Pros should master "butchering with style"

[M.D. Vaden]

You may want to read the post on shaving roots to understand why I posted this one.

Second, some of you realize that our goal is to apply as much skill and learning as possible.

About 10 years ago, I pruned for a little old lady that had me prune her way. Even after explanation, she did not change. But after 4 years, she finally let me do her pruning the right way. Part of her change was due to what she kept learning, and part due a couple of plants and trees where I had free reign.

For certain, I could have walked away. If she got someone that knew next to nothing, her trees would have been worse off.

Our company has learned that we can progress the technology of arboriculture and horticulture, deeper into culture if we are willing to take a certain volume of butchery work.

One, the butchery will less damaging in many cases by the expert. Next, some people yield to having the pruning done right.
We have more people yield to correct pruning, than make request to go to the wrong.

At times, we have been hired next door to the "butchery" yard. When the first person we worked for sees the neighbors, often they change.

As for cutting roots - ts going to be done in a lot of cases. And the homeowner will be better off to have an expert involved. If they want their retaining wall, or pond in a spot, I say great, them have free-will choice to enjoy life. At least the expert will usually make a better choice of how to cut that the very-non-expert tree person.

If experts back out of the world of butchery altogether, then the non-experts will be the ones doing their advertising and culture infiltration.

We noticed that if experts get involved in the non-elite work, they get to wedge in their advertising, education and cultural infiltration.

That's one of the reason the "hacks" still do so well. They are not so darn picky. They get involved.

Sometimes people can learn from their adversaries and opponents. Then just do it better.

Mario Vaden
Designer / Arborist
Beaverton, Oregon

 

[treeclimber165]

Why would you post this on the homeowner forum?

I guess homeowners might not understand trees enough to disagree with you, but I doubt your ideas would hold up to scrutiny over in the Pro forum.

 

[Tim Gardner]

We did a trim job the other day that required two days to complete. One of the first things the client said was “I don’t want you to use those spikes to climb my trees.” This made me very happy right up to the point where I was in one of the tops and she came back outside and said “I want all those limbs over my house and driveway gone.” After the second tree she had me butcher I looked down and saw her sitting on the porch with her dog in her lap. I asked her “how many times per month do you feed your dog?” Her reply was “I feed my dog every day!” Then I stated “well you starve your trees, I just figured you starve your dog too.”

I had a great time working through all those trees without gaffs but all joy was lost by having to over prune them. All I could do was just look at the trees and shake my head when the job was over.

I know of one other company that does spikeless pruning in my area but he works way south where most of the live oaks and more expensive houses are. At least the trees were not spiked and butchered to a worse degree by some hack. The homeowner seems to know a little about trees, and that is better than most, but needs more education with regard to pruning. Maybe some of the practices I explained to her will sink in by the time she gets them pruned again.

 

[M.D. Vaden]

I agree with you T..165 !!

Its a good thing many of us seek new customers to aid, rather than other tree services.

This tree business is still a little bit like religion.

In theology "circles," vast subject matter is agreed upon - like how to read Greek, etc.

But there are still sects with different views on how to apply the learning.

Mario Vaden
Beaverton, Oregon

 

[M.D. Vaden]

Tim G..

That basically sounds like what this thought is about.

If you were not there, your comments may not have been made.

Also, you may end up next door now.

Mario Vaden

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

Mario, what you are talking about gets discussed a few times a month. What it boils down to is where the educated practitioner draws the line on improper pruning. We all do it to a certain extent, those of us who do try to talk the client into something better for the plant.

One of the things I ask a person if they want something extream done is ask what they want to acheive and how long they intend to keep the tree. I'll explain a better way, maybe offer to do it and have them look, then do it thier way if they don't like it.

If they plan to remove the tree in 5 years or so, then it's all moot anyways.

I've had people call me a hack because of my practice of coppicing oak and other hardwoods on lotlines to maintain thick native screening.

The point we have been trying to make against your statements is that you seem to be saying that it does not make much differance. "Cut a 6 inch root, it's OK nothing's happend in 3 years!"

 

[M.D. Vaden]

No, there is nothing in any post I've written that indicates that I think it makes no difference to cut a root.

That's if people read each of my posts.

We do not try to save roots because we think it makes no difference, since it does.

The enormous point my posts have indicated, is people need to enjoy their property. And if a root must get cut to put in the pond they want, let them cut it (assuming they were informed about tree health needs).

If a Giant Sweet Gum, like in Tualatin, OR, is heaving the sidewalk, cut the root or cut the tree down.

I thought I made myself clear.

Hopefully readers don't get the idea that I don't like trying to preserve a some long term tree giants.

At least in our area, about 360 feet is the maximum we can strive for. I understand that the Giant Sequoia cannot exeed that height, except by more than a few feet since they collapse.

Of course thats a few thousand years down the line.

If you are ever in Oregon; West of Portland, near Seaside, there is the largest Sitka Spruce in the United States. I'm dissappointed that when they built the deck for it, they put the deck in front of it too, instead of a fence.

Before, the view of the roots really emphasized the massiveness of that tree. Its still huge, but is not as visually striking as when the flare at the base, or the tree trunk size surface roots were in plain site.

Mario Vaden
Beaverton, Oregon

 

[tshanefreeman]

In response to Tim's quote:

"...I asked her “how many times per month do you feed your dog?” Her reply was “I feed my dog every day!” Then I stated “well you starve your trees, I just figured you starve your dog too.”

I agree with the concept behind your comment, but I question the tackfulness!

I too have been extremely frustrated by peoples ignorance (meaning lack of education) towards trees............but just because they don't understand, doesn't give us, the arborist community, the right to make them feel 'stupid'. There are ways to get the same point across without being so blunt..........even though bluntness is sometimes a good thing. I would be curious to know what your customer felt after hearing your comment? I also would be interested in knowing if your customer will get you to return? If so.............all the more power to you. I just don't think that I could do it!

 

[Tim Gardner]

Re: In response to Tim's quote:

Originally posted by tshanefreeman
"...I asked her “how many times per month do you feed your dog?” Her reply was “I feed my dog every day!” Then I stated “well you starve your trees, I just figured you starve your dog too.”

I agree with the concept behind your comment, but I question the tackfulness!

I too have been extremely frustrated by peoples ignorance (meaning lack of education) towards trees............but just because they don't understand, doesn't give us, the arborist community, the right to make them feel 'stupid'. There are ways to get the same point across without being so blunt..........even though bluntness is sometimes a good thing. I would be curious to know what your customer felt after hearing your comment? I also would be interested in knowing if your customer will get you to return? If so.............all the more power to you. I just don't think that I could do it!

She made the crew lunch and sent extra home with me. I guess she got over it pretty fast but I guess you are right.