homelitejim
Full of Scrap
I get the same thing but mine is from a blown disk that went towards the spine. Dr. said it will always be this way so I run the big heavy old saws.
nerve damage from extended saw use?
- Thread starter garyischofield
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garyischofield
ArboristSite Operative
Many thanks
To all that posted their experiences/suggestions,THANK YOU!I had no frickin' idea that there were real solutions to the problem,short of surgery.I ordered leather gloves from Impacto in Ontario,Canada.They were a little pricey but I'm optimistic and ready to bail into a couple hundred cord of oversized tree butts the local tree companies have been hauling in. The longer bars I use necesitate using the bucking spikes and are hard on the wrists/elbows.I doubt there's anything that'll be as big as the 70" Beech log I minced it up(18") with my 394 and 084 last Spring.When the crane followed the triaxle log truck into my woodlot,I was wondering what was going on.They had to load and unload the log with the crane.I normally cut logs 56" long to put through the JUMBO log splitter I fabricated last Winter,but the grapple had no chance of getting around that log.Special thanks to Philbert for the link to Impacto.What is "Blue Goo?Merry Christmas.Be safe,Gary
To all that posted their experiences/suggestions,THANK YOU!I had no frickin' idea that there were real solutions to the problem,short of surgery.I ordered leather gloves from Impacto in Ontario,Canada.They were a little pricey but I'm optimistic and ready to bail into a couple hundred cord of oversized tree butts the local tree companies have been hauling in. The longer bars I use necesitate using the bucking spikes and are hard on the wrists/elbows.I doubt there's anything that'll be as big as the 70" Beech log I minced it up(18") with my 394 and 084 last Spring.When the crane followed the triaxle log truck into my woodlot,I was wondering what was going on.They had to load and unload the log with the crane.I normally cut logs 56" long to put through the JUMBO log splitter I fabricated last Winter,but the grapple had no chance of getting around that log.Special thanks to Philbert for the link to Impacto.What is "Blue Goo?Merry Christmas.Be safe,Gary
lmbrman
stumped
I am certainly no medical expert, but have personal experience with this problem and am glad to hear other's stories and thoughts. I have talked with another member about this for years- long before I knew of AS and the wealth of info here.
I dealt with this nerve tingling for about five years and was scheduled for carpal tunnel surgery. I just happened to thro my back out a couple months before the surgery and when I could find no relief I decided it could not hurt to go to a Chiropracter for the first time ever. He worked on my back, which improved greatly, and then asked if he could help with any other health issues. We spoke a little bit, but I did not share much info. He asked what kind of work I did, and it turned out he grew up in a logging family in N WI, and put himself thru school by logging each summer and breaks. He asked how my nerves were, and he did a little twist and pull on the arm, showed me some stretches, and I cancelled the surgery within a week. That was 8 years ago. I most likely should follow up again hearing some of the experiences on here, as I still deal with it occassionally.
One other quick note about my conversations with a member on here about this topic. He ran huskies, and I ran stihls back then. We both switched brand, unknown to each other, and had better 'hand health'. He chalked it up to changing the type, frequency, or what have you of vibration and I think there could be some truth to this. No proof. Of course, we might both end up with very severe damage by changing brands and causing damage across the spectrum.
Anyway, good reading, thank you all for posting!
I dealt with this nerve tingling for about five years and was scheduled for carpal tunnel surgery. I just happened to thro my back out a couple months before the surgery and when I could find no relief I decided it could not hurt to go to a Chiropracter for the first time ever. He worked on my back, which improved greatly, and then asked if he could help with any other health issues. We spoke a little bit, but I did not share much info. He asked what kind of work I did, and it turned out he grew up in a logging family in N WI, and put himself thru school by logging each summer and breaks. He asked how my nerves were, and he did a little twist and pull on the arm, showed me some stretches, and I cancelled the surgery within a week. That was 8 years ago. I most likely should follow up again hearing some of the experiences on here, as I still deal with it occassionally.
