how he uses wheels underneath the bar!
 
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