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Rayco 1631 stump grinder bearings

Discussion in 'Large Equipment' started by mattgus5, Jun 2, 2006.

  1. mattgus5

    mattgus5 ArboristSite Lurker

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    First off, I haven't posted since I started grinding stumps..but I do read this forum quite often. I had some bad luck with my grinder the other day. I was about 3 min. into a job when I heard some strange noise coming from my machine. Quickly I shut the machine down. Some smoke came whisping out of the housing where the belts are. I broke something...*$#@ ! I proceeded to remove the protective covers...and sure enough...the bearings on the clutch were fried! I called my dealer, he in turn called Rayco. They both seemed well aware of this problem. It must be a common one. So...wouldn't't you know....my warranty just was up! Rayco did a surprising thing, they sent out all replacement parts, free. $450 worth! I was impressed. Has this happened to anyone else? I just wanted to put this out there in case it does happen to anyone else. Anyway, this stump grinding gig is working out great for me. Its a great part time job. Thanks for the tips you all gave when I first started. Be safe!
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 2, 2006
  2. Freakingstang

    Freakingstang Doctor Freakinstein

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  3. Log hog

    Log hog ArboristSite Member

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    Hey Mattgus5,
    I went threw 2 clutches so far and they gave me the same clutch, and its not the clutch its the bearing that burns up. The bearing gets to hot because the shield collects all the heat from the motor fan blowing hot air in the shield, not to mention the heat from the belts, the hydro pump, and the clutch. On my third clutch they gave me I figured it was the shield that was causing it. I swear I saw a picture of a newer Rayco and it looked like they had slits cut in the shield. Well I just left my shield off. Hey only on my third clutch and only 230 hrs not bad. (What a Joke) Any ways the machine seem to be alright besides the clutch, guess it could go a little faster though.
     
  4. mattgus5

    mattgus5 ArboristSite Lurker

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    bearings

    I have about 120 hrs on mine. So, you left that whole protective panel off, huh? Is that ok to do? You have not had problems yet with leaving it off? Is that all it is....just getting too hot in there?


    Anyways, how are your jobs going? Is this a full time job for you? How are you pricing your jobs...and how much are you pricing them for. Sorry for all questions, but I am always interested in what others are doing and how they are doing it. I am getting about $3 per inch...more of course if there are a bunch of roots. Minimum is like $75 if its in town, gas prices you know. This is just a part time gig for me, but I am making pretty good money doing it.

    Thanks for the info, be safe.
     
  5. Log hog

    Log hog ArboristSite Member

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    Bearing's

    I took the guard off, I thought about safety and there is a slim to none chance of you or someone else getting hurt. why because it on the opposite side you are. And as far as debris getting in there I have had no problems at all with it. The only thing that is there is the clutch and a very small amount of belt if any is exposed. I can tell you one thing I don't want to pay $375 - $400 for a new clutch.
    As far as price I don't really ever measure the stump. I have a general idea of what I want to charge based on size, species and also rottenness of the stumps. I guess to a degree I average $2.50 - $2.75 an inch.
    Now a days every body and his brother, cousin, sister, aunt, and grandma own a stump grinder, and they think there all big time. Basically these weekend warriors run around grind out a few stumps for beer money and or parts to mod up there pickup truck. Most of them don't have a business sense bone in there body. I don't know how any one makes any money on grinding stumps. OK I mean real money, what I make off of stump grinding pays off the machine and then a small small amount goes in my pocket. Nothing pays off the bills and puts food on the table like removals and trimming. For me owning a stump grinder is a necessary evil. If you want to be a full service tree service you must take care of the customer or some one else will. I'd have to say, I think I get a third of the calls I did three years ago.
     