One other quick note about my conversations with a member on here about this topic. He ran huskies, and I ran stihls back then. We both switched brand, unknown to each other, and had better 'hand health'. He chalked it up to changing the type, frequency, or what have you of vibration and I think there could be some truth to this. No proof. Of course, we might both end up with very severe damage by changing brands and causing damage across the spectrum.
Anyway, good reading, thank you all for posting!
Mastermind
Work Saw Specialist
I just built Gary a 262XP. That's a very smooth little saw.
Gary, my wife had the carpel tunnel surgery a few years back and it worked wonders. As has been said, don't shy away from doctors, sometimes that's just what we need.
parrisw
Tree Freak
262's are nice. I'll use mine someday.
My dad had the surgery for Carpel tunnel. He put it off for a long time, now wishes he didn't, has helped him in huge ways.
Carpal Tunnel syndrome is the result of compression of a specific nerve (median nerve) in the wrist ('carpal' comes from the Latin word for wrist). As noted, there are a number of other conditions which produce similar symptoms, which is is why they call it a 'syndrome', or a collection of symptoms associated with this condition. It is possible that the cause is not nerve related at all (blood vessel, tendon or joint related, etc.).
Even if the tingling experienced is due to nerve issues, it does not mean that the compression is occurring in the wrist. That same nerve travels from the tip of the middle finger, through the wrist, up the arm, through the shoulder, to the spinal cord. It is possible that the nerve is compressed at other points (elbow, shoulder, neck, etc.) and some people find relief from treatments in these areas. But these treatments will not be effective (e.g. spinal adjustments, wrist surgery, etc.) if they do not address the location and cause of the underlying issue.
That is why I encourage people with these types of concerns to see a personal doctor who can help to diagnose their, specific issues. For Carpal Tunnel syndrome, for example, this may involve a nerve conduction study (or 'EMG' electromyograph) which is like tracing a short in an electrical circuit.
Getting back to the OP concerns, he noted an increase in symptoms with vibration from chainsaw use. The reduced vibration comments do not address his underlying condition, they just help to isolate him from the exposures which bring them on.
Philbert
lmbrman
stumped
In my case they radiologist and nuerologist diagnosed me with carpal tunnel AND severe nerve damage, based mostly on an ultrasound, EMG and MRI. Problems were directly realed to chainsaw vibration and tree limbing. They felt the best course of treatment was surgery for carpal tunnel followed up by dealing with the nerve damage second. As I stated, I am not a medical expert, but I am an expert at MY medical issues. Chiropracter bought me years of relief. Thanks to this thread I am sceduled for an EMG, ultrasound and MRI to compare to the previous ones and see what if anything has changed.
My fault for not explaining the specifics, and I think you are correct that a doctor should be consulted. That was my first attempt to solve the problem.
RandyMac
Stiff Member
EMGs are much fun, I said a bad word on every jolt.
Oxford
ArboristSite Operative
I've had both wrists operated on for carpal tunnel- glorious results of a misspent youth, as Joan Jett once memorably said. I danced around it for years, knowing that it needed to be done. My daughter, interning for an ortho guy at the time, told me that it was up to me if I wanted to live with the tingling, numbness, etc., but if I started dropping things, to get to the doctor immediately as that was a sign of permanent nerve damage being done. It wasn't a month later that I started dropping things.
I immediately went for diagnostics, Randy's right, the EMG will make you lose your religion. Had the surgery, the open kind where you get the suicide scars like Dennis. Best thing I've done. The first night, I woke up because the wrist was sore and realized that my other hand was asleep, but the one that had been operated on that morning although sore was awake.
Don't do them both at the same time.
Oxford
I immediately went for diagnostics, Randy's right, the EMG will make you lose your religion. Had the surgery, the open kind where you get the suicide scars like Dennis. Best thing I've done. The first night, I woke up because the wrist was sore and realized that my other hand was asleep, but the one that had been operated on that morning although sore was awake.
