Barber chair!

[slowp]

Ya looks like (Well I hope) they got REAL lucky there. I hope they had a long bar.
Scary thing is, not you or anything is going to stop it.
My question is why does it look like it was bucked for a saw log?
Was these guys the large scale firewooders?

The picture doesn't show the scale of the thing. It was an old growth Douglas-fir and a large one. Not huge, but large.

I checked the cutter's permit the day before. I think they were from Tacoma? They may have cut the length because they realized they had screwed up? They stil screwed up. But the tree was going out in firewood chunks, unfortunately.

The day after I took this picture, the tree had been cut up and was gone, except for the rootwad. The local mill was shut down for a couple of weeks so the competition had ramped up.

Here's the results of a well respected local faller who was called in to cut this snag down. It was within striking distance of a busy county road so needed to come down. It measured 11 feet diameter before exploding. I wasn't there, but looked around afterwards. He prepared for the outcome by having two well cleared escape routes made. No tripping hazards on them.

The stump is underneath the big toothpicks.

One of his prepared escape routes. Don't forget about your escape route.

View attachment 225687View attachment 225688

 

[Preston]

For you comfort , D90, let me assure you I'm no troll. When I was cutting I was cutting only Southern pine. No hardwood at all. I don't really know if the two different woods reacted differently to this barber chair thing. Still I did what I did, right or wrong. Also I do keep my eyes and ears open and only opened my mouth to basically tell what happened to me. Now if on this site exposing wrongs done is not the thing to do, that can be corrected. Then where would you be? Left with no one to show your superiority. Kinda like the song, Lord it's hard to be humble when you're perfect in every way. I can only wish I knew a much as you, but I enjoy learning. I wouldn't want to be like you. I can only imagine sitting around a table trying to have a conversation with you involved. Unlike you I started an absolute virgin, not born an expert. I had nobody to go to for advise as I was in the woods by myself. The close calls I had did help me learn for sure. I never did the same mistake twice, but the cut on the front I didn't know was not right.

Unlike you I learn by asking questions. No one can explain a way to do anything and have everybody understand what they mean. Damn I just wish I had a been born as near perfect as you think you were. :smile2:

 

[jropo]

The picture doesn't show the scale of the thing. It was an old growth Douglas-fir and a large one. Not huge, but large.

I checked the cutter's permit the day before. I think they were from Tacoma? They may have cut the length because they realized they had screwed up? They stil screwed up. But the tree was going out in firewood chunks, unfortunately.

The day after I took this picture, the tree had been cut up and was gone, except for the rootwad. The local mill was shut down for a couple of weeks so the competition had ramped up.

Here's the results of a well respected local faller who was called in to cut this snag down. It was within striking distance of a busy county road so needed to come down. It measured 11 feet diameter before exploding. I wasn't there, but looked around afterwards. He prepared for the outcome by having two well cleared escape routes made. No tripping hazards on them.

The stump is underneath the big toothpicks.

One of his prepared escape routes. Don't forget about your escape route.

View attachment 225687View attachment 225688

I keep forgeting that you guys don't grow small trees.
"I checked the cutters permit"? Forester?
Ya I'd say thems some big tooth picks! 40''?
So the stump exploded? Rot? and the tree came down on top of it?

 

[Hedgerow]

I keep forgeting that you guys don't grow small trees.
"I checked the cutters permit"? Forester?
Ya I'd say thems some big tooth picks! 40''?
So the stump exploded? Rot? and the tree came down on top of it?

I was wondering the same thing...:msp_confused:

 

[slowp]

Retired "forester" now.

That big snag was left up too long. Yes, it had rot. It had been dead and standing for a few years. Somebody finally hollered loud enough.

The faller who did the deed is one that is called when there are hazard trees along roads or in campgrounds that are beyond the skills of the in house faller.

He was on the cover of Madsen's catalog last year in a photo where he was cutting a big tree in a campground.

 

[Hedgerow]

Retired "forester" now.

That big snag was left up too long. Yes, it had rot. It had been dead and standing for a few years. Somebody finally hollered loud enough.

