nerve damage from extended saw use?

[garyischofield]

I recently have been having tingling in my hands that is waking me up at night.I've been noticing the loss of feeling in some of my fingers and was wondering if other members had dealt with this issue.I have a few years left in me running saws but don't like dealing with the consequences after 40 years of making a living with a chainsaw.I have had to adapt by running smaller modded work saws to keep the wrists,elbows and shoulders a little less stressed.My saws cut effortlessly and this isn't about horsing a saw to make it cut.I was thinking of using winter latex dipped gloves year round because of the extra cushioning in the gloves.Any thoughts/ideas are appreciated.Gary

 

[ScoutmasterRick]

Your symptoms may not be directly related to vibration. I have a friend who had the symptoms you describe, and it turned out he had a ruptured cervical disk in his neck. Have you checked with your doctor?

 

[slowp]

Yes, my hands will fall asleep at night if I've been running The Barbie Saw a lot. That hasn't happened lately.
The same thing happened to my right hand when I tried to be an engineer. It was from running a computer mouse.

 

[Slamm]

After logging for about 6 months, I was to the point of having to sit my forearms into a hot bath of water just go get my hands to open up every, single morning. This was due to running a 660 from sun up to sun down in the summer months 14ish hours per day, the damage is so bad now, I usually can't run a 660 for more than 4 hours and I get very bad issues with the hands. My cure for this has been steel springed AV systemed saws, most notiably Modded 441's, I've run them this year everyday from sun up to sun down for 3 weeks and had zero issues with the nerves.

If you want to run a rubber mounted AV saw it does help to get the softest rubber mounts that are offered for that model, but you will still get wrecked with them over a Steel springed AV system, but they do help. I replaced the rubber mounts on the 3 660's that I had with the softer rubber mounts and I could run them again without as much of an issue, but once the damage is done, its done.

Sam

 

[jorge016]

I recently have been having tingling in my hands that is waking me up at night.I've been noticing the loss of feeling in some of my fingers and was wondering if other members had dealt with this issue.I have a few years left in me running saws but don't like dealing with the consequences after 40 years of making a living with a chainsaw.I have had to adapt by running smaller modded work saws to keep the wrists,elbows and shoulders a little less stressed.My saws cut effortlessly and this isn't about horsing a saw to make it cut.I was thinking of using winter latex dipped gloves year round because of the extra cushioning in the gloves.Any thoughts/ideas are appreciated.Gary

I suffered the same symptoms after years of milking cows, general farming and after putting in a OWB - cutting 15 cords of wood every year. Finally got an MRI and had one bulging and 1 herniated disk. Doctors gave me the options of surgery or steroids to get the swelling in the discks down. A couple of mega doses of steroids and some physical therapy patched me up, but the tingling in the fingers is nothing to ignore. Good luck and get better.

 

[VTWoodchuck]

I suffered the same symptoms after years of milking cows, general farming and after putting in a OWB - cutting 15 cords of wood every year. Finally got an MRI and had one bulging and 1 herniated disk. Doctors gave me the options of surgery or steroids to get the swelling in the discks down. A couple of mega doses of steroids and some physical therapy patched me up, but the tingling in the fingers is nothing to ignore. Good luck and get better.

Oh crap! I have those same symptoms. Never thought it could be something that bad, just thought I was getting old. Dang, better go see the doc.
(I hate docs.....)

 

[sunfish]

I've had tingling and numbness in my hands at night for years, but went to the chiropractor when my right hand got real bad (staying numb all day). Found I had a pinched nerve in my back. After 5 visits the symptoms when away.

Lightest saws with good power and spring AV is all I use now and have little probs anymore.

 

[garyischofield]

softer av cushions

Sam,thanks for the heads up on the antivibe cushions.I didn't know there are different options available.I will look into that on my "Slinger"660.If I had known I was going to last this long,I'd have taken better care of myself.Thanks for all the comments.Gary

 

[TALLGUY]

Vibration white finger - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This is what the old timers suffered from before AV mounts.

 

[brncreeper]

If the chain rakers are ground down too far, then there will be much more unwanted vibration. Just a thought.

 

[SawTroll]

Yes, my hands will fall asleep at night if I've been running The Barbie Saw a lot. That hasn't happened lately.
The same thing happened to my right hand when I tried to be an engineer. It was from running a computer mouse.

I had to swap to using the left hand on the "mouse" about 12 years ago - but in my case it seems to be mostly coused by Arthritis.
Also, I use the left hand on the starter rope, at least partly to spare my right hand from it - but as a bonus, I discovered that it actually is the better way to do it anyway!

 

[kamikaze]

Some gel palm gloves may help out as well. just a thought

 

[RandyMac]

Nerve damage is a fact, as is repetitive stress, which in my case is a minor annoyance compared to the various impact injuries.

 

[wyk]

Vibration white finger - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This is what the old timers suffered from before AV mounts.

