Sharpening

[NSMaple1]

I also file freehand.

I have found that my body position when doing each side leads to me inadvertently getting more pressure on the file when filing the left side teeth. So I compensate by making a couple extra strokes on the right side. Otherwise the left side will get filed down further than the right, over the life of the chain. Also by the last 1/3 or so of chain life I am also starting to file into the top of the links just a little.

Could be perspective or something, but those rakers in the pic against the white background look like they are filed too low, and the teeth not low enough (not enough hook?). But that might be me.

 

[Sandhill Crane]

The photos are not ideal, just a phone camera, and difficulty focusing on such a small part of the overall photo.
Some of the rakers do look low. They should all be the same, varying only if tooth length is different, and allows one to drop.
In the previous photos there is definitely a difference between left and right cutter profile after sharpening.

New day.
Ryan'smiling, good tip. I tried it this morning.
Rarefish383, thanks. I cut on a bench, and plastic wedge almost every piece to keep from binding and finish the cuts. I use Tap Magic cutting fluid when filing. It shows in the photos as bits black grunge.
This mornings sharpening and wife's camera (which I have no clue how to use, different modes and all). So just two basic shots on a tripod, same teeth, both sides.

I purposely lowered the outfeed end of the file, and held pressure consistently toward the 28* side of 30*
Also felt tipped the rakers and used a .025 gauge and flat file. Did not touch any of them, but they are consistent, and a stroke or two lower than the gauge.


Crap...technical error:
Photos are on desktop but will not load. Kicks out at last moment.
My helper/mentor/better half... is in the flower garden.Edit: got it...
Top photo left side cutters do not appear 60* yet.
However, lower photo they are parallel to the right hand cutters if you go by the bar. I put sticky notes on the computer screen to emphasis the angles.

 

[Philbert]

File guides can help to maintain desired file heights and angles, and help most people obtain more uniform, consistent, cutters. But there is still technique and skill involved.

The amount of pressure applied on R and L cutters, as mentioned, is one example. Maintaining a smooth stroke, is another.

Thank about shooting pool; if the user's stick moves in a straight line, but the player's wrist flicks a little at the very end of the stroke, the ball is going somewhere else. So 'follow-through' is important.

That is why I think that it is so important to have either the chain, or the guide bar, securely clamped, so that the filer can use both hands to control the file, and not be 'fighting' a moving chain.

Philbert

 

[Sandhill Crane]

Totally agree Philbert.

That is what I'm trying to do, is observe the outcome, and adjust. The biggie is the difference between right and left filing. I do not work across my body the same on either side. It is obvious, even more so if you have ever tried yoga. You don't even need to do that. My wrists alone flex very different, the dominant being tight, and far more restricted, and considerably stronger, than the left. So when switching hands a lot is different. Therefore, I do as much as I can keeping the arms close in, and use the legs to do the forward glide motion.

Prior to this I used a Grandberg clamp on guide. Twenty plus years and it got sloppy. Still used it applying the pressure the same each time, then I noticed it would slip down a bit on the bar. I over tightened it and broke it. Bought another Grandberg, but have been using the Stihl 3/1.

Something not mentioned yet is eyesight. The camera is very helpful to see the differences, somewhat magnified. I have a 4X magnifier that I pull out once in a while and wear, but to see with it, I have to have my head closer, and then I'm back to using my arms to make the stroke. Seems less consistent, or consistently worse.

When sharpening I always use the bench vise. The cutter has to be fixed to use consistent pressure. The draw back is the lighting is okay, not ideal for detail work.

On another note, I just ordered a hundred pallets for the Posch. That should be good for the next twenty five cord.

 

[muddstopper]

I bought a sthil 3in one a couple years ago. Since then, I gave my grinder away. No so far away I can borrow it if I rock a chain. Anyways. I find that if I use a full stroke of the file, I tend to dip at the end of the stroke too. What I do are half strokes and stop filing before my hand starts to dip. Now sometimes I use the far end of the file and other times I use the tail end of file. I try to keep my strokes even and same for pressure, I also take the time to site down the bar and make sure the lines of the 3in1 file system are lined proper. After fileing one or two teeth, muscle memory sort of takes over.