Don't do them both at the same time.
Oxford
lmbrman
stumped
So, if I lost my religion on the first EMG, will I again 'see the light' on a second EMG? lol
Seriously, many thanks to the OP for starting and all for sharing personal experience in this thread.
RandyMac
Stiff Member
They do both arms, so you get some practice in. My beloved wife laughed through the whole ordeal.
No worse that getting blood drawn, and grabbing an electric fence, again, and again, and again, . . . .
RandyMac
Stiff Member
blood draws suck too, giving blood is easier.
lambs
Stihl crazy after all these years
I just had surgery for Cupital tunnel syndrome
And I'm typing this 3 weeks later. Cured the numbness in my right hand "outer" fingers. I've missed a couple weeks of work, but the company covered me. 27 years of keyboarding likely contributed to the problem.
Can't wait to start sawing again, but they say it will be a few more weeks before any heavy lifting. I'm getting more movement in my arm every day, mostly it's just sore inside and tender around the incision.
And I'm typing this 3 weeks later. Cured the numbness in my right hand "outer" fingers. I've missed a couple weeks of work, but the company covered me. 27 years of keyboarding likely contributed to the problem.
Can't wait to start sawing again, but they say it will be a few more weeks before any heavy lifting. I'm getting more movement in my arm every day, mostly it's just sore inside and tender around the incision.
imagineero
Addicted to ArboristSite
I'm not in as bad a way as many on here, but I'm hoping not to get that way either. Lots of good advice posted so far! I have fairly small weak wrists compared to the rest of my body and they cop a hiding. I think running a saw as a climber puts different stresses on your body than working on the ground, even though we do take some big guns up there at times. My biggest pains are cramps in my forearms and some aching going on in my should joints.
I make a conscious effort to use as little effort as possible to get the work done. Having your chain well sorted is a great start. I have to keep checking on myself throughout each day because as you get into the work you start putting a lot more effort into it than you need to. At almost any point in the day while working if I do a head check I find that I have a lot of my muscles tensed up for no real benefit. I make a real point of checking myself often while cutting and I find I can usually drop my shoulders and forearms down 5 or 6 notches of 'tension' and still get the cut done just as fast. Planning your work a little more so you're in a good position helps a lot too. As a climber I try to keep my work between waist and chest height, and less than half an arm length away. I see lots of guys reaching way out to make cuts, it's very tough on your arms.
Shaun
I make a conscious effort to use as little effort as possible to get the work done. Having your chain well sorted is a great start. I have to keep checking on myself throughout each day because as you get into the work you start putting a lot more effort into it than you need to. At almost any point in the day while working if I do a head check I find that I have a lot of my muscles tensed up for no real benefit. I make a real point of checking myself often while cutting and I find I can usually drop my shoulders and forearms down 5 or 6 notches of 'tension' and still get the cut done just as fast. Planning your work a little more so you're in a good position helps a lot too. As a climber I try to keep my work between waist and chest height, and less than half an arm length away. I see lots of guys reaching way out to make cuts, it's very tough on your arms.
Shaun
RandyMac
Stiff Member
A good deal of what still effects me came from hours and hours of making long bucking cuts on big logs. There are only so many ways to do it. The stress of being in one position causes fatigue as well, I went as far as to push the end of the rear grip with my right hand, while hooking my left thumb on the throttle and placing a boot on the front wraps. Keep in mind some of the logs were as big as buses, the saws were old brutes that would toss you off given an opportunity.