Not just old-timers. I had it pretty bad after my last 3 month stunt on a forestry crew in England. When you have a saw in your hands for 6-8hrs+ a day, every day, for month after month, it can start to effect your physiology adversely(I'll address the forestry work affecting your psychology adversely in another post ...). Folks that do not use a chainsaw for a living have little idea how it can be. Every little bit of vibration adds up after many hours of use. They take this seriously at Stihl, Husky, et al, as well. It is also one of the main reasons the folks I know in Canada working on bigger trees, and many of the fallers in the US have gone to 390's and 372's VS some other models. Their AV makes long hours much easier on a person. When all else is nearly equal, the AV often won out. After some conversations with them, and trying them out myself, it was one of the main reasons I switched to husky for my work saws as well. But this is before the 441 came out, though.

Some people are more resistant to it than others. But eventually, since we are all humans, it will do nerve and tissue damage if you keep at it long enough.

 

[RAMROD48]

Go get tested for Carpol Tunnel. Its caused by repetive motion and also vibration can play a role.

I had the exact same symptoms as you.

Had the surgery. BEST THING I EVER DID!!

Dont let the "long" healing time scare you, I had the operation on a Friday morning. Was back to work, working on saws Monday morning. I have a higher pain tolerance than most people though.

 

[garyischofield]

thinking of going back to chisel bit filing

Not just old-timers. I had it pretty bad after my last 3 month stunt on a forestry crew in England. When you have a saw in your hands for 6-8hrs+ a day, every day, for month after month, it can start to effect your physiology adversely(I'll address the forestry work affecting your psychology adversely in another post ...). Folks that do not use a chainsaw for a living have little idea how it can be. Every little bit of vibration adds up after many hours of use. They take this seriously at Stihl, Husky, et al, as well. It is also one of the main reasons the folks I know in Canada working on bigger trees, and many of the fallers in the US have gone to 390's and 372's VS some other models. Their AV makes long hours much easier on a person. When all else is nearly equal, the AV often won out. After some conversations with them, and trying them out myself, it was one of the main reasons I switched to husky for my work saws as well. But this is before the 441 came out, though.

Some people are more resistant to it than others. But eventually, since we are all humans, it will do nerve and tissue damage if you keep at it long enough.

I flirted with chisel bit filing my work saws as a way to use smaller saws back in my landclearing days(shoulder,elbow,wrist issues).The biggest surprise was how smoothly it cut and the reduction in kickback.Bucking out logs/notching big crotches at the chipper with grapple skidders crowding you with hitches, I eventually went back to round filing because in the woods it took me too long to file.I might have to go back to chisel bit filing for smoothness sake.Nobody rushing me now.Gary

 

[Log Hogger]

Whatever you do, don't make the mistake of figuring you can just work through it. That tingling could be symptomatic of a few different issues ranging from bad to worse. As other's have noted, it could be cervical radiculopathy (slipped disc in the neck) pinching on a spinal nerve root. I know way more than I care to about that problem! Usually that affects one hand more than the other, but only a physician can rule it out.

There's also Raynaud's Syndrome, wikipedia has some nice photos of what happens when you try to work through that one.

Then there's carpal tunnel syndrome, you definitely don't want that.

Lots of other possibilities, too, and like the one's mentioned, I wouldn't wish them on my worst enemy.

Most of the vibration issues should subside if you switch to a modern AV spring saw and run a smooth chain. With my carpal tunnel syndrome, I've found a properly sharpened chain to make the difference between cutting for hours and cutting for minutes. After 4-5 hand filings I true up all the angles and depth gauges on a grinder, and the smoothness is immediately noticable to me.

Only you can know if you need to see a doctor, but if that tingling persists even after a few days off from the saw, I'd think about seeing one.

 

[Kenskip1]

The tingling in your fingers is a warning sign you should heed.I have had this more than once.Bulging disk in my neck.Well had a surgery back in 2004. Prior to this I could not hold a fork or barely type.The doctor told me of another problem but it had to wait. Few months later I was back and my hands were great. back playing piano and working on saws mowers.2006 and the other disk below the one that was fused was giving me trouble. Same symptoms.Had the neck surgery here in Texas.All is great now.My piano playing has since improved as well as my typing.All this was in my right arm.
Had carpel tunnel syndrome in my left wrist.Had two separate procedures.The first one failed, but all is well now.Give the modern medical system a chance.Today the medical procedures has improved greatly.I have titanium implants in my lower spine (L4 L5) BAK spinal implants and I get around fairly well.Go to a competent doctor and get evaluated.I would not be the least bit hesitant. Modern medicine is something that I feel very strongly about, Ken

 

[Jacob J.]

B vitamins can help with some nerve and cartilage damage to a limited extent. In addition to everything that's been mentioned, limit your caffeine and nicotine
intake if you're a tobacco user. Both high levels of caffeine and nicotine in the bloodstream have been shown to degrade cartilage and deteriorate the synovial
membrane's ability to produce synovial fluid, the main lubricant for your joints.

 

[RandyMac]

JJ, you didn't mention the other food group, alcohol.