  6. mattgus5

    mattgus5 ArboristSite Lurker

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    I hear ya

    There are a few other guys around here doing the same thing. You see, I have a full time job already, thankfully I work a funky schedule (24 on 24 of 24 on 5 days off in a row). My brother runs a full time tree service with all the fixins....he just bought a $30 thousand wood processor. If I didnt get a bunch of jobs each week from him it would suck. Im fully insured, run ads in papers, put out flyers at local shops...etc. I do an average of $500 - $600extra a week. Im not sure if that is good from where you are, but its pretty darn good enough for me. That Rayco is nice because its a niche that most others around here dont have. Sure i have been beat out of a bunch of jobs on price, and even sometimes I refer jobs that are just too big to another guy with a bigger stumper. I wouldn't consider myself to be a hack by any means, I have not recieved one complaint yet./////// Do you leave the grindings on site? I do...but I always rake them up neatly away from the hole so the customer can the see the completed job. Its great talking to you, when I started, I was not able to get any information from anyone around here, I basically startted not knowing anything.
     
  7. Log hog

    Log hog ArboristSite Member

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    Nice!

    Hey Mattgus5,
    No kidding, $5-600 a week is pretty nice. I guess I never really keep track, maybe anywhere between $200 - 500 a week. I probably average about $350 a week, that seems about right. I have the itch to buy a new grinder, just not sure what to buy. I really like the looks of the track mounted units, Carlton and Vermeer. I think I would prefer the Vermeer because its got a direct drive system, no belts, and its sealed. I would have to estimate that it would loose less horse power this way. I definitely want to go with some thing at least 50+ horse. I thought about going with a tow able but that would limit me getting anywhere I wanted to go. I will have to have these unit demoed soon and see which one I would prefer. But my commonsense tell me that the wheel driven ones are probably going to tear up much less grass when it comes to turning. So that leads me to probably going with the Carlton. Some guys where talking on another thread about Rayco's hydrostatic driven cutter wheel and they said you loose horse power with that set up, compared to belts.
     
  8. Freakingstang

    Freakingstang Doctor Freakinstein

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    If I was in the market to buy a good stumper, I would buy a Rayco RG50 or the newer 4wd unit (RG66?). they are skinny enough to fit through a 36" gate (with the single wheels) and are hydrostatic. They are pretty good machines. Seems like at the time I was working there, that was their bread and butter small machine.

    You will lose some power with hydro cutter drive. It takes HP to turn the hydraulics and the cutter wheel motor. a 50 HP belt drive will have more power than a 50 hp hydro. That is why most hydros have a higher HP engine to start with. But, you also have less maintence with a hydro. I would also try to get a diesel, as they offer better torque at the lower rpms that you cut in.

    Just my 2 cents. I ran many units for customer demos, and there are a lot of differant models. I really liked the RG 1672 DXH (hydro) and 120 Dxh. They are cutting monsters, but they are big tow behind units that aren't always practical.


    -Steve
     
  9. Dadatwins

    Dadatwins Addicted to ArboristSite

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    I have a 1625a and have blown 2 electric clutches on it already. They last about 100 hours. The last one the dealer put on had a fan kit with it and a slotted cover, supposed to keep it cooler. Dealer replaced first one free, I was just past 1 year warantee, second one was $400. I wrote letter to Rayco and complained and they had the dealer give me a parts/repair credit towards my next repair. Coming up on another 100 hours on fan clutch so I will see how it lasts. They give no warning when they pop so no way to tell condition until it blows out. Another issue with this model for me has been cutter wheel bearing. On my 3rd set. Rayco uses a light duty ball bearing type(cheaper) than tapered roller bearing. Have tried to find replacement tapered bearing but design of machine will not allow it. Also wrote Rayco on this issue but their engineer department says sealmaster np-24 is quality bearing and is the spec for the machine. Emerson, which makes sealmaster will only say they would use a different 'type' bearing for a stump grinder application. Rayco is the only manufacturer to use a ball bearing type bearing for a stump grinder. I am also looking to upgrade to a larger machine this fall and while I like the design of my machine, because of these problems I will be looking at other manufacturers.
     
  10. Log hog

    Log hog ArboristSite Member

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    Bearing Grease.

