Personal?

[beastmaster]

We recently lost our ground man in a motor cycle accident. He broke his hand. Young guy, likable, could drive the truck, always on his phone, or hitting his vape, always disappearing, working just enough, no extra effort, not much initiative. Boy how i miss him.
We've hired two people this week. One got fired before we got to the job. Didn't like the fact he had to meet at our yard, and ride in the truck to the job. Said we were stressing him out with all the stupid rules.
Next guy sounded great, said he could out work anyone, had experience, could drive trucks, but been out of work for a while, was thankful for the chance to show what he could do.
Dude was so tore back after an hour on the job i thought he might die of a heart attack. Very easy job. Nice enough guy, no shame in being out of shape. He seemed to be trying. I covered for him. Trimmed and pulled most the brush. Got chewed out from the boss cuz the job took so long.
Next day guy just self destructs. Were on a hill side. Dudes hiding, l find him sleeping once. Another time kicking back under a tree on his phone. I cut some stuff that morning that needed to be dragged down hill. He hasn't picked up a twig. Last part of the day hes laying next to where im trimming on his phone. I ask him if he plans on pulling any of that brush. Says he wants to go. Said he couldn't wrap his head around pulling brush right now.
He asks if ill come down out of the tree and drop him at the yard. I have to finish my job i can't stop. He calls the boss. They get into it over the phone. He asks to borrow money for a taxi. I give him 40.00. I just want him off the job site, hes acting strange. He disappears, few minutes later my boss walks up ranting. Dude took off in the dumptruck! When he seen the boss drive up he jumped out. Truck hits a tree. He takes off running. My boss chasing him. Guy jumps in a truck thats pulling out and off they go.
I dragged brush tell dark to finish job. He hadn't got paid so i collected my 40.00 from my boss.
Our groundman make 1000.00 a week. But we work hard. What happened to normal hard working people. Is that a thing of the pass?
Im kind of just ranting but im also amazed.

 

[DR. P. Proteus]

What happens in the man cab stays in the man cab. Used to find them in under the seat just ahittin and asleepin and adisappearing.

I started to play along and go on man hunts and act all surprised after awhile. I mean, what else was I gonna do?

The first thing I do to groundies is make them give me their pot, smoke it then go to work. After awhile they caught on and started to hate me and would literally cry or even want to fight. Fight!? ME!? Hell, I'll just shoot ya, to tired and stoned to do any hard work.

I guess it was rude of me to smoke up all their weed and start telling them what to do?

It got to be like I didn't even care and that's all they were there for. Every once in a while there would be a good groundy but he would get driven down by the rest and there wasn't much I could do. Worst thing is for a climber to drive a ground down and that happens a lot. You really got to let the groundies know they are loved but still got to pay attention and move. I blame their bosses for not building them up and compensating them properly. Bawss be like, " I can get anyone to drag brush for
bucks an hour!" ........ And he did just get anyone. Very common.

I miss those days but it was difficult and dangerous to be working with non-professionals. One starts acting funny then the rest follow and nowadays they all got them phones on top of everything else. I ask the time and next thing everybody is digging for their phones. " NO, yer not googling right now dude!"

 

[ChoppyChoppy]

I hear you, I've gone through several hired hands.

One last year seamed like it was going to work until the first week went by and I paid him.
He had been driving ~60 miles round trip each day in an.old Chevy truck. I thought it was nuts, but whatever.

I advertised the job at min wage, (9.75) but I decided to toss a bit extra.

He apparently couldn't do math and somehow was figuring an amount that was WAY more. Never gave me an amount though, but I didn't figure $400 for 30 hrs was terrible. (He just stacked firewood in trucks).

Had 2 guys never show on time. One full on disappeared. I interviewed him, was supposed to start that Monday, that was the last I've seen him. The other showed up several DAYS late in the middle of the day expecting to start working!

The guy I have working now, I'd like to meet his folks. Darn good job they've done.
He's polite, steady at working.

Unfortunately he's leaving for college thus fall, cause I sure would keep him busy.

 

[ChoppyChoppy]

I had one excellent worker a few years ago. He flew out to Florida for Christmas and planned on coming back after 2 months or so.
I had rented out a room in my house to him so he left everything here. Clothes, car, etc.

That's the last I've seen him. No idea what happened. I still owe him 2 weeks wages even.

 

[gorman]

Put that kid out of his misery. There are skilled young ones out there, but they are a hot commodity. It's hard to find one without a job.

 

[DR. P. Proteus]

Don't feel as though this inane routine is localized just to us big shot tree workers, just imagine these rooky dukes trying to get work done in an office!



Best times I ever had was working with my bubbas, we knew we HAD to work together if we was going to survive. When it came together like that it was fun and pretty damn safe... and profitable.

I knew, as the shrewd business man I am, that it would NEVER be profitable to keep a cycle of jerktoons revolving around my doorstep... well, tailgate rather. " HEY! Don't get mad at me cause you put your cell phone where I gas up my chainsaw."

Them phones really cost that much!?


One thing this horse lady tried to do was sequester me with phone calls and messages. I had explained to her why she shouldn't do that, she thought I was neurotic. What do you think?

