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The Biggest Modern (Diesel) Yarders/Towers Built
- Thread starter AlaskanLogger
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garyischofield
ArboristSite Operative
questions for Mr.Hadden
As a East coast woods contractor ,I'm in awe of the challenges involved with High lead(?) logging.The steepness of the terrain,road building,bridges,coordinating the trucking with production,etc.I'm curious about the bd.footage/weight of some loads hauled by the Hayes and 350 Mack trucks.The record 42 loads hauled in one day, would be how much footage and hauled how far?As a young pup, I ran a Mack 10 wheel rock dump which weighed 50 tons empty.It had a V12 1710 cubic inch Cummins with a 4X2 tranny.That truck was akin to the trucks some of your employers were using to haul logs.The Macks had what kind of power E9 macks or K series Cummins?I'm under the assumption that engines brakes were a must ,hydraulic retarders as well?Power shift trasmissions?Your posts are much appreciated.I'm hopeful you will continue to post your woods experiences.Gary-
As a East coast woods contractor ,I'm in awe of the challenges involved with High lead(?) logging.The steepness of the terrain,road building,bridges,coordinating the trucking with production,etc.I'm curious about the bd.footage/weight of some loads hauled by the Hayes and 350 Mack trucks.The record 42 loads hauled in one day, would be how much footage and hauled how far?As a young pup, I ran a Mack 10 wheel rock dump which weighed 50 tons empty.It had a V12 1710 cubic inch Cummins with a 4X2 tranny.That truck was akin to the trucks some of your employers were using to haul logs.The Macks had what kind of power E9 macks or K series Cummins?I'm under the assumption that engines brakes were a must ,hydraulic retarders as well?Power shift trasmissions?Your posts are much appreciated.I'm hopeful you will continue to post your woods experiences.Gary-
wvlogger
Rock trucker
AUSSIE1
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I used to drive a processor (harvester) and forwarder for a Madill and a Thunderbird. As much as it was fun to watch I never did get into the yarder side of things.
Trees were felled by a Valmet (Timco) buncher.
After harvesting your own trees it was repetitious under a yarder.
Didn't mind forwarding for a yarder as it kept you on your toes.
Excellent pics over at the other forum Alaskanlogger BTW.
Trees were felled by a Valmet (Timco) buncher.
After harvesting your own trees it was repetitious under a yarder.
Didn't mind forwarding for a yarder as it kept you on your toes.
Excellent pics over at the other forum Alaskanlogger BTW.
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Gary wrote:
"As a East coast woods contractor ,I'm in awe of the challenges involved with High lead(?) logging.The steepness of the terrain,road building,bridges,coordinating the trucking with production,etc.I'm curious about the bd.footage/weight of some loads hauled by the Hayes and 350 Mack trucks.The record 42 loads hauled in one day, would be how much footage and hauled how far?As a young pup, I ran a Mack 10 wheel rock dump which weighed 50 tons empty.It had a V12 1710 cubic inch Cummins with a 4X2 tranny.That truck was akin to the trucks some of your employers were using to haul logs.The Macks had what kind of power E9 macks or K series Cummins?I'm under the assumption that engines brakes were a must ,hydraulic retarders as well?Power shift trasmissions?Your posts are much appreciated.I'm hopeful you will continue to post your woods experiences.Gary-"
I’ll answer what I can for you.
The P-16 Pacifics, HDX Hayes and the CL-350 Macks were all capable of hauling 100 ton loads or better. We weighed every load that came off at the dump at Gold River and they ranged between 80 and 100 tons mostly. I have no idea how many board feet that would be and the measurement units here changed over the years from “cunits” to “cubic metres” as the measurement system changed to metric. The CL-350 Macks probably carried slightly bigger loads on average than the Pacifics and Hayes did as the Mack planetary system was the equivalent of a 121 000 lb Clark and most Pacifics and Hayes trucks ran 90,000 or 91,000 lb Clark set-ups so couldn’t carry quite as much.
The 42 load day was achieved because we had a lot of short hauls, probably averaging no more than 20 miles or so and the new General Foreman at the time wanted to make a mark so they highballed everything that day and waved through a couple of loads that normally would have over-nighted at camp. He looked good but it wasn’t a sustainable rate given the distance we hauled lots of times so it wasn’t achieved again during my time there.
The majority of trucks I saw used 12V-71 Jimmies (aka Green leakers) with blowers and some with twin turbos. Some had big Cummins engines, a few used Cats or something else but the majority used Jimmy power in my experience.
Most used Allison automatics and all pretty well used Jake brakes and an air brake system for truck and trailer brakes. Trailer axles were mostly Kay-Bruner 90 ton jobs with 2009-B brake drums and 4350-D brake lining. The Clarks used 2021-B drums and 4630-D lining, non asbestos of course after about 1980 or so.
With 1400x25 tires all around 100 tons was easily carried off some pretty rugged hillsides along our coast over the years. I saw some huge loads on Husby’s Macks back in the 80’s too.
Funny, I was talking to a guy the other day about logging in the 60’s and 70’s versus today and one of the things that stood out for me was that I never ever saw a load of second growth wood in those days. We logged nothing but first growth back then.
