My Chinese 365XP copies...

[B_Turner]

I'll admit I didn't read the whole thread.

The whole argument about where jobs end up is complicated and which countries benefit and lose is very interwoven. The guys on the lower end of the food chain in any country (including the US) is who usually loses.

But I have two big problems with Chinese policies and how they affect what I buy.

First, the flood of crappy but cheap stuff has pushed much of the better products off the shelves as stores can more easily sell lower priced items even if junk. Try finding a decent sprinkler nozzle anymore from a HD or Lowes. You used to get a range of choices, and now they only sell junk (from China).

The second reason I would not buy a Chinese saw is that it is basically built on stolen information. By buying this pirated stuff one is a party to the crime. Similar to if you buy stolen saws you are still a party to the crime.

Here it is the engineering and experience of other companies which is routinely stolen by the Chinese. Their whole concept of what constitutes piracy is severely distorted from most of the rest of the world and they get away with. For example, by conservative estimates, 85 percent of the software run in China is pirated (which is stolen however you look at it).

 

[Tiger Rag]

check this link out. I don't get it. They show a husqvarna product. It is wierd.

http://cnbigbear.en.made-in-china.com/product/DqzJsKArXoUN/China-Gasoline-Chain-Saw.html

In that link, it appears they are a big more afraid of Stihl as either they are not badged or the ones that are have a big bear branded bar on them.

 

[parrisw]

Early days but in all honesty there is no way of telling whether or not they have the metallurgy right. If they have then these are a better deal than first thought.

Just drag it behind your truck for a bit mate.

 

[CentaurG2]

I will play devil’s advocate here. Has anyone ever purchased a generic prescription drug instead of a name brand one? Did you feel bad for the pharmaceutical company that designed that drug? Ever wonder where stihl came up with the idea of spring mounted anti-vibe?? Did they think of it all on their own? Is it a crime that store brand cereal boxes look like name brand boxes?? How long do patents last in the states??

The bottom line is that all firms study and reverse engineer competitor’s products and get ideas to move their products ahead. Patents provide some protection but they only go about 20 years. So china made a saw based on a 365. What is the big deal?? Don’t want one, don’t buy one. Simple.

 

[B_Turner]

I will play devil’s advocate here. Has anyone ever purchased a generic prescription drug instead of a name brand one? Did you feel bad for the pharmaceutical company that designed that drug? Ever wonder where stihl came up with the idea of spring mounted anti-vibe?? Did they think of it all on their own? Is it a crime that store brand cereal boxes look like name brand boxes?? How long do patents last in the states??

The bottom line is that all firms study and reverse engineer competitor’s products and get ideas to move their products ahead. Patents provide some protection but they only go about 20 years. So china made a saw based on a 365. What is the big deal?? Don’t want one, don’t buy one. Simple.

I strongly disagree. This thinking saddens me although it is common.

Husky and Stihl spend a lot of money trying not to actually violate copyrights and patents. They do a ton of R&D to constantly make better saws, and saws that meet new regs.

Generic drugs are legal, and only after the patent runs out. Without patents, the drug companies would have little incentive to do major R and D. (Although I don't have a ton of sympathy for the drug industry as a whole as they are THE masters of price gouging.)

And the fact that pirated chainsaws are just a tip in the iceberg in terms of all the technology the Chinese pirate (the most successful at it) doesn't make it moral.

 

[2000ssm6]

That 365 is close to the real deal. Sad to say too.

Matt, ever get the chicom 660?

 

[2000ssm6]

I will play devil’s advocate here. Has anyone ever purchased a generic prescription drug instead of a name brand one? Did you feel bad for the pharmaceutical company that designed that drug? Ever wonder where stihl came up with the idea of spring mounted anti-vibe?? Did they think of it all on their own? Is it a crime that store brand cereal boxes look like name brand boxes?? How long do patents last in the states??

The bottom line is that all firms study and reverse engineer competitor’s products and get ideas to move their products ahead. Patents provide some protection but they only go about 20 years. So china made a saw based on a 365. What is the big deal?? Don’t want one, don’t buy one. Simple.

The bottom line is this #### is why our country is in a predicament now. People want cheap #### no matter the cost, weither it takes their job overseas of not.

I personally hope that company gets their arses sued off and stops production.

 

[Trigger-Time]

I will play devil’s advocate here. Has anyone ever purchased a generic prescription drug instead of a name brand one? Did you feel bad for the pharmaceutical company that designed that drug? Ever wonder where stihl came up with the idea of spring mounted anti-vibe?? Did they think of it all on their own? Is it a crime that store brand cereal boxes look like name brand boxes?? How long do patents last in the states??

