Falling Large Trees with a Small Saw

[Harlen]

I am not new to tree work, but I am sure that I have a lot less experience than others here. I need to fall a couple of very large redwood trees (50" DBH), unfortunately, using a smaller saw (Stihl MS 261, with a 25" bar). Not recommended, I know, but I have done this a couple times before, on slightly smaller trees with good results. I am doing this for a friend, trying to save him money. I have worked just one year as a commercial faller up in Alaska, but all of the trees were white spruce, and never more than 32" butts..... and that was over 35 years ago.

I used a Humboldt notch, and worked my way from side to side on the backcut, used a lot of wedges, and it worked out, but I would like to hear opinions on the best way to make the backcut using the smaller saw; and for that matter, I wonder if there is an argument to use a conventional face-cut? I hunted through the Youtube videos, but didn't find a lot of examples of this-- probably because most fallers will just rent a suitably large saw for these jobs. On both of these shots, there is nothing to hit of concern, other than myself, should I cause a barber chair, or ??? Feel free to give me ****, I can take it, but what I really want is reasoned advice on the best technique to safely fall these trees. Thanks for your help, Harlen.

 

[J D]

I'm not the most experienced feller by any means, but I would say debark around the area you intend to cut & you will shave 4-6" off your diameter. As long as the tree is healthy & you're sending it the way it wants to go there shouldn't be an issue making a notch on the wider & deeper side. Then bore the middle out through the notch before making the back cut.
The right answer here is probably that if your not sure you should get hold of a bigger saw. The last thing you want to do is put yourself in the position you've made all the cuts you can & you're left with a dangerous tree that you can't get to fall over

 

[Mad Professor]

It can be done. Years ago when it was all I had, I felled a 50" DBH ash with a Homie Super XL using a 24" bar.

 

[TheJollyLogger]

I rarely ran anything more than a 25. Open face notch, bore the center if necessary, then walk the backcut around, starting on the bad side of the tree.

 

[Harlen]

I'm not the most experienced feller by any means, but I would say debark around the area you intend to cut & you will shave 4-6" off your diameter. As long as the tree is healthy & you're sending it the way it wants to go there shouldn't be an issue making a notch on the wider & deeper side. Then bore the middle out through the notch before making the back cut.
The right answer here is probably that if your not sure you should get hold of a bigger saw. The last thing you want to do is put yourself in the position you've made all the cuts you can & you're left with a dangerous tree that you can't get to fall over

Gidday JD, all the way from New Zealand... where I spent one of the happiest years of my young life-- hiking and climbing in the Southern Alps, and working on ranches and farms. (Interestingly, I took on a tree job in Otago, removing a huge snagle of wind-fallen trees from California. It was our Monterey Pines, and Cypress, which you lot call "Radiata" and "Macrocarpa"--- educated buggers!)

JD, do I understand your technique to be this?: Debark; make a (relatively) deep face-cut/notch; then bore out a bit of the centre, leaving a large amount of hinge wood on the sides? This will perhaps fix my main problem-- my worry that the saw won't reach deep enough during the back cut to set the tree going. Thanks a lot JD, I wouldn't have thought of that. Do I understand you correctly?

When I felled the big trees before, I was concerned about making the back cut, moving from one side of the tree to the other.... just felt sketchy. I am interested in the standard bore-cutting technique-- moving from the hinge backward, and leaving a holding strap, but I will still be moving from side to side. As i said above, the landing isn't too critical- just can't get it hung up. Thanks again mate. Ian.

 

[Harlen]

I rarely ran anything more than a 25. Open face notch, bore the center if necessary, then walk the backcut around, starting on the bad side of the tree.

Thanks JollyLogger. You too are advising the bore cut backward, from inside the notch? You also mention an open face notch; I was contemplating making a relatively deep face cut, I wonder how deep I can go on this big, healthy Redwood-- 40%? Why the open face? Thanks again, Ian.

 

[TheJollyLogger]

Thanks JollyLogger. You too are advising the bore cut backward, from inside the notch? You also mention an open face notch; I was contemplating making a relatively deep face cut, I wonder how deep I can go on this big, healthy Redwood-- 40%? Why the open face? Thanks again, Ian.