Logging tons of second growth today of course so I see loads nowadays that almost make you laugh at the small timber being harvested.
Ah well, times change.
Some others on here will be able to give better technical information on various engines used on logging trucks I think. I’m certainly not the best guy to ask, that’s for sure.
Take care.
"As a East coast woods contractor ,I'm in awe of the challenges involved with High lead(?) logging.The steepness of the terrain,road building,bridges,coordinating the trucking with production,etc.I'm curious about the bd.footage/weight of some loads hauled by the Hayes and 350 Mack trucks.The record 42 loads hauled in one day, would be how much footage and hauled how far?As a young pup, I ran a Mack 10 wheel rock dump which weighed 50 tons empty.It had a V12 1710 cubic inch Cummins with a 4X2 tranny.That truck was akin to the trucks some of your employers were using to haul logs.The Macks had what kind of power E9 macks or K series Cummins?I'm under the assumption that engines brakes were a must ,hydraulic retarders as well?Power shift trasmissions?Your posts are much appreciated.I'm hopeful you will continue to post your woods experiences.Gary-"
I’ll answer what I can for you.
The P-16 Pacifics, HDX Hayes and the CL-350 Macks were all capable of hauling 100 ton loads or better. We weighed every load that came off at the dump at Gold River and they ranged between 80 and 100 tons mostly. I have no idea how many board feet that would be and the measurement units here changed over the years from “cunits” to “cubic metres” as the measurement system changed to metric. The CL-350 Macks probably carried slightly bigger loads on average than the Pacifics and Hayes did as the Mack planetary system was the equivalent of a 121 000 lb Clark and most Pacifics and Hayes trucks ran 90,000 or 91,000 lb Clark set-ups so couldn’t carry quite as much.
The 42 load day was achieved because we had a lot of short hauls, probably averaging no more than 20 miles or so and the new General Foreman at the time wanted to make a mark so they highballed everything that day and waved through a couple of loads that normally would have over-nighted at camp. He looked good but it wasn’t a sustainable rate given the distance we hauled lots of times so it wasn’t achieved again during my time there.
The majority of trucks I saw used 12V-71 Jimmies (aka Green leakers) with blowers and some with twin turbos. Some had big Cummins engines, a few used Cats or something else but the majority used Jimmy power in my experience.
Most used Allison automatics and all pretty well used Jake brakes and an air brake system for truck and trailer brakes. Trailer axles were mostly Kay-Bruner 90 ton jobs with 2009-B brake drums and 4350-D brake lining. The Clarks used 2021-B drums and 4630-D lining, non asbestos of course after about 1980 or so.
With 1400x25 tires all around 100 tons was easily carried off some pretty rugged hillsides along our coast over the years. I saw some huge loads on Husby’s Macks back in the 80’s too.
Funny, I was talking to a guy the other day about logging in the 60’s and 70’s versus today and one of the things that stood out for me was that I never ever saw a load of second growth wood in those days. We logged nothing but first growth back then.
Logging tons of second growth today of course so I see loads nowadays that almost make you laugh at the small timber being harvested.
Ah well, times change.
Some others on here will be able to give better technical information on various engines used on logging trucks I think. I’m certainly not the best guy to ask, that’s for sure.
Take care.
garyischofield
ArboristSite Operative
trucks
Thanks Dave,After reading your posts and watching a couple videos on youtube,I'm still in awe at the conditions you overcame continually.The video "Hayes truck steep hill 'is too much.I guess when the norm is what you've always known,it's another day at work.Used to marvel at some of the wood operators while snowmobiling in Northern Maine/New Hampshire about the chest deep snow and very rocky steep terrain.It's all what your used to I guess. Water cooled brake drums?Never seen any steam in the videos on yutu.Thanks again.Gary
Thanks Dave,After reading your posts and watching a couple videos on youtube,I'm still in awe at the conditions you overcame continually.The video "Hayes truck steep hill 'is too much.I guess when the norm is what you've always known,it's another day at work.Used to marvel at some of the wood operators while snowmobiling in Northern Maine/New Hampshire about the chest deep snow and very rocky steep terrain.It's all what your used to I guess. Water cooled brake drums?Never seen any steam in the videos on yutu.Thanks again.Gary
RPM
ArboristSite Operative
I wouldn't say that Dave ... from a BC west coast perspective and maybe others from Alaska and the PNW that know the equipment you are talking about .. you've been there through the good and bad at least in this province. I consider you an authority in this area!
Really don't want to hijack the thread by switching to trucks but for Gary I'll add a bit more about them.
Yes, we used water to cool the brake drums. Controlled by the driver via a hand-valve in the cab he'd use water when required. The water tank was usually right behind the cab.
Also, there were different gear ratios used on the Clark diffs we used with the most common being 13.298 to 1 and 15.033 to 1. Some guys ran 12 to 1 but most outfits preferred a mix of 13.298 and 15.033 as you could easily switch from one to another whereas with the 12 to 1 you had different case halves and were stuck with a compatible diff being required if you blew one.