The faller who did the deed is one that is called when there are hazard trees along roads or in campgrounds that are beyond the skills of the in house faller.

He was on the cover of Madsen's catalog last year in a photo where he was cutting a big tree in a campground.

OK.. So this man, being a specialist in hazard trees...
I have to ask, was he surprised by the outcome?
Or did he figure it was inevitable?

 

[jropo]

That is a tasty one HorseFaller.

Yeah barberchairs, pretty cool, but if you want to really ####-up, have a tree uproot on ya.

I never have had a tree uproot, and I hope one never does.

I cut this one last winter that was underminded by the the river and blown over.

View attachment 225699

I was unsure what it was going to do.
1. As soon as I start my top cut, lets the stump lose back into into the river, pulling the tree and me w/ it.
2. As soon as the tree is free from the stump, the stump continues its path and flops my way onto the the log.
3. As soon as I get into it, the pressure caused by the bind that it was in, releases and throws the butt (in the pic the left side).
4. Nothing, log falls to the ground and stump stays put.

What I did was, I cut the top one first, buy standing on the bottom one.
Then on the bottom one, I cut up the top, releived any top bind.
Cleared one heck of a exit route (right side of tree).
(w/ my big saw w/ a 28'' bar for added reach) I did an under cut (if the stump started going back into the river, cut would of started to close, pinching the bar. I got about a 1/3 up then stopped.
Reached under the tree and cut some from the far side, Checked my exit, and ready to use it, WOT, not dogging in, I started the top cut from the far side, and worked my way to my side of the tree and down, using a sawing action to feel for a bind.
Log left the stump and flopped on the ground and I was on the exit. Root wad stayed. Frozen.
Grabbed a stout pole and proped up the root wad. Started bucking, watching the wad at the sightist breeze.
The main reason I wanted to cut this, is so I could watch the wad go back into the river.....SPLASH!!!!
Never went over, until spring, I drove by one day and it flopped back down into the river. With the 4'' stump that I left you would never even know it was there.

These are common it may area, and a good score for a firewooder, but can be dangerious. First instinct is to start sawing on the log. Without knowing what kind of pressure it has on it, could lead to a long day at best.

 

[jropo]

Retired "forester" now.

That big snag was left up too long. Yes, it had rot. It had been dead and standing for a few years. Somebody finally hollered loud enough.

The faller who did the deed is one that is called when there are hazard trees along roads or in campgrounds that are beyond the skills of the in house faller.

He was on the cover of Madsen's catalog last year in a photo where he was cutting a big tree in a campground.

Cool!!!
Do you have the pic to share?
Name?
Sounds like the type of guy that I'd like to have a cup and hold down a chair with, or at least pack his fuel/saw.

 

[slowp]

OK.. So this man, being a specialist in hazard trees...
I have to ask, was he surprised by the outcome?
Or did he figure it was inevitable?

He discussed it a bit in the Logging and Forestry forum. He joined for a while. It is buried in the Falling Pics somewhere. The humongus thread started by Burvol.

Falling isn't his day job anymore. He was injured in a car accident so can't do it full time. He is a contract examiner for the falling and bucking certification of C (over 24 inches) fallers for the government. He sells insurance too.

NW Axman was his user name????

And no, I don't think he was surprised by what happened. He knows his stuff. He learned early, packing gear for his dad, who is also in the Madsen's catalog and was known to be an expert faller.

 

[Dalmatian90]

For you comfort , D90, let me assure you I'm no troll. When I was cutting I was cutting only Southern pine. No hardwood at all. I don't really know if the two different woods reacted differently to this barber chair thing. Still I did what I did, right or wrong. Also I do keep my eyes and ears open and only opened my mouth to basically tell what happened to me. Now if on this site exposing wrongs done is not the thing to do, that can be corrected. Then where would you be? Left with no one to show your superiority. Kinda like the song, Lord it's hard to be humble when you're perfect in every way. I can only wish I knew a much as you, but I enjoy learning. I wouldn't want to be like you. I can only imagine sitting around a table trying to have a conversation with you involved. Unlike you I started an absolute virgin, not born an expert. I had nobody to go to for advise as I was in the woods by myself. The close calls I had did help me learn for sure. I never did the same mistake twice, but the cut on the front I didn't know was not right.

