Sharpening

[Sandhill Crane]

I'm going to try the Timberline, thanks to sawhoss...

 

[Ted Jenkins]

Hello sir.....first off let me say I am NOT saying one or the other is better than the other, just simply saying they compliment each other very nicely....

I heat my home and hot water with wood 6-months out of the year and do tree work on the side...I mainly cut hardwood, so I can't "half ass" sharpen a chain, or it won't last long!!!

Learning curve== yes...

Burning a whole chain, no if you can eat with a fork and knife, you can pick it up very quickly....

Grinder brand and wheel type, many options here....

Do some research, see what you think....I can guarantee you if you are doing 100 cord a year, you will find a good use for a grinder and wonder why you didn't get one years ago....if you are happy with the file after all these years, then keep at it with the file!!!

There is a problem in that you are being way too reasonable. There must be some disagreement somewhere. I think that a $29 HF can work well, but it does not automatically set it self up. A good Oregon can more easily do a better job. I never could figure out how to use a guide so after a couple thousand cords free hand it is. I still think that those that want to learn and they have a reason to learn to file they could do a great job and be happy too. Thanks

 

[TreeswingerPerth]

Have you ever ran chains that "you" personally ground, next to chains you have filed???

I am not at all trying to sound condescending....I used to think the same way....I dont cut "cookies" and have never and probably won't ever time a cut in my life...for real world cutting, you can get these chains to cut neck and neck with each other.....IMHO

I have only ever tried shop ground chains , I don't cut cookies or time cuts either but I felt my own sharpening was superior to the shop ground chains .
As I said only my opinion , maybe my local shop just ain't that good at grinding them ? But I'll stick to my hand filed chains .

 

[NSMaple1]

Ya - so after a quick supper last night I 'touched up' my 360 chain and made for the woods to drop a couple big old stubs I had my eye on. Don't know what I did wrong but the thing wouldn't make it thru a cut - big time banana cut thing going on now. It was fine before I hit the dirt with it the last time out. Then to top it off I pulled up to the garage door when I got back & front ball joint popped apart on the ATV when I hit the brakes. I guess at least it happened in the right place - but I won't be doing any cutting for a few days. Yesterday must have been a Monday.....

 

[Khntr85]

I have only ever tried shop ground chains , I don't cut cookies or time cuts either but I felt my own sharpening was superior to the shop ground chains .
As I said only my opinion , maybe my local shop just ain't that good at grinding them ? But I'll stick to my hand filed chains .

I hope you didn't take that post wrong I didn't mean to be rude in anyway!!!!

This is exactly what I was referring to, as far as the shop ruining your chain...people take there chains to a shop, and some burnt out kid that has never cut wood in his life ruins a guy's chain....then the guy is pissed,(and rightly so), and thinks all grinders in the whole world are junk...this is how grinder have gotten a bad reputation, IMHO.....90% of the people I sharpen chains for tell me that excactly story!!!!

Hey if it's worked for you this long, I wouldn't change a thing....

How many chains or rolls of chain do you go threw a year????

 

[Khntr85]

There is a problem in that you are being way too reasonable. There must be some disagreement somewhere. I think that a $29 HF can work well, but it does not automatically set it self up. A good Oregon can more easily do a better job. I never could figure out how to use a guide so after a couple thousand cords free hand it is. I still think that those that want to learn and they have a reason to learn to file they could do a great job and be happy too. Thanks

LOL, yes sir I do agree with you that most guys only need a file....I also believe that everyone that runs a saw should be able to ATLEAST touch up a chain with a file....people sometime act like filing is some secret art that only a few can ever learn, not the case....

I tell people to grab a few of their favorite beverages a file, a chain that needs to be sharpened, and a brand new chain....you simply set-up in a postition thats comfortable to you, and start trying to make the dull chains profile look like the new chains profile, don't forget to check the rakers, and lastly go try the chain after you file it...you can only learn if you want to and put in the effort!!!

My dad didn't give any other options when I was a kid, it was here, grab this file, watch me, then practice for yourself.....he said take care of your chain it's one of the most important steps in maintaining your saw!!!

 

[Khntr85]

Ya - so after a quick supper last night I 'touched up' my 360 chain and made for the woods to drop a couple big old stubs I had my eye on. Don't know what I did wrong but the thing wouldn't make it thru a cut - big time banana cut thing going on now. It was fine before I hit the dirt with it the last time out. Then to top it off I pulled up to the garage door when I got back & front ball joint popped apart on the ATV when I hit the brakes. I guess at least it happened in the right place - but I won't be doing any cutting for a few days. Yesterday must have been a Monday.....

Are your cutters close to the same length.....

Can you snap a few pics from both sides of the chain...

 

[NSMaple1]

Are your cutters close to the same length.....

Can you snap a few pics from both sides of the chain...