 

[Sandhill Crane]

 

[turnkey4099]

Yeah, I noticed the center of the link appears worn.
From the nose of the bar?
I saw a video on YouTube of a chain that is too loose. It whips around the drive sprocket, rises, and crashes into the bar, and takes a little hop back off the bar, then down.
Since seeing that, I run my chain a bit tighter than I use to.

I am still confused about that actually.
Does a chain contract, or expand when running and up to operating temp?
Worse case, I'd rather be too loose than too tight.

.

It expands as it warms up. If it is a bit tight as you finish the job, loosen it right after shutting down as it will contract and get TOO tight.

I started filing in 1976. Soon realized that learning to free hand was rather pointless and changed to one of the clamp-on file guides. Sets all the anggles, the depth and even the length of the tooth. Don't even have to pay much attention to what one is doing, just take a certain number of strokes (5 for me is about right unless it is rocked) advance, 5 more, advance. 20" loop takes about 10 minutes and that includes mounting saw in vise, the clamp on guide and setting the angles. When done I KNOW that every angle on every tooth is the same. I don't even try to 'touch up' a chain in the field, just grab a sharp one fromthe tool box and back to work.

 

[turnkey4099]

I ran some Lazer chain two summers ago and loved it.
I've never seen their bar oil anywhere.
Got the chain from a mom and pop shop that has since closed.

I do need to get a drive sprocket.
Not a fan of the outboard clutch on this XP.
We have a rental place about ten miles away that sell/services Husqvarna, just haven't tried them since they picked up the franchise.
They should have parts...

82* today. A couple hard starts, like six pulls, so not so bad.
I dressed the bar today, and did a half cord.
Beautiful day...

While at the dealer try to get it swapped over to a rim sprocket. From then on it is only 'pull c-clip' replace rim, replace c'clip and back in business in under 30 seconds. New ones are cheap.

 

[DSW]

Ideally I have the chain tight on the bar when I file. But if it isn't, it's not the end of the world, just follow the tooth to get the right angle. I wouldn't suggest it until you're comfortable filing in an ideal scenario.

 

[Tenderfoot]

@Sandhill Crane I think in your application a grinder makes more sense, or a file guide. Freehand filing is a pissing contest. I have honestly never seen someone who can out do a properly set up grinder. I have met people who can almost match it. In my opinion the geometry matters more then the fine-ness of the cutting edge. The bad wrap for grinders is not well deserved. In my experience with firewood, time is money. I do all my bucking then all my splitting in blocks. I found it most productive to have 6 or 7 chains to rotate through. After I touched them up with a file once or twice they get ground to keep everything even.

 

[muddstopper]

@Sandhill Crane I think in your application a grinder makes more sense, or a file guide. Freehand filing is a pissing contest. I have honestly never seen someone who can out do a properly set up grinder. I have met people who can almost match it. In my opinion the geometry matters more then the fine-ness of the cutting edge. The bad wrap for grinders is not well deserved. In my experience with firewood, time is money. I do all my bucking then all my splitting in blocks. I found it most productive to have 6 or 7 chains to rotate through. After I touched them up with a file once or twice they get ground to keep everything even.

I used to take several chains and a couple of saws, now I take 4 saws and a couple of extra chains.

 

[Tenderfoot]

I used to take several chains and a couple of saws, now I take 4 saws and a couple of extra chains.

Either way, you would have a lot of 4 or 5 chains dull at the end to sharpen, and doing 5 at once, I find grinding to be faster then filing. I find filing only faster on short bars with external clutches.

 

[Sandhill Crane]

Never used a grinder.
When I first got a chainsaw, a Stihl 042 about 1980-81, I would have a shop sharpen the chains. After several bad experiences, getting blue tip cutters back that dulled with a half tank of fuel, I found an old timer that could hand sharpen hand saws and chainsaw chains for me. I was glad to give him the work. A few years later I bought a Granberg file guide that mounts on the bar.
I like the 3/1 now, more than the Granberg.
Truthfully, with the 50-60% use on this chain, I think the teeth are pretty consistent as far as length.
Cutters on left side are beginning to look better.