Unlike you I learn by asking questions. No one can explain a way to do anything and have everybody understand what they mean. Damn I just wish I had a been born as near perfect as you think you were. :smile2:

No, not perfect. As I said in my post, I've learned.

I'm not the one who wrote I'd prefer to muddle along in ignorance.

I also don't try and play the humble card while simultaneously copping a superior-to-you attitude.

Just told you straight out why myself, and others, are having a problem trying to figure out if you're serious about your experiences or are instead deliberately trolling.

But this last post pretty much answered my question.

 

[Guido Salvage]

Whatever happened to the slopping back cut for these potential barber chairs?

It went out of vogue when all the various iterations of HBRN were banned.

 

[zogger]

Here's my almost barber chair

This is the one I think I almost chaired last month. I could have used a much better technqiue, and hopefully now I know of one.

disclaimer: golly gee, why dadgum I am a farmer! As such, I am not an expert in any one thing, but am good enough to do dozens of outdoor type work "things". I am always willing to learn to do something better and safer.

I fully acknowledge there are tons of specialists out there who are loads better than me with this or that job. And it doesn't bother me at all or hurt my ego to know I screwed up, and that there was a better way. I am grateful to learn all the time. And usually, for most things, I am all self taught, I usually always work by myself for most jobs I have done. *shrugs* that's just how it is. The internet helps a lot because you can look things up or ask people who know more. Then share it forward when you can.

politely

with that said, here are the details in pics:

Dang, they really DO wear rubber boots, with the pants tucked in..(get yore yuks in! hahahah).this is why, this is exactly what I have to work in doing some of my chores...here's feeding big hungry guys who go moo. Just not real comfy or cost effective or practical to wear 300 dollar leather lace up high heeled clompers doing this sort of work.

A little wider view of where I just walked...

Here's another job. When the creek is low, I drag branches and logs and stuff out. This keeps it from damming up and flooding the fields, or moving a buncha stuff downstream where it can destroy the hanging sheet metal barricade that serves as a suggestion fence for the beefers to stay home. I come around now and then when it is dry enough and harvest this wood for firewood. Notice, rubber waterproof boots are a good idea here as well. I'm standing right in the creek in this pic. I like to cross this thing at least twice a day on foot, so I can check fences and stock on the far side fields. A lot of times, though, I can't, just too deep and fast.

And the almost chair and stump. The tree was a real heavy leaner, on a steep slope, around a 30 degree slope, and the leaner added to that, so call it a 45 degree leaner. I didn't know about this coosbay styled deal, so I just did a carefully cut so as to not pinch, face cut, then came in and back cut from two directions. I dragged any loose branches out of the way, checked my overhead a lot, and listened as good as my ears can still work for anything ...ominous..I did not have a holder strap of wood or bore cut.

I *knew* this was a sucky and dangerous fell job, but I wanted it down for a few reasons, one of which it was going to fall in a storm or two and I don't want uprooted rootballs on this hill. When I cut this last month I didn't know about a better way. It's also real nice oak score (still isn't bucked, too muddy down there) and I am cleaning up this hillside doing my best-again, not an expert, just another of dozens of different jobs- effort at junior woodlot management. I'm taking out goofy bent trees, trees we have too many of, letting some light in to encourage better trees, berming the hillside to conserve topsoil, and etc. There *was* a small amount of fiber on this stump, I just cut pulled strings off when I finish stumps, that's all (fresh stumps good place to take a sit and enjoy life, good before the ants move in..that's a good enough reason for me!), There really wasn't much, this surprised me.

And here it is, the log. You can see the crack and how it split straight up and almost but didn't barber chair. It shot a few feet off the stump downhill with some fair to decent force..... It did drop where I intended it to. So...I give myself a D+ on this job, as it was still too dangerous, and there was a safer better way to do this. Now I know.