I don't know now. I thought they were when I did my quick touch up last night - but I was in a hurry & only eyeballed. Sometimes it just never pays to be in a hurry I guess. Next stab at it I will take my time & check closer.

I did some searching on this on here later last night. Lots of past banana cut talk, but one thing I didn't find a good answer on and even conflicting info - if one side has higher cutters than the other, does it cut to that side or away from it? Mine goes left, so I was thinking the left side must be higher. But I found a couple posts saying the opposite - if the left side is higher it will go right.

Something sure isn't right - never had this issue like this before. And I did flip the bar and try it before I headed out - same deal, still went left.

 

[Mad Professor]

I've been doing mostly cordwood on my own woodlot the last few years. One of the reasons I hand file is I can do that in the woods without taking off a chain. If my saw starts to get dull or I hit something, I'll cut a groove in a big stump and use that to hold the bar, or if you wish use a "stump vise":

http://www.baileysonline.com/Chains...Chain-Filing-Vises/WoodlandPRO-Stump-Vise.axd

If the chain is not too dull I can get it sharp in not much more time than changing out a chain. If the chain gets really bad I grab one of my other saws, but I do carry a spare chain. My saws I can use in pairs with same bar/chain combos: 1) 16"/0.325 028S/026, 2) 20"/0.375 036 X 2 or 036/038M 038M X 2 , 3) 24"/0.375 038M X2 or 038M/066 056M/066. What I bring depends on the wood

One disadvantage of hand filing is if you want to carry spare chains into the woods, you need to remove/install each chain to sharpen it in advance. I can see wanting a grinder then. I'm usually on a 1 spare chain system and if I dull both when I get home I sharpen the one already on the saw, then install the 2nd dull one and sharpen that. The 1st chain becomes my spare for next cutting.

Another plus of multiple chains, which has not been touched on yet, is rotating chains evens up your driver and sprocket wear.

 

[Khntr85]

I don't know now. I thought they were when I did my quick touch up last night - but I was in a hurry & only eyeballed. Sometimes it just never pays to be in a hurry I guess. Next stab at it I will take my time & check closer.

I did some searching on this on here later last night. Lots of past banana cut talk, but one thing I didn't find a good answer on and even conflicting info - if one side has higher cutters than the other, does it cut to that side or away from it? Mine goes left, so I was thinking the left side must be higher. But I found a couple posts saying the opposite - if the left side is higher it will go right.

Something sure isn't right - never had this issue like this before. And I did flip the bar and try it before I headed out - same deal, still went left.

Just take the chain off and hold a left cutter next to the right cutter....

Yes if all the cutters on one side are off the saw will cut like yours.....1-2 cutters being off won't hurt nothing, the whole side will.....

I see this problem every time I sharpen for people....everyone has a strong side, and you will always take more material off that side....

 

[NSMaple1]

Just take the chain off and hold a left cutter next to the right cutter....

Yes if all the cutters on one side are off the saw will cut like yours.....1-2 cutters being off won't hurt nothing, the whole side will.....

I see this problem every time I sharpen for people....everyone has a strong side, and you will always take more material off that side....

So on the face of it - if it cuts to the left, would you expect the left cutters to be higher? Or the right?

Seat of pants was telling me left - but as said I found some conflicting input.

 

[jomoco]

Dress your bar NSMaple!

The rails need to be burrless and even.

http://www.baileysonline.com/Chainsaw-Bars/Guide-Bar-Maintenance-Tools/Oregon-Bar-Rail-Dresser.axd

Jomoco

 

[TreeswingerPerth]

I hope you didn't take that post wrong I didn't mean to be rude in anyway!!!!

This is exactly what I was referring to, as far as the shop ruining your chain...people take there chains to a shop, and some burnt out kid that has never cut wood in his life ruins a guy's chain....then the guy is pissed,(and rightly so), and thinks all grinders in the whole world are junk...this is how grinder have gotten a bad reputation, IMHO.....90% of the people I sharpen chains for tell me that excactly story!!!!

Hey if it's worked for you this long, I wouldn't change a thing....

How many chains or rolls of chain do you go threw a year????

I hope you didn't take that post wrong I didn't mean to be rude in anyway!!!!

This is exactly what I was referring to, as far as the shop ruining your chain...people take there chains to a shop, and some burnt out kid that has never cut wood in his life ruins a guy's chain....then the guy is pissed,(and rightly so), and thinks all grinders in the whole world are junk...this is how grinder have gotten a bad reputation, IMHO.....90% of the people I sharpen chains for tell me that excactly story!!!!

Hey if it's worked for you this long, I wouldn't change a thing....

How many chains or rolls of chain do you go threw a year????

No offence taken ,
I use about 25/30 3/8 full chisel and maybe 15 .325 , a 404 on the 880 lasts me about two years . All loops , Stihl or Oregon generally.

