Hello from BKVP

[bkvp]

There is no question that a hybrid can allow for a bit of a flame show when in the low burn rate. That is why there is a push towards the technology. Keep in mind that NC units must maintain 1176F combustion temps in order to burn cleanly. A Cat unit can begin clean burning at 550F. So the advantage of additional air is a nice flame in the lower burn rates, the disadvantage, more flame = shorter burn times. It's all a personal preference issue.

The lower the burn rate, a cat can actually get hotter than on a higher burn rate due to residence time of the smoke going through the cat at the slower pace and the cat gets much hotter. When looking at cat stoves, based on today's substrate and wash coats, you never want to see temps in excess of 1600F. While 1800F is the actually doom and gloom, there can be variations due to draft, fuel moisture content etc.

We are always working on OUR technology. We have a straight cat unit that is .88 gr/hr. It is actually .57 gr/hr on low, which is favorable as 80% of the time 80% of wood burners operate in the lower burn rates. Cited from both industry and EPA studies.

Do you know who said "I bark at no man's bid. I will never come and go, and fetch and carry, at the whistle of the great man in the White House no matter who he is?" Hint: He was at the Alamo!

 

[brenndatomu]

So as to not violate the rules here, you can do the reading/research and come to your own opinion about dollar/value.

You could become a minor (or major ) sponsor here, that would allow you some freedom to "distribute propaganda"
A lot less tip toeing around...either way, it's just nice to have another wood heat enthusiast/industry insider around

 

[HarvestMan]

Do you know who said "I bark at no man's bid. I will never come and go, and fetch and carry, at the whistle of the great man in the White House no matter who he is?" Hint: He was at the Alamo!

A lover of freedom, not afraid of death. One like him said this: "Only those are fit to live who do not fear to die".

I do not own a BK, but I have heard great things of the thermostatic control. Now, if your company would like to make me happy, please work on a soapstone version with rear exit center line of 22.75 inches .

 

[bkvp]

You could become a minor (or major ) sponsor here, that would allow you some freedom to "distribute propaganda"
A lot less tip toeing around...either way, it's just nice to have another wood heat enthusiast/industry insider around

I will consider the option of being a sponsor/advertiser....glad to be here.

 

[bkvp]

A lover of freedom, not afraid of death. One like him said this: "Only those are fit to live who do not fear to die".

I do not own a BK, but I have heard great things of the thermostatic control. Now, if your company would like to make me happy, please work on a soapstone version with rear exit center line of 22.75 inches .

I am afraid my dear friend Tom at Woodstock would have every reason to shoot me. Google: Woodstock Sospstone Chris Neufeld" and you'll understand. Thank you....

 

[HarvestMan]

I am afraid my dear friend Tom at Woodstock would have every reason to shoot me. Google: Woodstock Sospstone Chris Neufeld" and you'll understand. Thank you....

Interesting read. Seems like you and WS are on much friendlier terms than some of the owners from the WS and BK camps. I just purchased a Fireview from WS in May; I've only had five fires in it, but the last one was awesome. As I see it, you just can't have too many good wood stove companies. I would gladly own a stove from each company if I had the need.

 

[Marshy]

@bkvp can you summarize where the current EPA emissions limits are and where they are headed in the near future?

Will you use new technologies to help your company comply with the stricter regulations or will you use your current technologies but just refine the combustion process more?

Does trying to comply with the stricter emissions cause reduced stove efficiencies or are they mutually exclusive?

 

[unclemoustache]

Welcome aboard! Always glad to have another knowledgeable person around here, although you just about lost me when you said the EPA actually did some good!

Anyway, I'm looking to get a BK in the next couple months - either a King or Princess (I already started 2 threads on the topic). I don't suppose you could get me a discount?

 

[bkvp]

Interesting read. Seems like you and WS are on much friendlier terms than some of the owners from the WS and BK camps. I just purchased a Fireview from WS in May; I've only had five fires in it, but the last one was awesome. As I see it, you just can't have too many good wood stove companies. I would gladly own a stove from each company if I had the need.

They are a great company with great products a service. The entire gang there are awesome. When I go to NE, I always try to visit with them....a stay with Tom!