Main drivelines were usually 1800 or 1810 series and the interaxles were 1710 series. Most outfits also preferred to use mostly front diffs as they could go either front or rear whereas a rear could only go in the rear position. You basically got two for the price of one if you kept fronts for spares.
When ordering the proper input or output slip joints for the axle set-up you had to know if it was for the front of the front, the rear of the front or the front of the rear as they were all different. The most common u-joints were 5-124X and 5-280X, the first for the 1810 drivelines and the second for the 1710 interaxle drivelines.
This applied mostly to the Pacifics and Hayes trucks as the Macks had their own set-up made by Mack.
Also, if you switced to twin turbos on a 12V-71 you had to change all the exhaust to 5" from 4" or there was too much back-pressure on the engine and any warrantly would be voided.
Geeze, I should never start these rememberances as I always think of stories related to what I type.
Don't have time right now but perhaps later I'll give a first person story on the problems with a 12 to 1 diff set-up and also the switch in exhaust sizes and when it didn't happen and why.
Right now I've gotta go look after my wife as she's recovering from an operation she had a few days back so I'm her manservant for the time being.
In the meantime....
Take care.
Yes, we used water to cool the brake drums. Controlled by the driver via a hand-valve in the cab he'd use water when required. The water tank was usually right behind the cab.
Also, there were different gear ratios used on the Clark diffs we used with the most common being 13.298 to 1 and 15.033 to 1. Some guys ran 12 to 1 but most outfits preferred a mix of 13.298 and 15.033 as you could easily switch from one to another whereas with the 12 to 1 you had different case halves and were stuck with a compatible diff being required if you blew one.
Main drivelines were usually 1800 or 1810 series and the interaxles were 1710 series. Most outfits also preferred to use mostly front diffs as they could go either front or rear whereas a rear could only go in the rear position. You basically got two for the price of one if you kept fronts for spares.
When ordering the proper input or output slip joints for the axle set-up you had to know if it was for the front of the front, the rear of the front or the front of the rear as they were all different. The most common u-joints were 5-124X and 5-280X, the first for the 1810 drivelines and the second for the 1710 interaxle drivelines.
This applied mostly to the Pacifics and Hayes trucks as the Macks had their own set-up made by Mack.
Also, if you switced to twin turbos on a 12V-71 you had to change all the exhaust to 5" from 4" or there was too much back-pressure on the engine and any warrantly would be voided.
Geeze, I should never start these rememberances as I always think of stories related to what I type.
Don't have time right now but perhaps later I'll give a first person story on the problems with a 12 to 1 diff set-up and also the switch in exhaust sizes and when it didn't happen and why.
Right now I've gotta go look after my wife as she's recovering from an operation she had a few days back so I'm her manservant for the time being.
In the meantime....
Take care.
jimbo@stn23
ArboristSite Lurker
Dave,
Great posts, thanks. I've always been quite interested in the glory days of logging and the old Pacifics and Hayes. Would have liked to have had any experience with them.
Just got back for a minute or two AlaskanLogger. Wow. Thanks for the pictures in the Vancouver thread. A guy could kill a few days looking at those pictures.
Great posts, thanks. I've always been quite interested in the glory days of logging and the old Pacifics and Hayes. Would have liked to have had any experience with them.
Just got back for a minute or two AlaskanLogger. Wow. Thanks for the pictures in the Vancouver thread. A guy could kill a few days looking at those pictures.
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The guys who bought madill would probly build you a tower rig if you asked, so I've heard,and Diamond S makes yarders.
Hallback
New Member
Photo isn't showing.I've posted this before. This was the first job for this yarder. PLS bought it and ran it through the Loggers Jubilee parade in Morton. I wish I had a picture of it going around the corner. They had to clear the sidewalk, and had a couple guys with poles to lift the utility lines so it could make the corner in the parade. It looked like they had waxed it.
I'm not an expert like you guys. It was a big Thunderbird. I walked the boundary of this unit a few times--was a lot younger then. It was creepy to do after the fallers had left. I'd hear a log move and then a bunch would start rolling. I stayed well out of that unit. They did the downhill part first.
Rumor had it that there were some old mine shafts in the area. There were coal deposits here and there.
There was a problem. The fallers had not bucked all the way through most of the logs, so the company insisted that a faller be on the landing (I heard it put a nastier way) to buck the logs on the landing.
The road was steep. PLS hired independent truckers to haul on that road. I walked it in because my little two wheel drive blazer would spin out. They wouldn't give us 4 wheel drives then. The truckers would offer me rides but it looked too scary for me.
I transferred away. The owl rules were on the horizon and it didn't look good for here. I did hear that one of the guys broke a hip while drilling into rock for a guyline anchor. The yarder was also vandalized.
This was in the Mineral Block, north of Morton.
There was a bigger chunk of the unit below the yarder. It went across and up the other side of a creek. I've got another bad picture somewhere of that part. This was the first time I had ever seen a motorized carriage.
Sorry for the quality. I didn't pack a camera around much then. I kick myself now.
its a 10 year old thread, been more then a couple of hacks and updates since then, lots of stuff has gone missing.
woodsplitta
ArboristSite Member
Shucks, I enjoyed the read, thanks for resurrecting it.
