- Joined
- Apr 3, 2002
- Messages
- 6,071
- Reaction score
- 605
After all the chat about rigging lately, I want to know who uses pulleys and why? Also who doesn't and why? Rich.
use of pulleys?
- Thread starter rahtreelimbs
- Start date
Help Support Arborist Forum:
treeman82
Addicted to ArboristSite
Rich, I use a pulley for a couple of reasons.
1) if you do have to lift up on a piece for whatever reason it's a LOT easier to do than if you are using a natural crotch.
2) it provides you with a crotch wherever you need one, whether in the middle of a spar or right at a crotch itself.
3) it prolongs the life of the rope.
4) removes friction and makes tensioning a lot less of a guessing game.
1) if you do have to lift up on a piece for whatever reason it's a LOT easier to do than if you are using a natural crotch.
2) it provides you with a crotch wherever you need one, whether in the middle of a spar or right at a crotch itself.
3) it prolongs the life of the rope.
4) removes friction and makes tensioning a lot less of a guessing game.
Non-frictional redirect, maximizing pull in 3 positions, it is either on the load,anchor or pull:
1)Pulley on load, places 2x pull on it in pretightening, 1/2 as much stretch over single line on holding to compound that in keeping limb up. Being a 2/1 (or more) that much more line is needed in excess of the drop height. A 2/1 puts less load on an anchor than a 1/1 in lowering. Also in lifting, all your effort is almost without restriction.
2)Pulley on anchor as redirect in vertical lines places 2x load on anchor. Hanging pulley from a sling when it is a shared anchor will put more load on the other support anchor, the lower the original pulley is allowed to hang for dialling in how much load is where! If the other support anchor is frictional, this would also adjsut the amount of upper support friction, for less anchor loads, as control line would need less pull.
3)Pulley on Input force, dividing its pull in 1/2, thereby increasing speed of pull on load end 2x.
Pulleys aren't frictional so you can speed drop without melting the line. This will put less load on the support anchor also, as the system isn't holding back so much weight from gravity's pull.
Also, use them for steering, if don't have support anchor right over sweet spot on ground for delivery, put load in 2/1, with spread overhead supports equidistant from sweet spot that will make whole day easier.
Wider support on riding gravity bender (speedline), for less bend in line.
Then all the applications of original 3 placements, like 3/1 lowering with friction anchors, pretightening lines etc.
1)Pulley on load, places 2x pull on it in pretightening, 1/2 as much stretch over single line on holding to compound that in keeping limb up. Being a 2/1 (or more) that much more line is needed in excess of the drop height. A 2/1 puts less load on an anchor than a 1/1 in lowering. Also in lifting, all your effort is almost without restriction.
2)Pulley on anchor as redirect in vertical lines places 2x load on anchor. Hanging pulley from a sling when it is a shared anchor will put more load on the other support anchor, the lower the original pulley is allowed to hang for dialling in how much load is where! If the other support anchor is frictional, this would also adjsut the amount of upper support friction, for less anchor loads, as control line would need less pull.
3)Pulley on Input force, dividing its pull in 1/2, thereby increasing speed of pull on load end 2x.
Pulleys aren't frictional so you can speed drop without melting the line. This will put less load on the support anchor also, as the system isn't holding back so much weight from gravity's pull.
Also, use them for steering, if don't have support anchor right over sweet spot on ground for delivery, put load in 2/1, with spread overhead supports equidistant from sweet spot that will make whole day easier.
Wider support on riding gravity bender (speedline), for less bend in line.
Then all the applications of original 3 placements, like 3/1 lowering with friction anchors, pretightening lines etc.
John Paul Sanborn
Above average climber
What they said.
Also, pullies and biners can be used as redirects to keep ropes from running against trees.
Take a big swing out of a load
Reduce force multiplyer in angle of loading on origional rigging point.
I will set one rigging point real high and redirect and move the redirects around with me.
With The Winch I can have the groundies crank me up to that final rigging point if I'm feeling a little pooped, then I can retrieve the block and work the spar down.
That all said, if I'm just taking one or two small limbs, I will run the rope natural crotch if it is conveinient. I've been known from time to time to use the running end of my climbing line
Also, pullies and biners can be used as redirects to keep ropes from running against trees.
Take a big swing out of a load
Reduce force multiplyer in angle of loading on origional rigging point.