The bottom line is that all firms study and reverse engineer competitor’s products and get ideas to move their products ahead. Patents provide some protection but they only go about 20 years. So china made a saw based on a 365. What is the big deal?? Don’t want one, don’t buy one. Simple.

I strongly disagree. This thinking saddens me although it is common.

Husky and Stihl spend a lot of money trying not to actually violate copyrights and patents. They do a ton of R&D to constantly make better saws, and saws that meet new regs.

Generic drugs are legal, and only after the patent runs out. Without patents, the drug companies would have little incentive to do major R and D.

110% BT

Not with the saws............But China will one day take over U.S. without ever firing a shot.
Maybe not in my life or your lifetime, but unless things start to change (and not big "O"'s change) U.S will be a 3rd world country one day.
Am very thankfully the Wife and I have no children to see that day.

.

 

[CentaurG2]

So you boys don’t buy store brand cereal and cola cuz it undermines the US economy?? How about aftermarket chainsaw parts??

FIY, the US is stihl the best country the world has ever seen. Good clean water supply, highest quality, abundant and dogg cheap food, best heath care money can buy and freedoms most of the world could only dream of. Yup the red army is going to march in and take them away, just like Japan was going to do in the 1980’s.

A single chainsaw is not going to change the US and I doubt the bulk of the patents on either the 365 or the 066 are still enforceable. No difference in making a generic drug and copying a chainsaw. Same thing, different business.

 

[2000ssm6]

So you boys don’t buy store brand cereal and cola cuz it undermines the US economy?? How about aftermarket chainsaw parts??

Nope. I buy buy General Mills cereals, Coke and OEM Stihl parts.

.

A single chainsaw is not going to change the US and I doubt the bulk of the patents on either the 365 or the 066 are still enforceable. No difference in making a generic drug and copying a chainsaw. Same thing, different business.

The single saw isn't the point, its the mass of copys that follow that do the damage.

 

[Trigger-Time]

I worked for 11 years in a Tool & Die/Special Machine Shop.
I was on the SMS side of it, we made all kinds of Special Machines.
For allot of the big name manufactures, Kodiak, Proctor&Gamble, Goodyear,Kraft
just to name a few and allot of small company's.

In the later years any machines that were to be shipped over seas.
The Co. would have us bid on only one machine, after it was built.
It then would be disassembled and shipped to mostly Mexico or China.
Our guys would go get it all set up and in production. Then they would have
some company in what ever country machine went to and they would copy it
and make how many more machines the Co. needed.
Most of the time is was a U.S. Co. that had us do the work.
This was in the mid to late 90's most of the work was done in secret
and no patents were used as I guess they knew it would do no good to have one.
We would have to sign that we wouln't talk about what we were
working on outside of the crew that was doing the build.
Kodiak was very strict about this and would not send any of their
latest and greatest film machines to China.

Has nothing to do with anything but Kodiak was crazy with the tolerances's
for every thing on their machines. I believe in "if it's worth doing it's
worth doing right". But for a part that would have been good at +0.005/-0.000
they would want it +0.0003/-0.0000 for the small parts you can hold in
your hand, heck it can grow that much just from the heat of hold it in
your hand.


TT

 

[CentaurG2]

Nope. I buy buy General Mills cereals, Coke and OEM Stihl parts.

.


The single saw isn't the point, its the mass of copys that follow that do the damage.

Cool, so despite all of the US job loss to china, you have managed to stay gainfully employed and have enough resources to purchase brand name goods and drugs. Now a hypothetical question. If you were not so fortunate, would you purchase the generics or would you go without??

 

[2000ssm6]

Cool, so despite all of the US job loss to china, you have managed to stay gainfully employed and have enough resources to purchase brand name goods and drugs. Now a hypothetical question. If you were not so fortunate, would you purchase the generics or would you go without??

I'm very luckly to have a great job and love what I do. Makes a big difference in life.

I have bought generics, if $$$ were a problem, I'd do what I had to do. I'm a firm beleiver in OEM products. While some copies might be decent, my money will go towards OEM. I try to buy "made in the USA" when possible and support the local "mom and pop" guys.

 

[Trigger-Time]

So you boys don’t buy store brand cereal and cola cuz it undermines the US economy?? How about aftermarket chainsaw parts??

FIY, the US is stihl the best country the world has ever seen. Good clean water supply, highest quality, abundant and dogg cheap food, best heath care money can buy and freedoms most of the world could only dream of. Yup the red army is going to march in and take them away, just like Japan was going to do in the 1980’s.

A single chainsaw is not going to change the US and I doubt the bulk of the patents on either the 365 or the 066 are still enforceable. No difference in making a generic drug and copying a chainsaw. Same thing, different business.