Oh, BTW, when I cut, I switch rubber boots to *steel toed* rubber boots. Just because....

So there ya go! Kids, don't do it this way, dumazz farmerz... bad juju, do it the correct way with a holding strip, and possibly add the ratchet straps as well..

 

[branchbuzzer]

And here it is, the log.

Are you sure those are the right pics? The log doesn't seem to match the stump in both, further away from stump in one shot, ground cover different, can't see crack in one pic. Might just be an optical illusion or my old age.

**edit - or that you rolled the log between shots...?

 

[zogger]

Are you sure those are the right pics? The log doesn't seem to match the stump in both, further away from stump in one shot, ground cover different, can't see crack in one pic. Might just be an optical illusion or my old age.

**edit - or that you rolled the log between shots...?

--maybe, I'll check again. Yes it jumped and moved some as it slid down next to another tree. There are a few trees that were close together in the same pile now. the larger one was the leaner. They are laying across each other now. I'll take two more pics today, just the stump and the log showing the crack better, from closer up. I know my pics suck, the resolution on this camera phone is pretty dismal. I'll upgrade once the phone batteries get shot.

I'm just glad it didn't chair and splinter and blow out. I was moving feets hard when it started to go. One of those times you wanted a pole saw with a 20 foot extension..and some guy named moose to run it.

Although I am way more confident now that I have seen and read about these other styled felling cuts, with the T and the triangle for the holding wood strips.

I'd like to see some more vids taken with the idea of really showing up close what is going on and in sequence, doing leaners and so on. I'll practice-carefully-on some smaller ones when I run across some more leaners that can be took.

I'm trying to improve the woods a lot and leave all the good saw logs as much as possible, for ..dunno..way in the future I guess, while maintaining good diversity and leaving a lot of mast for the wild critters and the cows eat some of that too. Just something to do, be a responsible guy I guess.

I look at the woods as a big garden, needs some work now and then, not just harvesting, but weeding and thinning, etc. Plus that immediate pasture area right below those particular trees is a low spot that holds water and doesn't support good grass well, just weeds and pickers, etc. Trying to get a little sunlight in there to help it dry better. The field edges are always the problem areas because that's where the woods want to grow out into, so the whole perimeter needs some trimming all the time. Just whomever before me who was allegedly taking care of the fields..didn't, let too much crap grow up there (that dude eventually got fired).

It had gotten to the point I couldn't even drive the tractor and mower down the edge, so many branches sticking out and overhanging. And the last time anyone logged in there, they just left a mess, wherever it fell. I've drug out dozens of leftover half rotten old log chunks and stuff like that they left right out in the field, then crap grows up around it because you can't mow. I don't consider that very "professional". They may have been able to fell trees and sell logs, but they left a freeking huge mess. AFAIK, talking to my boss, this particular field hadn't been mowed one single time in at least 15 years before I came here. It's taken me several years to get it back to at least there's a lot of good grazing down there now. It was 3/4ths bramble, poke, saplings, huge multiflora organic barbed wire bushes, burdock patches, all sorts of nasty stuff I don't even know the name of, but for sure ain't many critters will eat the stuff.. Ya, it's bottom land swampy, but there's a few times a year you can mow easy and not leave bad ruts. So I hit it then.

 

[Chris-PA]

disclaimer: golly gee, why dadgum I am a farmer! As such, I am not an expert in any one thing, but am good enough to do dozens of outdoor type work "things". I am always willing to learn to do something better and safer.

I fully acknowledge there are tons of specialists out there who are loads better than me with this or that job. And it doesn't bother me at all or hurt my ego to know I screwed up, and that there was a better way. I am grateful to learn all the time. And usually, for most things, I am all self taught, I usually always work by myself for most jobs I have done. *shrugs* that's just how it is. The internet helps a lot because you can look things up or ask people who know more. Then share it forward when you can.

Zogger, a lot of us are generalists, and that's nothing to be ashamed of. The world needs more people who are generally competent in a wide variety of skills, which was once more common. I can plaster pretty well, but I've seen experts do it and, well ..... there's not much comparison. But I can get the job done and have it look good and last, and do the plumbing, framing and wiring that goes behind it too.