 

[bkvp]

@bkvp can you summarize where the current EPA emissions limits are and where they are headed in the near future?

Will you use new technologies to help your company comply with the stricter regulations or will you use your current technologies but just refine the combustion process more?

Does trying to comply with the stricter emissions cause reduced stove efficiencies or are they mutually exclusive?

Yes, happy to. Between now and May 15th 2020, any wood stove that has been or is tested to 4.5 gr/hr. or less is ok to manufacture and sell. After May 15th, 2020, manufacturers can test with cord wood and the passing requirement is 2.5 gr/hr. Or the manufacturer can test with crib fuel (dimensional lumber) as currently done and the passing grade is 2.0 gr/hr.

All of our products already make the 2020 requirement, except our non cat models. We will recertify all our units prior to 2020, as required by Federal Law. The test method is also changing slightly so all units currently on the market and any new models will be subject to the new method. Interestingly, catalytic stoves are much less susceptible to emissions variations in fuel type than non catalyst equipped models. The use of palladium and platinum for the chemical reaction make this possible.

We will of course have new products, but we like to take advantage of beta testing (again permitted under Fed. Law). This is what Woodstock did with the Ideal Stove. Put 25 units in the field and let a test group point out all the performance attributes, both positive and negative. Then make the changes, go to a lab and test the unit and take them to the market place. We do this to keep consumers from becoming guinea pigs.

 

[bkvp]

Welcome aboard! Always glad to have another knowledgeable person around here, although you just about lost me when you said the EPA actually did some good!

Anyway, I'm looking to get a BK in the next couple months - either a King or Princess (I already started 2 threads on the topic). I don't suppose you could get me a discount?

Discount are up to dealers. The closer you get to the season, usually Aug 1, the less the dealers want to negotiate. However, send me a picture after your install and I'll send you something.

 

[cantoo]

bkvp, watch that Uncle fella, he has a bunch of kids and he will try and trade you one for a King stove.

 

[bkvp]

bkvp, watch that Uncle fella, he has a bunch of kids and he will try and trade you one for a King stove.

How old are the kids? On a more serious note....now everyone read this...there is a serious shortage of skilled employees in hearth showrooms across the country. I have been in more than 200 stores this year and the vast majority are looking for employees. Sales positions and install /service positions as well. From a manufacturer stand point, educated engineers with combustion knowledge are highly sought after. Put those kids in the correct programs in school and they can pick the job instead of the job picking them!!

 

[cantoo]

bkvp, we have the same thing here in Ontario. I do some hiring and firing and we are having difficulty even filling simple entry level jobs. Unemployment is high and we can't even get any applications from people looking for work. We call people and set up interviews and if they do happen to show up they dress and act like complete idiots and don't even seem to want a job. Even our farm kids now are getting decent money to work on big farms driving shiny new equipment and don't want to break a sweat anymore. We are paying good wages and benefits and are always looking for people. Knowledgeable people are getting harder and harder to find and with tight margins it's hard to pay enough to keep them.
Uncle is smart to be lining up his own workforce and they are all hard workers too. I'd like to line up my own workers too but I can't seem to find any women that want to go halves with me.

 

[blades]

I'm biased, but from my prespective it seems the going rate is 90/10 in their favor.

 

[unclemoustache]

bkvp, watch that Uncle fella, he has a bunch of kids and he will try and trade you one for a King stove.

How old are the kids?

lol! Got a heap of them indeed - nine. Oldest is getting married in a couple weeks, and the youngest is still spitting up. I might be interested in trading off one of them - he's a mix between Curious George and Dennis the Menace.

On a more serious note....now everyone read this...there is a serious shortage of skilled employees in hearth showrooms across the country. I have been in more than 200 stores this year and the vast majority are looking for employees. Sales positions and install /service positions as well. From a manufacturer stand point, educated engineers with combustion knowledge are highly sought after. Put those kids in the correct programs in school and they can pick the job instead of the job picking them!!

My kids are home-educated. They will rule the nation before long.