I will set one rigging point real high and redirect and move the redirects around with me.
With The Winch I can have the groundies crank me up to that final rigging point if I'm feeling a little pooped, then I can retrieve the block and work the spar down.
That all said, if I'm just taking one or two small limbs, I will run the rope natural crotch if it is conveinient. I've been known from time to time to use the running end of my climbing line
Kneejerk Bombas
ArboristSite King
- Joined
- Oct 7, 2001
- Messages
- 36,971
- Reaction score
- 9,980
What they said.
Plus, my groundy yells at me if I don't hang a pulley. Who wants to screw around pulling ropes through natural crotches?
If you have to ask, you probably never tried them. I don't know of anyone who gave pulleys a serious try and didn't stick with them.
Who want to use dirty old nasty looking lowering ropes? Pulleys keep them new looking and make them last a long time.
Plus, my groundy yells at me if I don't hang a pulley. Who wants to screw around pulling ropes through natural crotches?
If you have to ask, you probably never tried them. I don't know of anyone who gave pulleys a serious try and didn't stick with them.
Who want to use dirty old nasty looking lowering ropes? Pulleys keep them new looking and make them last a long time.
kf_tree
Addicted to ArboristSite
i don't know about you guys some times. who cares about friction on a bull line? if i get 2 years out of a bull rope thats enough for me, average is 3. a ground man will cut it before it wears out. pick good crotch's and the ground man will not have a problem pulling the rope through them. why go up to the top to tie a pulley when you could just throw a rope there? i carry slings and biners, if i need a false crotch, bang there right there on my saddle. about the only time i use them is for hinging over big wood if theres no place to cut and throw it. there nice to use and serve a purpose but i think i lot of guys use them too much for no reason. they are also nice when a double lead tree splits and half is laying on a house. take some weight off the limb slap a pulley on the other half of the tree and come along it off the house.why waste the time useing them in every tree? maybe i was just taught by old timers , but what ever your comfortable with use it. i still can't believe guys carry a hand saw into a tree with them. what year is it again?
Tom Dunlap
Addicted to ArboristSite
The year is 2002 and we havea lot of equipment to use that will keep us healthy for a long time. It's personal choice if you use a minimal amount of gear or use every tool available.
If you understand rigging you will see that setting blocks and pulleys will give you more control. The biggest advantage gained by using rigging is that the amount of friction in the system is the same every time. The friction is varied by the turns on the lowering device. Instead of guessing to see how much rope is wrapped around the crotch, how tight the crotch is or the texture of the bark, the groundie only has to learn how big the piece is and remember how many turns to put on the lowering device. Besides, with when you use a LD you can bomb pieces easier too.
The piece has to be pretty small before I don't use a pulley or false crotch. A few years ago I was given a ring and strap false crotch. Using a ring a strap FC for climbing is cumbersome so I started using that one for a light rigging FC. With a throwline I can set the FC anywhere and retrieve it too. I suppose I could add a rigging pulley if I was concerned about the radius or friction. Instead, I just take smaller pieces or change up and use a sling and pulley.
doing whatever I can to make my gear last longer is important. Rigging in natural crotches also damages the tree when pruning.
See you in Seattle!
Tom
If you understand rigging you will see that setting blocks and pulleys will give you more control. The biggest advantage gained by using rigging is that the amount of friction in the system is the same every time. The friction is varied by the turns on the lowering device. Instead of guessing to see how much rope is wrapped around the crotch, how tight the crotch is or the texture of the bark, the groundie only has to learn how big the piece is and remember how many turns to put on the lowering device. Besides, with when you use a LD you can bomb pieces easier too.
The piece has to be pretty small before I don't use a pulley or false crotch. A few years ago I was given a ring and strap false crotch. Using a ring a strap FC for climbing is cumbersome so I started using that one for a light rigging FC. With a throwline I can set the FC anywhere and retrieve it too. I suppose I could add a rigging pulley if I was concerned about the radius or friction. Instead, I just take smaller pieces or change up and use a sling and pulley.
doing whatever I can to make my gear last longer is important. Rigging in natural crotches also damages the tree when pruning.
See you in Seattle!