I'm a firewood hack. I cut trees in my own woods for firewood to burn in my own stoves. I almost never cut a healthy tree, and there are few trees here in the 36" and larger size (and two of those fell over in the last year). I also work by myself because that's who's here to get the job done. I do not have nor can I afford big equipment - I'm lucky to have a 30hp tractor with a loader, which is a big help. While it's not that big most of what I fall is diseased, damaged, rotted, standing dead, twisted, hollow, leaning, hung, etc. It's pretty much all dangerous. I'm always interested to learn proper techniques in anything I do, but some of what is discussed here is not relevant to what I do. I don't care what the stumps look like, or if the wood cracks, or if it pulls fibers - it's going in the stove. I have no need for a humbolt face cut. My needs are to get it safely on the ground in about the direction I want it to go. This T or triangle cut will be helpful in that regard I think, as will many other things I've learned on AS in the last few months, both in regard to the equipment and technique. But I'm not a logger, nor do I want or need to be.

 

[hardpan]

Zogger, a lot of us are generalists, and that's nothing to be ashamed of. The world needs more people who are generally competent in a wide variety of skills, which was once more common. I can plaster pretty well, but I've seen experts do it and, well ..... there's not much comparison. But I can get the job done and have it look good and last, and do the plumbing, framing and wiring that goes behind it too.

I'm a firewood hack. I cut trees in my own woods for firewood to burn in my own stoves. I almost never cut a healthy tree, and there are few trees here in the 36" and larger size (and two of those fell over in the last year). I also work by myself because that's who's here to get the job done. I do not have nor can I afford big equipment - I'm lucky to have a 30hp tractor with a loader, which is a big help. While it's not that big most of what I fall is diseased, damaged, rotted, standing dead, twisted, hollow, leaning, hung, etc. It's pretty much all dangerous. I'm always interested to learn proper techniques in anything I do, but some of what is discussed here is not relevant to what I do. I don't care what the stumps look like, or if the wood cracks, or if it pulls fibers - it's going in the stove. I have no need for a humbolt face cut. My needs are to get it safely on the ground in about the direction I want it to go. This T or triangle cut will be helpful in that regard I think, as will many other things I've learned on AS in the last few months, both in regard to the equipment and technique. But I'm not a logger, nor do I want or need to be.

Almost my twin resume only my 8N Ford isn't practical with a loader. My 2 big blow downs last year are 36" and 43" white oak, etc. I do it all and sometimes a fair imitation of a pro. Amazing how well our eyes and ears can serve us when hanging out with a few pros and I thank them for taking the time.

 

[Preston]

You must have had a real blow for the white oaks to go over. That's about all I have on my place I trust to stay up. Well, that and the hickory. Red oaks here blow over like punching bags. Just not much of a root system. One year I lost 26 red oaks.:msp_mellow:

 

[darkbyrd]

One year I lost 26 red oaks.:msp_mellow:

Lost it to the woodpile?

 

[Chris-PA]

You must have had a real blow for the white oaks to go over. That's about all I have on my place I trust to stay up. Well, that and the hickory. Red oaks here blow over like punching bags. Just not much of a root system. One year I lost 26 red oaks.:msp_mellow:

I've had large white, northern red and shumard oaks all blow over in the last year and a half. None of them have much in the way of root systems! I look at oaks differently now - strong trees with shallow roots.

 

[hardpan]

One white oak had bad roots, sick and decayed looking, and the whole root wad came out. The other one had a hidden hollow trunk and it broke off about 3' off the ground. Other smaller trees near these 2 also went down or broke off. The last few years our weather has become much more unpredictable. Last year we had all time records beat for rainfall and many totally healthy 140 year old trees pulled their root balls from the saturated ground. Also mini spot tornadoes hit, kind of like the tail briefly flips down to the ground and then dissipates or moves on. Firewood has been easy to find lately even though I seldom cut a healthy tree.