    The bearing on the cutter wheel have been good for me. My dealer told me their a sealed bearing and should never take more than 2-3 pumps every so many hours. They made it sound like you can over grease them and end up wrecking them/the seal. The manual tells you how much to grease the bearings so follow that. I grease all my pivot points every week and my big cutter bearings about every other week. So far so good. I'll keep my fingers crossed I'm on my third clutch. When this one goes there is gonna be hell to pay. I ain't got the time, patience, or want to waste my money on a new clutch.
     
  11. Totally Stumped

    Totally Stumped ArboristSite Member

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    I'm on my second clutch on my 1631. First one was replaced under warranty and, yes, it came as a kit with a slotted cover. I run without the cover. I have 180 hours on the unit.

    I'm going to rent a Toro Dingo with a stumpgrinder attachment and see how a hydraulically driven grinder does. I'm just not thrilled with the 1631 for a number of reasons and will be taking the cutting torch to it if my little test works out.
     
  12. mattgus5

    mattgus5 ArboristSite Lurker

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    used it today

    Ok, today was the first time I used it since i got it repaired. I looked at my cover and realized it was slotted too. i just hope it doesn't blow again. I have approx. 130 hours on it and the damn thing is almost paid off (which actually isnt that bad!), at least I think thats pretty good. Have any of you replace those parts yourself? Im not so mechanically inclined, but is it a big job? I just hate driving out to the Boston area (closest dealer I think??) I'll have to check on that. Anyways, thanks for all the info, you all have been very helpful.
     
  13. tommyo

    tommyo ArboristSite Lurker

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    2003 1625

    I have 500 hours on my Rayco 1625.Orig.clutch & bearings! I did just finish installing a new poly belt and both gears today.I ripped the cogs off the belt on thursday.At least it weighted for the last sweep on the last stump on that job:rock: The only problems I've had before this :Broken throttle cable,cracked weld on the muffler.I use marine grease for the bearings daily+keep belts clean and adjusted.My best week was 2 weeks ago,over 5k that week.A normal week for me is 2-3k in season.
     
  14. fire911man

    fire911man New Member

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    has anyone had this problem or has a solution for mine

    I have a RG-50 rayco, stump grinder. I have had 4 cutting wheel belts break or all the threads get shredded off. The belts have cost me around $250 each time I have had to buy one. I never had this problem with my vemeer machine when I had it. The belt on that machine had threads that ran long ways on the sprockets and the rayco has the poly chain GT carbon belt with the threads running cross ways. Can anyone give me some advice on this? Does anyone know of somewhere I can buy this belt at a cheaper price? Or can I put vemeer sprockets on my rayco and use another belt?

    thanks for any help.
     
  15. Dadatwins

    Dadatwins Addicted to ArboristSite

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    Welcome to site. It sounds like the belt might not be tensioned properly or the pullies are not alligned correctly. If the belt is to loose will cause the slipping/shearing of the ribs and belt failure. To tight will cause bearing failure. If the pullies are not lined up correctly this will cause uneven wear and failure also. Check with Rayco for the operation/service manual on the machine to set the belt up properly. The other solution is operator error, constant bogging/stalling down the machine, taking too big of a bite, dull teeth all take a toll on the belts and the rest of the machine. Hope this helps.
     
  16. fire911man

    fire911man New Member

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    to Dadatwins

    Thanks for the help and advice. Do you know the best way to gauge to tightness of the belt? The local rayco place here, told me to gauge with a fish scale and pull down till I have 20 pounds on it and the belt should not move more than width of the belt. It seems like there would be a better way to gauge this tightness. Any advice from someone.
     
  17. Dadatwins

    Dadatwins Addicted to ArboristSite

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    I will generally gauge them to deflect in the center the width of the belt. after running a new belt for a few hours another adjustment will be needed. Remember to reset the main belt each time you reset the cutter wheel belt. When you change one the other moves also. Make sure your pullies are in line also. I use a laser pointer on mine to check alignment. Hope this helps.
     