I do have a serious question for you though - I'm torn between the King and the Princess. Here's my set-up:
big old drafty victorian house with no insulation.
About 950 sq. ft. on each floor, plus a finished attic (plus basement as well, but that's of no concern here).
Stove is not central, but in one corner of the house. Rooms are quite open (8' openings between rooms) with 9' ceilings. Air flow is limited, but could be helped with fans.

My main desire is long burn times - I want to be able to get the stove going in the morning, then damp it down and leave it so the family doesn't have to mess with it all day until I get home. I don't need 40 hours, but I would like a very consistent 10 hours. I burn mostly seasoned hardwood, oak as much as possible. Sounds like the Princess would work, but I'd hate to need something larger and not have it.

Current chimney is 6", but I'm willing to replace that if it's determined I need the King, which means there's at least $1,000 price difference between the two, and with 9 hungry kids and a wedding to pay for, that's a lot of bucks for me to swing, so I don't want to do that for 'just-in-case' reasoning.
So with all that info, what is your recommendation? (Yeah, I know - a King on each floor with TWO new chimneys! )

 

[showrguy]

Subscribed...
This could likely end up being the most informative thread ever on here....
Welcome to AS Chris..

 

[bkvp]

lol! Got a heap of them indeed - nine. Oldest is getting married in a couple weeks, and the youngest is still spitting up. I might be interested in trading off one of them - he's a mix between Curious George and Dennis the Menace.




My kids are home-educated. They will rule the nation before long.


I do have a serious question for you though - I'm torn between the King and the Princess. Here's my set-up:
big old drafty victorian house with no insulation.
About 950 sq. ft. on each floor, plus a finished attic (plus basement as well, but that's of no concern here).
Stove is not central, but in one corner of the house. Rooms are quite open (8' openings between rooms) with 9' ceilings. Air flow is limited, but could be helped with fans.

My main desire is long burn times - I want to be able to get the stove going in the morning, then damp it down and leave it so the family doesn't have to mess with it all day until I get home. I don't need 40 hours, but I would like a very consistent 10 hours. I burn mostly seasoned hardwood, oak as much as possible. Sounds like the Princess would work, but I'd hate to need something larger and not have it.

Current chimney is 6", but I'm willing to replace that if it's determined I need the King, which means there's at least $1,000 price difference between the two, and with 9 hungry kids and a wedding to pay for, that's a lot of bucks for me to swing, so I don't want to do that for 'just-in-case' reasoning.
So with all that info, what is your recommendation? (Yeah, I know - a King on each floor with TWO new chimneys! )

O.k.... So think of the two stoves as both being a really efficient new cars. One has a top end of about 10% more Btu's, (King) and costs a bit more on the lot. (Stove and chimney add $1500+ over the cost of the slightly smaller but almost identically efficient car. (Princess). But the first car has a bigger gas tank, so it can go further. (Longer burn times)

The coldest city where we have a dealer is Fairbanks Alaska...flying there in the a.m. Anyway, 90% of the stoves they sell are our stoves and of those, 90% are Princess stoves. And don't tell anyone but they have really crappy wood up there! Heck they'd give me a free kid for a cord of hardwood fuel!

You should keep all this mind when making your decision. By the way, I live in a 1895 Sears Craftsman home that shipped here by rail car. We have a mail slot in the front door....it's about 19' all the way around. What's r value?

Chris

 

[zogger]

O.k.... So think of the two stoves as both being a really efficient new cars. One has a top end of about 10% more Btu's, (King) and costs a bit more on the lot. (Stove and chimney add $1500+ over the cost of the slightly smaller but almost identically efficient car. (Princess). But the first car has a bigger gas tank, so it can go further. (Longer burn times)

The coldest city where we have a dealer is Fairbanks Alaska...flying there in the a.m. Anyway, 90% of the stoves they sell are our stoves and of those, 90% are Princess stoves. And don't tell anyone but they have really crappy wood up there! Heck they'd give me a free kid for a cord of hardwood fuel!

You should keep all this mind when making your decision. By the way, I live in a 1895 Sears Craftsman home that shipped here by rail car. We have a mail slot in the front door....it's about 19' all the way around. What's r value?

Chris

Pic of the mail order house? Sounds spiffy! Sears used to be just so cool, I've seen one of the real old catalogs.

 

[bkvp]

Pic when I get back from AK.