Tom
pulleys
What they said and more. I don't say you always need them but once you learn rigging you don't leave it behind, you use it. The control and the weight you can safely handle will make a difference in how hard your day was. Not every job has a place to put a crane to do your lifting. Try Pittsburgh Sling over on the North Side for your slings. If you want extreme pulleys try Stainless Products in New Jersy, they are online. I use stainless because it doesn't rust but, it does get stolen once in a while. It has better load values than steel or aluminium. It may be 2002 but I still use a pulley setup and a pruning saw now and then.
What they said and more. I don't say you always need them but once you learn rigging you don't leave it behind, you use it. The control and the weight you can safely handle will make a difference in how hard your day was. Not every job has a place to put a crane to do your lifting. Try Pittsburgh Sling over on the North Side for your slings. If you want extreme pulleys try Stainless Products in New Jersy, they are online. I use stainless because it doesn't rust but, it does get stolen once in a while. It has better load values than steel or aluminium. It may be 2002 but I still use a pulley setup and a pruning saw now and then.
I was hoping to hear this reason in all those posts, and it may have been buried in the 'uniform friction' scheme of things. The main reason to use a block is to allow the piece to run, so I don't get shaken out of my spurs.
The idea is to cut a piece big enough so that, once it starts to fall, it continues uninterupted during it's controlled descent until it reaches the ground. Sometimes the work gets held up by too much friction. And groundmen wonder why climbers get so cranky ?!!*@?&!
Buttcatch video
The idea is to cut a piece big enough so that, once it starts to fall, it continues uninterupted during it's controlled descent until it reaches the ground. Sometimes the work gets held up by too much friction. And groundmen wonder why climbers get so cranky ?!!*@?&!
Buttcatch video
tech
Hello, thanx for being here ! lots of valuable info.\
I have used cranes and was told it was very difficult right
before i did , however to the contrare I used it as a crotch
any where i wanted and thought it was the ultimate choice!
o.k. , I have never used a pulley or sling besides.
and won't with a 1/2" handline . I want to try pulleys
with my speedline (Gravity bender ??? spider?)
or if using 3/4 bull rope w/ small drop zone . must invest
to advantage. I also like the stainless cheek plate - pound
for pound is stronger, we know about power to weight ratio,s
Hello, thanx for being here ! lots of valuable info.\
I have used cranes and was told it was very difficult right
before i did , however to the contrare I used it as a crotch
any where i wanted and thought it was the ultimate choice!
o.k. , I have never used a pulley or sling besides.
and won't with a 1/2" handline . I want to try pulleys
with my speedline (Gravity bender ???
spider?)or if using 3/4 bull rope w/ small drop zone . must invest
to advantage. I also like the stainless cheek plate - pound
for pound is stronger, we know about power to weight ratio,s
We have a Porta-Wrap (original that i put an eye on the nose for compound pulling right into the device a yr. or so b4 they made'em like that!) that i call a rope brake to the guys, cuz that is what it does. i give them that imagery, by calling it that name to its function.
We call a zipline or speedline a 'gravity bender' cuz to me that is what it does. When we use it sometimes we have another line lowering the load slowly, so it isn't speeding or zipping (mountain manuals) the load down. But the 'gravity bending' line is still prescribing the path, off at an angle to the direct pull of gravity, hence kinda the sarcastic name! So, in this way, as the rope brake deal, the name tells the fun-ction in in a descriptive way that we use it.
It is also a lot of fun to call for, turns heads, ok not as much fun as calling for the sky-hook to rig off of; especially if ya stammer and insist the new guy brings the new blue sky-hook only and no other!
So, to me, if the load is speeding, zipping, or moving slowly, it is still not moving straight down into gravity's pull, but bending to the side some!
We call a zipline or speedline a 'gravity bender' cuz to me that is what it does. When we use it sometimes we have another line lowering the load slowly, so it isn't speeding or zipping (mountain manuals) the load down. But the 'gravity bending' line is still prescribing the path, off at an angle to the direct pull of gravity, hence kinda the sarcastic name! So, in this way, as the rope brake deal, the name tells the fun-ction in in a descriptive way that we use it.
It is also a lot of fun to call for, turns heads, ok not as much fun as calling for the sky-hook to rig off of; especially if ya stammer and insist the new guy brings the new blue sky-hook only and no other!
So, to me, if the load is speeding, zipping, or moving slowly, it is still not moving straight down into gravity's pull, but bending to the side some!