 

[Sandhill Crane]

A couple good posts.
I certainly fall into the 90% grinder burnt chain from a shop some thirty years ago.
And definitely what jomoco said....

Another thing to examine besides the cutters and rakers, is the bar.
Last year I was having a lot of trouble at one point.
Very poor results from sharpening and cutting to one side.

Turns out, quite by accident, I found there was a burr on one edge of the bar, and the bar was no longer square side to side when I put a machinist square on it and held it to the light.
I bought a small bar dressing tool (a file and plastic right angle guide thing) and regularly flip the bar unsidedown after six or seven sharpening.
The other thing to check, especially if you get in the dirt occasionally, is the gauge of the bar groove, or chain guide. There are small tools that have several sizes on one tool. All I can think of is .050 and .058, but there are others (.0404?). If the groove is worn and sloppy the chain will lay over a just a touch.
This is a good reason to keep things sharp, and not pinch bars in the cut, to keep the chain running as cool as possible in the chain guide. If the edge of the bar is a touch blue, or the paint is burnt, take a hard look at the bar, and adjust your cutting technique. (plastic wedges are really helpful) A bar can last a very long time with minimal touch ups. The chain I put photos up of, has thirty plus cords on it.

 

[Philbert]

Khntr85: -I would have to take the chain off the saw.

One of the reasons I hand file is I can do that in the woods without taking off a chain. . . Another plus of multiple chains, which has not been touched on yet, is rotating chains evens up your driver and sprocket wear.

Yes.

Most manufacturers recommend running 2 to 3 chains in rotation (no pun intended) to maintain even wear on the drive sprocket and drive links. You also need to pull the bar periodically to really clean the bar grooves, file off burrs, and flip it to even out bar wear, as well as to clean out behind the bar.

If you use a device such as a chain vise; a Granberg style jig on a spare bar clamped in a vise; the 'Chainmeister', etc., it is possible to hand file spare chains without mounting each one on the saw.
http://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/introducing-the-chainmeister.235996/

Philbert

 

[Ted Jenkins]

I don't know now. I thought they were when I did my quick touch up last night - but I was in a hurry & only eyeballed. Sometimes it just never pays to be in a hurry I guess. Next stab at it I will take my time & check closer.

I did some searching on this on here later last night. Lots of past banana cut talk, but one thing I didn't find a good answer on and even conflicting info - if one side has higher cutters than the other, does it cut to that side or away from it? Mine goes left, so I was thinking the left side must be higher. But I found a couple posts saying the opposite - if the left side is higher it will go right.

Something sure isn't right - never had this issue like this before. And I did flip the bar and try it before I headed out - same deal, still went left.

Pretty much never does a bar have anything to do with anything. Yes it can wear uneven if there is extreme abuse. I had a very well used bar with hundreds of cords of use on it. It was beyond just sloppy and it cut in a curve so was going to change the bar and then had second thoughts. After careful examination I realized that it could be straightened out. After some file work with plenty of effort it cut pretty straight then I changed the bar. If the rakers are lower on one side it will cut that way. If the cutters are sharp on one side it will cut that way. If you hit a rock or a tough knot it often happens on one side so the other side some times will need to be filed so that both sides match a little. It is like aligning your car in that if your front end keep pulling to one side or the other it could be that one tire is very low on air so it has to be corrected. Not all links need to match, but they work best when most of them on both sides are doing their job. Having a section of new chain to compare is not a bad way to go. After many attempts success will happen. BTW leaving the chain on the bar with a vise of some kind that is adjusted to the firm side can be very helpful and then adjust it as needed when finished. Thanks

 

[turnkey4099]

Just take the chain off and hold a left cutter next to the right cutter....

Yes if all the cutters on one side are off the saw will cut like yours.....1-2 cutters being off won't hurt nothing, the whole side will.....

I see this problem every time I sharpen for people....everyone has a strong side, and you will always take more material off that side....

I mount my saw upside down in the vice. Allows me to file both sides right handed. Stand alongside bar for one side, at the tip for the other. I saw that tip on this site years and years ago. Still have a slight tendency to get one side sharper than the other somehow.

 

[CaseyForrest]

I'm going to try the Timberline, thanks to sawhoss...

I'll be interested in your report.


Sent from a field

 

[NSMaple1]

Well - I had an extra glass of red vino with supper so now off to the dungeon to break out the files....

 

[Khntr85]

I mount my saw upside down in the vice. Allows me to file both sides right handed. Stand alongside bar for one side, at the tip for the other. I saw that tip on this site years and years ago. Still have a slight tendency to get one side sharper than the other somehow.

I like to have the saw facing me, I can do both sides like this....I figured it's the easiest position to get into in the field.....

A lot of times I do it right on the tailgate with the saw handle pushed into the tailgate frame at an angle..