I have a new Granberg jig sitting on the shelf. I'm sharpening so often this is just an exercise to improve.
I've also found the Granberg can slip down as the clamp pressure is not centered. This may be in part to my using cutting oil, or the pitiful thumb screw. Stripped the last one after many years, using a little extra leverage.

The newer ceramic crank jig looks interesting. May give the Timberline a try.

I'm cutting good in hard wood, just looking for improvement.
Not working the bar at all. Once the bar is into the log far enough, I wedge the kerf from pinching. (cutting on a log bench) Never touch the dogs to most stuff, just let the bar come down level on its own.
Been getting in some dirty logs, so sharpening practice every 1/4 to 1/2 cord this past week.
I'm not cutting any really big stuff to see how straight it's pulling in a long cut. That tells you real quick if your off. So there is that. 16" maybe, is about as big as I'm cutting, mostly smaller. 5" stuff or smaller can get grabby, so I just make sure it's pulling down, and the log is against the front of the bench.

 

[DSW]

have honestly never seen someone who can out do a properly set up grinder.

Allow me to introduce myself.......

I agree to a point. A well set up grinder can make a chain razor sharp, as can someone with a file who knows what they're doing. The angles of the cutters shouldn't be that far off if the person filing has some experience, yeah they won't be perfect but it won't matter unless they're significantly off, and if they're that far off that person needs more practice.

 

[Tenderfoot]

Allow me to introduce myself.......

I agree to a point. A well set up grinder can make a chain razor sharp, as can someone with a file who knows what they're doing. The angles of the cutters shouldn't be that far off if the person filing has some experience, yeah they won't be perfect but it won't matter unless they're significantly off, and if they're that far off that person needs more practice.

"not that far off' in the real world means little for all practical purpose, still gonna cut. Noted, nobody can beat a machine, never heard of someone who has that steady hands. If I am trying to show off my saws I will use a file n joint, but at the end of the day I am going to chose the fastest method to be good enough to be productive. Based on my own limited testing surface finish takes second fiddle to proper shape and angles.

 

[Mad Professor]

I use a pferd combo file similar to the stihl setup you use for my milling chains. For crosscut chains I just use a round file holder, either a stihl or oregon

As the rakers get filed they get flat on the top so I dress the leading face to round them a bit. Do you check the rakers with a depth gauge? Maybe the flat file is holding the setup too high and you need to touch the rakers separate?

It does look like you could use more hook. What dia file are you using?

 

[Philbert]

That is what I'm trying to do, is observe the outcome, and adjust.

Key thing is that you are aware of an issue and now you can work on it.

Might not 'solve' it at first, and as a couple of guys have noted, the chains do not have to be perfect to cut. Your awareness, and your interest to keep improving, are what will make you better over time.

Philbert

 

[Sandhill Crane]

Not at the house to check for sure, but I believe I'm using 13/64" files.
7/32" file (if it fits) in the same holder would give less hook...

Picked up a rim sprocket today and some clean pull cord to remove the clutch assembly.

I have a new .058 Oregon chain for this saw.
I think I'll mount that, and file one tooth to see if there is a change in profile.

Also have a new Stihl chain for another saw, so I will take some pictures for a better look at each.

 

[turnkey4099]

Either way, you would have a lot of 4 or 5 chains dull at the end to sharpen, and doing 5 at once, I find grinding to be faster then filing. I find filing only faster on short bars with external clutches.

??? I carry at least 2 extra (sharpened) chains for each saw I have with me. Rare to change out one chain much less all of them. A big day of sharping chains would be somewhere around 4 hanging on the 'to be sharped' nail. I usually just sharpen the one(s) on the saws I will be using the next day if they need it....and my criteria of "need" is 'it wouldn't self feed when I quite last time'. I don't go until I have to "lean" on the saw.

 

[Tenderfoot]

??? I carry at least 2 extra (sharpened) chains for each saw I have with me. Rare to change out one chain much less all of them. A big day of sharping chains would be somewhere around 4 hanging on the 'to be sharped' nail. I usually just sharpen the one(s) on the saws I will be using the next day if they need it....and my criteria of "need" is 'it wouldn't self feed when I quite last time'. I don't go until I have to "lean" on the saw.

I can wait more then a day to decide to sharpen all of them.