New & looking for timber info?

[BCwoodtick]

I'm new to CSM and started milling some cedar posts for some timber framing that I want to try out. I need a 24' spanned beam and was wondering how large I would have to make it. 6"x14"?? and what species I can get away with. I only have access to softwoods in the Kootenays, BC. I just fell a 30" Grand Fir and was thinking about milling this for my large beam. It is only to pick up and make my truss roof look better. I also have access to some Douglas fir but would have to fell and get to it. Any info would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Sprig]

Hiya BCwoodtick and welcome to the site!! Always nice ta have another PNW'er aboard
I spent a bit of time doing timber framing in the late 80's and recall seeing several tables for shear/loading stress etc. for different species and spans but the sources have long escaped this seive I call a brain. I believe they were Canadian gov't sources but I am unsure what the heck they were (use it or lose it lol) so, just because, I hunted you down a source for free PDF files that deal with many aspects of timber framing and I believe some of the available tables will have the info you require. Hope this helps!
American Wood Council links and PDFs here>
http://www.awc.org/wood-design/archives/2006_09_01_wood-design_archive.html
Specificly in this section>
http://www.awc.org/Standards/wsdd.html

If I find more on this I'll add it to this thread.

Speaking of which (it is a huge subject btw, mine eyes is googled out) here is another site with multiple international links including to CSA and ASA sites, the rest of the reading is up to you
http://www.alexschreyer.net/timber-engineering/codes-standards/

Your talking a pretty large free span if it is a central supporting beam for your roof trusses, you don't mention the width of said structure either, so you'll have do do some calculating as to the weight it will be supporting, snow loads, etc. etc., a lot of variables involved icluding supporting its own weight, so it makes me think, um, big, like 8x 16 or better if pine but I am only guessing. Let us know what ya come up with and post some pics, we loves pics!



Serge

 

[BCwoodtick]

I allready have structural 2x trusses and want to add in the timber frame look so there won't be a lot weight. The width of these trusses are about the 24' it is just I have a window near the center of my wall so if I put in a center post it will take up too much window view. The roof is free standing over top our trailer and is end covered with some crappy plywood that I'll be removing. The new timbers will be right beside the 2x engineered trusses. Thanks for the info link, I'm on dial up so the pdf pages take forever. I'll go check them in town on high speed.

Thanks
Darrell

 

[clearance]

Welcome to the site Darrell.

 

[FJH]

I allready have structural 2x trusses and want to add in the timber frame look so there won't be a lot weight. The width of these trusses are about the 24' it is just I have a window near the center of my wall so if I put in a center post it will take up too much window view. The roof is free standing over top our trailer and is end covered with some crappy plywood that I'll be removing. The new timbers will be right beside the 2x engineered trusses. Thanks for the info link, I'm on dial up so the pdf pages take forever. I'll go check them in town on high speed.

Thanks
Darrell

I my opinion the balsam (grand fir is too weak !Also to prone to twisting!If you can get douglas fir use that!I was allowed to span 14 ft with 51/2 by 9 1/2 beams spaced 7 ft apart in my house that was 20 years back the rules may have changed!

 

[BCwoodtick]

So is the Grand Fir that much weaker than Douglas?? What else can I use it for?? I want to start doing true timber framing so do you think I could use it for the shorter Braces and Struts?? The info I've been finding says that it stains very good so I guess it would make good finishing wood. Also does anyone know of a good free timber framing forum??

Thanks

 

[clearance]

Grand fir and Balsam fir are not the same thing. I have cut down Balsams and juvenile spaced Grand fir. I think Grand fir must be stronger, they wouldn't have planted it if it was weak (I hope, don't have a high opinion of the MOF) I believe that if the wood does not have a grade stamp, it needs to be certified by an engineer. If you have a biulding permit that is.

 

[BCwoodtick]

I was pretty sure it is grand fir but how do I tell the difference between it and balsam??

 

[FJH]

Grand fir and Balsam fir are not the same thing. I have cut down Balsams and juvenile spaced Grand fir. I think Grand fir must be stronger, they wouldn't have planted it if it was weak (I hope, don't have a high opinion of the MOF) I believe that if the wood does not have a grade stamp, it needs to be certified by an engineer. If you have a biulding permit that is.

You are correct the balsam is apearantly a diffrent breed !I did some reseaching and the grand fir apears to only grow in a small area here in BC and the states.And I would agree I beleive you would have to consult an engieer before triing to build with either of the beams doug fir or grand.

 

[Sprig]

Bcwoodtick, I think you answered your own question Googled 'free timber framing forums', some 900,000 'links', letcher fingers do da walkin'!

Engineering> http://www.eng-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=193127&page=1

DIY forum> http://www.sawandtimber.com/showthread.php?t=344

Independant Timber Frame Builkders Association>
http://www.sawandtimber.com/showthread.php?t=344

U of H's link directory for timber framing> http://www2.hawaii.edu/~brownjen/webliog5.html

Just a few gleaned from the first 1-80


(local library would be a good place to start too)

Serge

 

[andrethegiant70]

Some great info here, this is a good thread. We spend so much time on the milling and there are really a lot of other issues that go along with it. I for one have not been very successful in milling large beams. I find that I have the ability to dry straight lumber if it is not too thick and I leave it in wide boards for trimming up later. When I dry beams, I find I cannot apply enough weight/force to keep them from twisting. I'm sure that part of my problem is the wood that is available to me (yellow pine) and I don't yet have a good eye for picking out lumber that won't twist so much when it dries.

A beam that is 24' feet long cut from wet wood has a lot of potential to cocrkscrew on you, but maybe cedar is pretty good that way. I know it is possible as I live in a cedar timber frame and the beams are arrow straight.

I guess my point is.. the milling may be easy, the hard part may be getting a usable beam. There is homework to be done there.

BTW, I'd kill for some cedar. That's good stuff.