 

[DR. P. Proteus]

It comes down to bad management. A lot of it is because the employer falsely assumes that since he is paying a climber so much that he is also in charge of keeping his crew of miscreants working to make the money he needs to pay you.

Take MDS for instance: Do you see him not being on the job with his crew? No you don't. He knows that its really important for him to be there. Even if he finds someone to do the actual " take down" part of the job he most likely will be there to make sure nobody scratches his paint.

I think he stretches himself a little lean like that but he is a smooth operator.

Hell, look at Jared!

This horse lady decided just to appoint me ranch foreman all the sudden. Wanted to sit down and discuss but she knows the truth just like guys who send idiot crews out to do their work.

My friend knows a friend who just broke his hand doing tree work like monkey and for a property maintenance company. Sure they can spread mulch and scrape at the dirt until its clean but that's about it.

I just stopped in for lunch, chain my transmission down, sharpen saws and cool off for a little, got to go go go.

 

[beastmaster]

The plot thickens. Seems the company is getting billed for the avocado tree branch that got broke off by the truck. This all happened next to an Avocado ranch. There was like 500 baby avocados on that branch i hear. We've had disputes with this avocado guy before over access to where were working. Now hes making a major case out of it.
I was self employed once. God do i remember the never ending stress.

 

[Jed1124]

We have an awesome group now. Took a long time to get there. About 10 guys give or take, but our main lead guy made all the difference. Totally different culture at the shop.
They really pay groundies a $1000 a week out there?

 

[hseII]

We have an awesome group now. Took a long time to get there. About 10 guys give or take, but our main lead guy made all the difference. Totally different culture at the shop.
They really pay groundies a $1000 a week out there?

Clear Expectations, along with the Consequences of not meeting those expectations on day 1.

You don't agree with the conditions, & wont sign the agreement, well, you don't have a job.

 

[beastmaster]

No most people pay way less. My boss is the hardest working guy ive ever met. He expects his crew to work as hard as him. We work long hours many days. He expects a lot and will pay for it.
Im new my self there. Almost killed me at first. But ill work tell i drop. Now my goal is to make him cry uncle. Lol
Im 59. I always tell those guys all you have to do is keep up with me. Use to shame those youngster into working harder. Doesn't seem to bother these Millennials though.

 

[hseII]

No most people pay way less. My boss is the hardest working guy ive ever met. He expects his crew to work as hard as him. We work long hours many days. He expects a lot and will pay for it.
Im new my self there. Almost killed me at first. But ill work tell i drop. Now my goal is to make him cry uncle. Lol
Im 59. I always tell those guys all you have to do is keep up with me. Use to shame those youngster into working harder. Doesn't seem to bother these Millennials though.

Starting to Train Up an 18 year old is a lost cause unless it's the military.

 

[gorman]

No most people pay way less. My boss is the hardest working guy ive ever met. He expects his crew to work as hard as him. We work long hours many days. He expects a lot and will pay for it.
Im new my self there. Almost killed me at first. But ill work tell i drop. Now my goal is to make him cry uncle. Lol
Im 59. I always tell those guys all you have to do is keep up with me. Use to shame those youngster into working harder. Doesn't seem to bother these Millennials though.

How many hours a week is a "groundie" expected to work for a grand?

 

[beastmaster]

How many hours a week is a "groundie" expected to work for a grand?

Six days a week 8 to 12 hour days. Lots of those hours are traval and dump time.
We only have one groundy. Hes on the clock. Me i get a day rate. I prefer not to work that many hours or that hard. But tell we find the right guy. Im putting in work and hours, still getting my day rate.

 

[Tenderfoot]

No most people pay way less. My boss is the hardest working guy ive ever met. He expects his crew to work as hard as him. We work long hours many days. He expects a lot and will pay for it.
Im new my self there. Almost killed me at first. But ill work tell i drop. Now my goal is to make him cry uncle. Lol
Im 59. I always tell those guys all you have to do is keep up with me. Use to shame those youngster into working harder. Doesn't seem to bother these Millennials though.

As a millennial that attitude drives me up the wall, my generation works as hard as any. My generation has had the lowest wages (cost of living adjusted) since the 1930s. We get crap pay, crap hours, and treated like crap. Socrates was complaining about listless youth with no respect for their elders. People haven't changed. My generation wants to work as much as any. Shame is a ****** motivator, culture has changed.

A problem I see is the previous generations has put too much value on being college educated and we cant find summer jobs. The best and brightest do not go into the trades or manual labor and the trade schools are for people expelled from high schools, not people who choose them. My high school had its carpentry and shop classes completely cut so they could pay for football too, not exactly my generations choice, it was the parents and grandparents who wanted to see little Johnny lit up under the Friday night lights.. We don't get any exposure through school. Most people these days cant work in high school either due to labor laws and the amount of homework we had. During my high school days Id have 3-4 hrs of homework at the end of every day, easy. Nobody will hire high school students any more or college students. I sent out 40 applications for a summer job before I got one, and I wound up as a foreman for a construction company for a while before I got into tree work. By far, the laziest employees were lifers who complained non stop, but could not be fired as they were unionized or friends with the boss. Folks my age knew they could be replaced in a heartbeat and busted their asses.