  18. stumper63

    stumper63 ArboristSite Operative

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    Dadatwins,

    Vermeer 252 also uses ball bearings for cutter wheel and jackshaft bearings. I usually get 500-600 hrs on the cutter wheel, more on the jackshaft. I grease the cutter wheel bearings every 5 hrs, pump just until grease starts coming out seal, usually 6-7 pumps. I know some say that ruins the bearing, but hey, getting this many average hours on the bearings, seems more than many are getting, so I'll keep doing it. If you check with the bearing manufacturer, they will tell you that severe duty grease intervals are 5 hours.

    It would be nice to switch to a tapered roller bearing, but I also haven't been able to find anything that would fit.

    On the clutch issue, I have the 25 hp Kohler, have 2425 hours on machine, have only replaced clutch ONCE, have nearly 1600 hours on this clutch and going strong. Even have the heavy Sandvik wheel (20 lbs heavier than factory) on for the last 200 hours and still no problems. Maybe a Vermeer clutch could be used on the Rayco? The manual says it is a 220 ft. lb. clutch. Specs: 1-7/16" shaft size, 3/8" keyway, held on by 5/8-18 bolt in end of crankshaft. I NEVER engage except at engine idle, is that what you guys do and still have short clutch life expectancy? The Vermeer has no slots in cover or fan for air either.

    I am looking to put a 35hp Vanguard on my 252 like Plyscamp. Vermeer's 352 also has the electric clutch with same shaft and keyway sizes, so looking into that if the old clutch seems weak. I will be trying to find out the ft. lb. rating of this clutch to see if it is much heavier, but I would think it should be.
    Anybody with a 352 know? It should be in your parts manual in the part description part of the page/picture. I only have the 252 manual.

    Hope this helps a little.

    Stumper63
     
  19. offduty

    offduty New Member

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    help with Rayco 1625

    Hi all, I'm new here and just recently purchased a Rayco 1625 Super Jr. Today while greasing all the fittings I was not able to get any grease into the cutter wheel bearings. Removed the fittings and they work properly but still can't get any grease to pump into the bearings. Is there supposed to be a hole in the bearing to line up with the grease fitting? Inserting a pick in the grease fitting hole only goes in as deep as the outer bearing surface which indicates to me that the bearings might not be lined up properly. Can someone explain to me how to remove the cutter wheel bearings? I'm also planning on replacing the V-belts and Poly Chain GT belt and jackshaft bearings. While checking the belts I found the Poly Chain GT belt very loose and the bolts for the jackshaft bearings also loose. The closest Rayco service is about 125 miles from me. I always do my own maintenance/repairs and if available I'm going to order parts and service manuals. Any advice on replacing these bearings would be greatly appreciated.

    Thanks
     
  20. Dadatwins

    Dadatwins Addicted to ArboristSite

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    Welcome to site. First order the manual from Rayco so you have a parts breakdown. Your machine uses Sealmaster NP24 bearings on the wheel and jackshaft. These are available at any dealer that sells sealmaster. I did not have good luck going to different brands, they have the same shaft size 1.5" but different bolt patterns and width. I think the belts are only available from Rayco but not sure. The poly chain should last for many hours, if it is not chewed up from running loose and showing any splits leave it on, they are expensive. As for taking the bearings off and changing them, it is not a very hard job but you will need to take a day to do it. Cleanup the machine with a pressure washer first and pull all the shields off. The cutter wheel is heavy so be care full when you remove the bearing bolts. I lower the machine down with the engine, take off the botls and then raise it back up. The pullies are pressed on, and are removed by putting long bolts in the blank threads on the lock inserts, by tightning the bolts you push the insert off and the pulley comes off. This probably all looks Greek, but the manual with the parts breakdown will be a big help. There have been several recalls and updates to the machine, including the electric clutch now having a fan and a heavier drive motor, check with your dealer that you have the updated parts. Good luck with the machine.
     

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