garyischofield
ArboristSite Operative
impacto glove insert
I used my leather(ironclad cowboy)gloves with the impacto inserts at work yesterday.The gel not only covers the entire palm but the whole finger.The feel of using the saw bucking and most limbing was nice on the hands.Very smooth.The out of position(reaching)and quick hand changes to cut small limbs felt noticeably annoying.All in all, the out of position work caused me to hold the saw tighter in my hands because of the insecure feeling of the gel pads between me and the saw.I suspect these inserts will dramatically reduce my symptoms when I get around to laying into some big logs with long bars.The inserts should not be as noticeable on bucking cuts .My hands are still tingling but at least I'm hopefully working towards a solution.I'm sure I have an arthritis issue in the wrist as well.Toughening up isn't the whole answer because sometimes I get sharp pains with immediate loss of strength.I need some Mr.Miyagi therapy.I'm trying acupuncture also.I'll post any gains.Randy,I don't understand how you have anything left after using some of the saws you were using,especially with long bars.A lot of stress on the old body.First prerequisite to being a woodcutter,if you can't deal with a lot of pain/physical discomfort and aren't mentally tough,find another occupation.I'm not complaining.I've had an interesting occupation.Gary
I used my leather(ironclad cowboy)gloves with the impacto inserts at work yesterday.The gel not only covers the entire palm but the whole finger.The feel of using the saw bucking and most limbing was nice on the hands.Very smooth.The out of position(reaching)and quick hand changes to cut small limbs felt noticeably annoying.All in all, the out of position work caused me to hold the saw tighter in my hands because of the insecure feeling of the gel pads between me and the saw.I suspect these inserts will dramatically reduce my symptoms when I get around to laying into some big logs with long bars.The inserts should not be as noticeable on bucking cuts .My hands are still tingling but at least I'm hopefully working towards a solution.I'm sure I have an arthritis issue in the wrist as well.Toughening up isn't the whole answer because sometimes I get sharp pains with immediate loss of strength.I need some Mr.Miyagi therapy.I'm trying acupuncture also.I'll post any gains.Randy,I don't understand how you have anything left after using some of the saws you were using,especially with long bars.A lot of stress on the old body.First prerequisite to being a woodcutter,if you can't deal with a lot of pain/physical discomfort and aren't mentally tough,find another occupation.I'm not complaining.I've had an interesting occupation.Gary
Gary... I had the carpal tunnel operation on both hands and both elbows last winter. I wish I hadn't waited so long to do it. Like a lot of people I kept trying to work through the pain and discomfort and tried a lot of different quack remedies.
It got to the point where I couldn't sleep at night for the pain. I'd lost so much strength and dexterity in my hands that I couldn't button my shirts and I couldn't pick up and hold anything. You can imagine what running a saw was like with hands that went completely numb in just a minute.
The surgery helped a lot. I got a lot of the strength back in both hands and it's nice to be able to pick something small off of the work bench without using a hemostat for grip. Running saw is back to normal, too.
But...I waited too long to get the surgery and my hands will never get back to where they were before. Don't get me wrong, the surgery was worth it but if I'd been smarter and gotten it done when the symptoms first presented I would have had better results.
So...don't be a dummy like I was and wait too long. All you're doing now is treating symptoms. Get the operation. Soon.
It got to the point where I couldn't sleep at night for the pain. I'd lost so much strength and dexterity in my hands that I couldn't button my shirts and I couldn't pick up and hold anything. You can imagine what running a saw was like with hands that went completely numb in just a minute.
The surgery helped a lot. I got a lot of the strength back in both hands and it's nice to be able to pick something small off of the work bench without using a hemostat for grip. Running saw is back to normal, too.
But...I waited too long to get the surgery and my hands will never get back to where they were before. Don't get me wrong, the surgery was worth it but if I'd been smarter and gotten it done when the symptoms first presented I would have had better results.
So...don't be a dummy like I was and wait too long. All you're doing now is treating symptoms. Get the operation. Soon.
indiansprings
Firewood Purveyor
Those EMG's will almost make you pizz your pants, had them do them at Mayo on the left leg from from the lower leg to L4/L5, they varied from mild to fry. My wife had carpal t surgery after 25 years of keyboarding, made a big difference for her.
I like the ones with the little air bubbles better than the gel. It does not make sense, intuitively, but seems to work. Because there are lots of little bubbles, instead of larger pieces of gel, I also feel that I have better dexterity on the trigger and grip.
Philbert