I bought Meteor piston for 066 over two years ago, it is the only
after market part I have, but I couldn't make myself use it and it's
still NIB.

China will not send it's army as it will not need to they will own the U.S.
Yes, Japan owns alot of company's in U.S. but I don't think the U.S.
has borrowed money from Japan like it has from China. Last I read
if U.S. borrows more money from China.
China wants U.S. land for collateral and that my friend scares me.


TT

 

[AUSSIE1]

It's been going on for years prior to these saws, patents or not. How about your pliers, hammers, vise grips, measuring equipment etc for example. Look at all the aftermarket chainsaw parts that have floating around for how long.

Sometimes it's good to have a little yan to go with the yin!

All Matt is doing here is give people an insight/review into what these saws look like under the hood and how they perform. I've offered to do some port work to a BB kit to fit to one of these, all in the name of fun. Carn fella's, don't get too anal over a couple of saws.

 

[MCW]

The second reason I would not buy a Chinese saw is that it is basically built on stolen information. By buying this pirated stuff one is a party to the crime. Similar to if you buy stolen saws you are still a party to the crime.

So now that I am a criminal can you please tell me what laws I have broken? Did this saw have Husky badges on it, was it sold to me as a Husky 365? If not then please provide a list of patent infringements. This thread has started to get a bit undermined.

If you knew me you'd realise I am no different than you in supporting goods made in my country. As far as chainsaw related gear though I've actually been supporting YOUR country far more than my own.

It's been going on for years prior to these saws, patents or not. How about your pliers, hammers, vise grips, measuring equipment etc for example. Look at all the aftermarket chainsaw parts that have floating around for how long.

Sometimes it's good to have a little yan to go with the yin!

All Matt is doing here is give people an insight/review into what these saws look like under the hood and how they perform. I've offered to do some port work to a BB kit to fit to one of these, all in the name of fun. Carn fella's, don't get too anal over a couple of saws.

Thanks Al. Too many people here have gotten on their high horse about this. These knock offs were already being made, they didn't ramp up a production line for little old me thats for sure and they certainly won't be employing extra shifts.

 

[mikefunaro]

Bottom line, in my opinion at least, as far as the more political matters of the last two pages go...

America has gotten somewhat lazy. Lots of people don't want to work manufacturing jobs, and don't want to work in the trades, either. Students are getting lazier, and we're falling behind more and more on an international level. Lots of American companies seem to feel entitled to sales and success, despite having a mediocre product.

I am always amazed that so many embrace German and Swedish saws so readily here.

If you look at the European nations that have gone through what we're going through now, already, you see that the people in those countries are frequently content to pay more money and buy products made in their own country.

Here, there seems to be a lot less of that. America is going to have to start behaving more like they do, and recognize that it has to support itself more, or things are going to continue to spiral down.

When America was up and coming, it's not like our manufacturers didn't bootleg anyone else's goods. To the extent that they are violating international patents, these chinese manufacturers should be held accountable; however, sooner or later, they will develop enough capital to start designing their own products, and when they do, china will have enough motivated engineers and designers at their fingertips ready to go.

 

[CentaurG2]

I'm very luckly to have a great job and love what I do. Makes a big difference in life.

I have bought generics, if $$$ were a problem, I'd do what I had to do. I'm a firm beleiver in OEM products. While some copies might be decent, my money will go towards OEM. I try to buy "made in the USA" when possible and support the local "mom and pop" guys.

Well it appears from your post that you might purchase “generic” products if you did not have the means to buy OEM. Good on you lad for being honest but why do you then condemn the rest of the folks that don’t have the money to purchase an OEM saw, food, drugs or parts??

To all who think red china is going to own all of the US; remember that wealth, weather it is a stock, bond or greenback in the bank or your hand is nothing but a mouse click. Even if china managed to buy a huge portion of the US “real estate” (i.e. land), what are they going to do, haul it back to china?? Ever been to a “Chinatown” in a major us city?? I wonder if that was all the fault of a copied chainsaw or perhaps it was due to something else. All on this subject before I get sent to the AS salt mines.

 

[Andyshine77]

It's been going on for years prior to these saws, patents or not. How about your pliers, hammers, vise grips, measuring equipment etc for example. Look at all the aftermarket chainsaw parts that have floating around for how long.

Sometimes it's good to have a little yan to go with the yin!

All Matt is doing here is give people an insight/review into what these saws look like under the hood and how they perform. I've offered to do some port work to a BB kit to fit to one of these, all in the name of fun. Carn fella's, don't get too anal over a couple of saws.

Well said.

 

[RTK]

If the chinese are using are using the same bearing in these knock offs as they do in other 2 cycle engines of their's I am willing to bet the connecting rod bearings will be going out after about 15-20 gallons of fuel..................