Need help with log splitter- Not splitting wood

[finishsuper]

Recently picked up a homemade splitter on the cheap. Trying to save my 73 year old father from wasting his time and his back splitting his wood, and save myself some time as well.

Particulars: 5hp Honda motor, 2 stage Northern pump 1056, able to split 32" wood. There is no filter inline. No pressure gauges installed either. The motor starts fine and runs very well.

I am new to hydraulics and am having difficulty in troubleshooting and diagnosing. I don't have trouble with dismantling things and putting them back together (usually............).

Problem: When I first got it home and tried it out, the engine really worked to extend the cylinder with no load on it. When it encountered the wood, it stalled. You can see a vid of it here:

Log Splitter no load - YouTube (no load)

Log Splitter with Load - YouTube (with load)

Been trying to trouble shoot with some other sites and not getting a lot of information or help. One suggestion was to inspect the relief valve on the lever. I removed the jam nut and removed the "bolt" with an Allen wrench, and then the spring. I could not fish out the plunger, but it was free and not caught. I re-assembled and tried again, and had much better results, as seen here:

Updated Log Splitter.avi - YouTube

Currently, the cylinder moves freely back and forth, but when it contacts the wood, it sounds like it wants to try, but the wood wins.

Reading on this site today, I found out about the adjustment on the pump. I tried turning both clockwise and counterclockwise, but did not see any change (good or bad). I have not disassembled that apparatus to look for blockage or breakage yet.

I'm not of the mindset of replacing parts, hoping to eventually get the right one. I've already been told I need to replace: lever, pump, hoses, cylinder and motor. That leaves me with an Ibeam and a wedge, which is just larger than the sledge hammer and wedge I previously was using...............

Appreciate any advice or input as to where to best utilize my energies. Will attach some pictures here as well, hoping that between them and the vids, there is enough information here to begin. Thanks.
View attachment 250985View attachment 250986

 

[dave_dj1]

I'm no expert but it looks to me in the third video (after you played with the relief valve) that it is now set too low, bypassing with the slightest pressure, before vid it almost seems as though the pump isn't shifting down into low. Are you sure it's a two stage pump? Where is the intake to the pump from, can't see it in the pictures. I wish you good luck with it.
dave

 

[finishsuper]

Thanks for the reply.

Turns out that the seller had changed the engine lower, but not the pump. The lower HP engine was not able to kick the 2 stage pump into low flow, high pressure.

I purchased and installed a 1012 pump and a pressure gauge, and she's running like a champ. Already put better than a cord of wood through her, including crotches and gnarly stuff.

I now have a 1056 pump that could use a home. Anyone interested drop me a line and maybe we can work a deal out.

Again, thanks for the reply and input. Greatly appreciated!

 

[dave_dj1]

I'm glad you got it figured out, I know how frustrating crap like this can be.
Excuse my ignorance but what is a 1056 pump? I'm getting ready to start building my splitter and I want at least a 16-20 gpm pump. I'm using a vertical shaft engine (I think, cuz it's free if I can get it to run right).
later,
dave

 

[finishsuper]

Well, I learned a lot about hydraulics and pressure while working through this problem. Will try to share my limited "insight" and hopefully will help you:

My splitter originally had a Northern 1056 pump. This pump was rated for 16 gpm on the high flow side, but requires a 8HP engine or larger. If the engine is not large enough, as was the case with my splitter, it cannot generate enough pressure to kick in the low volume, high pressure side of the 2 stage pump.

The higher volume of fluid results a faster cylinder travel, NOT in any increase in end result pressure. If you look at the charts for the 1056 pump, the end result pressure is the same across the three 2 stage pumps: 1012, 1053 and 1056.

The "tonnage" of the splitter is simple physics: pressure x area (cylinder size). You will find that you have very little control over the pressure side of the equation:

1. A 2 stage pump will only generate about 2500 psi
2. Most lever valves have a preset maximum bypass of 2750 (factory set at 2250)
3. Most hydraulic lines are only rated to 3000psi
4. Most cylinders are limited to 3000 psi max.

So, you can hook up your 8 cylinder Super Duty Ford to your pump, but you can still only deliver a maximum of 2750 psi to your cylinder.

Now for the side you can control: On a 4 inch cylinder, you have surface area of (area = 3.14 x radius squared) 12.56 sq inches. Multiply this by your max pressure (2750) and divide by 2000 lbs (1 ton), and you get a maximum force of 17.27 tons.

What if you use a 5 inch cylinder? Same math: surface area now equals 19.625 sq inches and your maximum tonnage comes out to 23.75 tons

Keep moving up through the different diameter cylinders and you can see where you can end up.

Last thing: I installed a pressure gauge on the outlet side of my pump and was really schooled on what I learned. My pump very rarely moves into high pressure, and when it does (mostly crotches), it is only for a very brief period. There is enough pressure generated on the high vol/low pressure side of the pump to split the vast majority of my wood. In this case, if I was building from scratch, the higher volume pump with the higher HP engine would save me time, (faster cylinder travel), but would not gain me any more pressure.