The open face gives you more room to get the power head in to bore.

 

[Harlen]

The open face gives you more room to get the power head in to bore.

Got it, you're dead right!

 

[TheJollyLogger]

Got it, you're dead right!

Well, it ain't my first rodeo...

 

[TheJollyLogger]

Got it, you're dead right!

In my eyes, the Humboldt only has 2 advantages... to make a cleaner cut for logging, and to make the tree jump off the stump. Other than that, I would always choose a conventional or open face notch over a Humboldt, but keep in mind most of my experience in in urban areas where keeping the tree was in a closed environment where keeping the tree as close to the stump was important. We often couldn't afford any roll side to side.

 

[J D]

Hi Ian,
Glad you enjoyed your time down here, it may be the bottom of the world, but it's not a bad place at all.
As far as method goes you've got the right idea. Removing the bark may be a bit arduous but it will make judging everything easier if you don't have much room for error. As Jollylogger said, wide or open face notch allows you to get the saw in there to bore. I wouldn't notch to 40% deep, maybe 25%, knowing you may need to take a bit more to clean it up. When you bore through the notch you don't need to go too wide, you can "fan" the saw back & forth to take more out behind the hinge. Think about cutting a notch that best allows you to get your powerhead in there. Boring your back cut is preferable as if you just cut towards the hinge you risk getting the bar pinched depending on how the wood releases & if your back cut is above the bore through the notch

 

[gggGary]

How much would it cost to rent a large saw for a few hours?
Compared to say the risk of being the guy boring in through the notch?

 

[TheJollyLogger]

There's nothing risky about boring through the notch.

 

[gggGary]

I wouldn't know, among other things I haven't seen the tree..............

What I have seen is guys taking saving pennies further than they should.
A guy with a property with Sequia's can afford finding a large saw for his buddy to use.

 

[cookies]

but there is areal risk of pinching and getting the bar stuck, 2 saws needed minimum so might as well get the bigger one and be done with it instead of running the risk of leaving a widow maker until you get back.

 

[TheJollyLogger]

but there is areal risk of pinching and getting the bar stuck, 2 saws needed minimum so might as well get the bigger one and be done with it instead of running the risk of leaving a widow maker until you get back.

That's what wedges are for.

 

[sonny580]

I would rent a saw big enough to start with!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[pdqdl]

In my eyes, the Humboldt only has 2 advantages... to make a cleaner cut for logging, and to make the tree jump off the stump. Other than that, I would always choose a conventional or open face notch over a Humboldt, but keep in mind most of my experience in in urban areas where keeping the tree was in a closed environment where keeping the tree as close to the stump was important. We often couldn't afford any roll side to side.

There is a 3rd, and really excellent reason to use the Humboldt.
When you are putting a big, deep notch in a large tree, that wedge can be damned difficult to push out of the face cut. Deciduous trees don't break up nearly as easy as the conifers, either.

When I have done big cuts on the ground level, it's not that big of a deal. If you happen to be chunking down a 4' diameter log standing on spurs in a tree, you are going to need something to help slide that wedge off, as well as some help getting the log off.

 

[TheJollyLogger]

There is a 3rd, and really excellent reason to use the Humboldt.
When you are putting a big, deep notch in a large tree, that wedge can be damned difficult to push out of the face cut. Deciduous trees don't break up nearly as easy as the conifers, either.

When I have done big cuts on the ground level, it's not that big of a deal. If you happen to be chunking down a 4' diameter log standing on spurs in a tree, you are going to need something to help slide that wedge off, as well as some help getting the log off.

I'll grant you that one, so 3

 

[Harlen]

The Jolly Logger wrote: I rarely ran anything more than a 25. Open face notch, bore the center if necessary, then walk the backcut around, starting on the bad side of the tree.

I think I will go with that bold advice. Thanks for all of the thoughtful comments-- I've learned a lot, and I feel confident it'll work out. I'll surely have a ton of wedges... wasn't it Archimedes who said: "With enough wedges, I can move the Earth?"