 

[DR. P. Proteus]

As a millennial that attitude drives me up the wall, my generation works as hard as any. My generation has had the lowest wages (cost of living adjusted) since the 1930s. We get crap pay, crap hours, and treated like crap. Socrates was complaining about listless youth with no respect for their elders. People haven't changed. My generation wants to work as much as any. Shame is a ****** motivator, culture has changed.

A problem I see is the previous generations has put too much value on being college educated and we cant find summer jobs. The best and brightest do not go into the trades or manual labor and the trade schools are for people expelled from high schools, not people who choose them. My high school had its carpentry and shop classes completely cut so they could pay for football too, not exactly my generations choice, it was the parents and grandparents who wanted to see little Johnny lit up under the Friday night lights.. We don't get any exposure through school. Most people these days cant work in high school either due to labor laws and the amount of homework we had. During my high school days Id have 3-4 hrs of homework at the end of every day, easy. Nobody will hire high school students any more or college students. I sent out 40 applications for a summer job before I got one, and I wound up as a foreman for a construction company for a while before I got into tree work. By far, the laziest employees were lifers who complained non stop, but could not be fired as they were unionized or friends with the boss. Folks my age knew they could be replaced in a heartbeat and busted their asses.

Whoa there sweety, its Ok, don't pout! We didn't mean you.
And you are right.

 

[Ryan'smilling]

Well said, @Tenderfoot.

I'm not an anthropologist, but I've never heard tell of a generation who were overwhelmingly impressed by the get-it-done attitude of the subsequent generation.

We need some American pioneers to come back and show these boomers what work really is. Some real Davey Crockett ****.

 

[Tenderfoot]

Whoa there sweety, its Ok, don't pout! We didn't mean you.
And you are right.

Every generation I have read about blames the next or the previous for the issues of the day. If you keep pointing the finger at the youngest or oldest folks in the workforce they will roll their eyes and make you obsolete that much sooner. Id recommend a skid steer for dragging brush. Wont show up late or steal a dump truck. Probably a lot cheaper too.

Well said, @Tenderfoot.

I'm not an anthropologist, but I've never heard tell of a generation who were overwhelmingly impressed by the get-it-done attitude of the subsequent generation.

We need some American pioneers to come back and show these boomers what work really is. Some real Davey Crockett ****.

Nor am I. People romanticize their youth and forget about the issues of 40 years ago. I remember reading about the backlash to off shoring labor and manufacturing labor in the 70s to Japan, but I see people who were the grunts of the 70's doing the same things today but in China or India. In my area South Americans and ex-combloc immigrants have dominated any manual labor focuses trade. I dont see many complain like the older Americans and they work incredibly hard. I think they get hired simply because they do not complain about reasons everyone is bad and just work. But, as a whole they are horrible to equipment and will steal a lot, so you still see Americans in supervisory positions, but usually younger guys with an associates degree from a community college. Its hard not to be resentful of the Boomers when I can see directly how policies they pushed for made my taxes higher and wages lower.

 

[Jed1124]

Id recommend a skid steer for dragging brush

Next time the Dingo is loading wood I should make sure to tell the forman it should be loading brush instead.

The problem with the newest generation coming up is they want to run the operation from the get go. We weren't even allowed to speak our mind until we earned some respect.

If you ever need a summer job hit me up in a pm.

 

[Tenderfoot]

Next time the Dingo is loading wood I should make sure to tell the forman it should be loading brush instead.

The problem with the newest generation coming up is they want to run the operation from the get go. We weren't even allowed to speak our mind until we earned some respect.

If you ever need a summer job hit me up in a pm.

You may laugh, but I got a big riding mower and towed brush with that instead of dragging it by hand on some jobs. Rather drag brush then carry wood though. Things with engines were invented so we could be less tired at the end of the day. May as well work them hard. Machines don't call in sick and do not steal things. As I grow I am mechanizing where ever possible instead of relying on labor. Where I work we do a lot of long (75-150 ft) drags with brush and do not take the wood on a lot of jobs. Being as I am the one who is dragging the brush I would like to make MY life easier. I think that it could make a 4 man crew into a 3 or 2 man crew for a lot of jobs. But, on the flip side it means you do not have the extra guy for the other jobs or if the machine breaks down you are SOL.

Managing personnel and trying to streamline is hard. No matter what you do you are second guessing yourself or your boss. Someone who is very experienced in their field told me there are very few revolutionary changes, most are slow evolutionary ones. The wildly successful businesses are all very good at maximizing employee output for a given time frame. But, economically it may be better to have high variable costs per job (labor) vs high fixed costs (equipment) since tree work is so seasonal. I got taught in business school to throw money at equipment and to leverage, leverage, leverage. The 'conventional wisdom' in school is to throw money at equipment instead of ingenuity.

I really appreciate the job offer, fortunately I have steady work for now and am going to 4 year school in the fall. To be honest, I think I am much better at logistics and planning then the actual labor part of tree work.