In my case, my son runs the lever, while I load and unload the wood. We rarely "full stroke" the splitter and we don't "over split" anything. Therefore, speed is not necessarily a main concern of ours. So, my 5HP Honda, with my 1012 pump, generates a maximum of about 17 tons on the worst, gnarliest piece of wood I can find, but other than that, it can handle the rest of my wood that any advertised 22, 27, 35, 48, 142, 5922 ton would. In my book, if 17 tons can't split it, I don't need it that bad. It can roll down over the bank and become a home for the woodland creatures.....

Hope this helps. Let me know if there is any other information I can provide. Best of luck in your build!

 

[dave_dj1]

Good info Finishsuper.
What shape is the 1056 in? I may be interested.
Thanks,
dave

 

[Mac88]

Ditto what Dave said. Rep'd ya.

 

[finishsuper]

Looks like there is a bit of interest in this 1056 pump. Let me put some thoughts down here and see if anyone wants to pursue this or not:

This pump is used. It was on the homemade splitter that I bought. The seller told me that the splitter worked, but he had problems with the 12HP engine he had on it. For cost purposes, he replaced the 12HP with a 5HP. He told me that the 5HP was big enough, if I ran it "at full throttle". We split an ancient piece of wood at his house and it worked seemingly OK.

When I got it home, I couldn't split the red oak I had. This is when I started my investigation and found out that the 5HP could not drive this pump in low volume/high pressure. I replaced the 1056 with the 1012 (recommended pump for the 5HP) and my problems were solved.

So, to the best of my knowledge and understanding, this 1056 works, however I have no proof of that. I did buy a 1012 pump on ebay and it was shipped in a flat rate box (like $11 anywhere in the US?), and this pump is not much bigger, so I think it would ship for about the same rate.

Originally, I thought about keeping the pump, so that someday, if I ever decided to "engine up" I would already have the pump. But, let's be real: If my splitter is working, and I'm not going to gain any pressure advantage......... I'm never going to put this pump back on the splitter. It's going to sit on a shelf in my shop, until I'm too old to remember why it's there or even what it's for.

I don't have to get rich off of it, but wouldn't mind defraying the cost of my new pump a bit (I paid $115 for it on ebay + Shipping: NEW NORTHERN / HALDEX HYDRAULIC PUMP # 1012, # 1001689 | eBay) This seller has a Brand New 1056 for sale for $130, and I see that Northern has one for $189.99. Mine is used and looks used. I can try to upload a picture tomorrow if anyone is interested.

So, if you're interested, please PM me what price you like and what terms: As Is, guaranteed to work, etc. If it's better to list it on ebay, I sell there all the time and would be willing to start it out for $10 and take my chances. If I can get it into the hands of someone that can use it, that is probably the best scenario all around.

If you buy it and it doesn't work, I will certainly take it back and return your money. I don't believe this is the situation, but I'm not out to rip anyone off.

 

[finishsuper]

Dave,
I PM'd you with some link info. Let me know if you didn't get it. I don't see anything in my archive about the Sent PM.

 

[dave_dj1]

Yep, got your p m, thanks. I'm still learning...lol
One problem I have is I have too many projects and/or ideas.
This is getting done as I have most of the parts now, reservoir, beam, cylinder, motor, lift cylinder etc.
There is a guy that goes by JJ on tractorbynet.com that really knows his way around hydraulics if you ever need to pick his brain.
thanks,
dave

what are you looking for on the pump?

 

[finishsuper]

Yep, got your p m, thanks. I'm still learning...lol
One problem I have is I have too many projects and/or ideas.
This is getting done as I have most of the parts now, reservoir, beam, cylinder, motor, lift cylinder etc.
There is a guy that goes by JJ on tractorbynet.com that really knows his way around hydraulics if you ever need to pick his brain.
thanks,
dave

what are you looking for on the pump?

LOL. J_J is the one that walked me through the troubleshooting over there. When I started out, I didn't even know that the engine and the pump had to be matched.

After I got through all of the intial posts of: change your engine, change your pump, change your hoses, change your lever, change your cylinder......... I said, If I change all of that, I'm back to my sledge hammer and wedge. That's when J_J started giving me some specifics to work on and some specific places to get information from.

Anyway, on the pump: My initial idea, after getting my splitter working with the new pump, was to just offer the 1056 pump on Craigslist and also on ebay. Ebay is hard though because it's really a specialized item and I'm not sure how many "specialized" people shop there. I found mine there because I always look there for everything.

Thinking if quite a few here are interested, maybe I should just post it there and let it go the "fair way". If it goes for $10 or $100, at least everyone got a shot to buy it for what they thought it was worth to them. I don't have any other ideas at the moment. (Too much football today maybe?)

BTW: What part of NY you from? I'm half hour south of Binghamton.

 

[dave_dj1]

LOL I'm in upstate according to the politicians!
I'm NE of Albany, right near the VT border.
I grew up in VT, moved 4 miles over the border about 12 years ago.
That sounds like a fair way to sell the pump.

 

[finishsuper]

I will see if I can get this pump listed on ebay this weekend. Have to read up on the board rules and see if I can post the link here or not. If not, I will PM those who have expressed an interest in it and will see if there is another board that I can post it as well.