wanna build a strong working 044

[blsnelling]

What Thomas does with other people's words.

 

[Jon1212]

That's only if you wanted to have them ported the same way. Some people are capable of porting saws differently and having each be strong using different formulas. Others don't have the ability to figure out what needs to be done and adjust the formula accordingly.

They typically throw their hands up and say that it can't be done. When what they should be saying is that they can't do it.

So the same set of parameters can't be used from cylinder to cylinder? Is this due to differences in casting, and port configuration from each manufacturer?

 

[blsnelling]

So the same set of parameters can't be used from cylinder to cylinder? Is this due to differences in casting, and port configuration from each manufacturer?

I think what he's trying to say, is that different models of saws require different mods than others. They don't all respond the same to the same mods.

 

[thomas1]

What Thomas does with other people's words.

I am curious how I twist your words by directly quoting you?

 

[blsnelling]

I am curious how I twist your words by directly quoting you?

Words have everything to do with the context they were originally written in. A fine example is of you linking the 066 above, knowing that this is about the 460. Context, context. Comprehende?

 

[Jon1212]

I think what he's trying to say, is that different models of saws require different mods than others. They don't all respond the same to the same mods.

If you had three 50mm cylinders for a Stihl, one being OEM, and the other two from different AM manufacturers for that particular Stihl, would there be that much difference in port position and angle that you couldn't port them the same, and achieve very similar results?

 

[thomas1]

So the same set of parameters can't be used from cylinder to cylinder? Is this due to differences in casting, and port configuration from each manufacturer?

Bingo. If you start with different castings they may have more or less material in certain areas.

Lots of factors come into play, some R&D time is needed to optimize the parameters.

 

[Mastermind]

B'rad.......do you have a ported 460?

 

[blsnelling]

If you had three 50mm cylinders for a Stihl, one being OEM, and the other two from different AM manufacturers for that particular Stihl, would there be that much difference in port position and angle that you couldn't port them the same, and achieve very similar results?

That's exactly my point. I did that with a AM 460 cylinder, and it didn't compare to a ported OEM cylinder. It needed something more. It wasn't worth my time to figure out what it needed. I simply replaced it with an OEM cylinder, knowing that it would run as intended.

 

[Jon1212]

Some guys know how to make aftermarket cylinders run, and some don't. Plain fact.

And there's lots of video out there to prove it. This thread is turning into a boring pissing match. I'm not that bored right now.

Why bother? Never tried. There are plenty of other reasons to leave them alone. I simply don't care to mess with them. To the best of my knowledge, no one has ever demonstrated that the ported AM topend equals the performance of the OEM topend. I've asked for that comparison, but have not seen it.

Words have everything to do with the context they were originally written in. A fine example is of you linking the 066 above, knowing that this is about the 460. Context, context. Comprehende?

Brad,
I think it was because you made a generalization about AM vs OEM, again. Tom was demonstrating that AM kits can be modded to perform as well as if not better than a modified OEM set up.

 

[blsnelling]

B'rad.......do you have a ported 460?

I only have my 440/460 hybrid, and Dad's stock 046 (MMd).

 

[thomas1]

I think what he's trying to say, is that different models of saws require different mods than others. They don't all respond the same to the same mods.

I'm not trying to say anything, I have said it quite clearly. Add this to the list of things you don't understand.

By your logic all saws of the same model should run exactly the same. In reality this is not the case.

 

[thomas1]

Words have everything to do with the context they were originally written in. A fine example is of you linking the 066 above, knowing that this is about the 460. Context, context. Comprehende?

You mean like the threads where you rave about how great the aftermarket cylinders are?

 

[Jon1212]

I'm not trying to say anything, I have said it quite clearly. Add this to the list of things you don't understand.

By your logic all saws of the same model should run exactly the same. In reality this is not the case.

I have a much maligned MS 390 that is at least 40% better than stock, due to porting, and muffler modification.

 

[blsnelling]

Brad,
I think it was because you made a generalization about AM vs OEM, again. Tom was demonstrating that AM kits can be modded to perform as well as if not better than a modified OEM set up.

I understand that. The problem is that Thomas is mean spirited and malicious in his demeanor. Randy says it like it is. These cylinders are nothing more than chunks of aluminum with holes in them. If you don't like the holes like they are, grind them out. That is true. My point, is that they are more troube to port, and not worth my time. I never tried to figure out what was missing with that cylinder. I gave it away. For many reasons, I choose not to use them. Different strokes for different folks. The difference is that we don't have to be ugly about it like Thomas is.

 

[blsnelling]

You mean like the threads where you rave about how great the aftermarket cylinders are?

Live and learn Thomas, live and learn. There was a day that I also was hopeful and optimistic about AM cylinders. After years of continuing to see the same problems, I got frustrated with them and decided that they weren't worth me messing with. You want to act like I'm some kind of flip flopper, but I have never been willing to put AM cylinders on a saw that someone is paying me to port. I'm not settling for 2nd best. Why risk their money and my reputation? IMHO, it's not a wise investment. That's my opinion, and I'm entitled to it. If you don't like my opinion, no one's forcing you to agree with me. Let it go!

 

[thomas1]

I understand that. The problem is that Thomas is mean spirited and malicious in his demeanor. Randy says it like it is. These cylinders are nothing more than chunks of aluminum with holes in them. If you don't like the holes like they are, grind them out. That is true. My point, is that they are more troube to port, and not worth my time. I never tried to figure out what was missing with that cylinder. I gave it away. For many reasons, I choose not to use them. Different strokes for different folks. The difference is that we don't have to be ugly about it like Thomas is.

Now your saying that they are just chunks of aluminum and given the ambition someone should be able to make one run just as well as the other, but you can't be bothered to do that? Therefore no one can do it?

Sorry if I twisted that, I'm having a little trouble keeping up with whether you've flipped or flopped at this point.

 

[blsnelling]

Now your saying that they are just chunks of aluminum and given the ambition someone should be able to make one run just as well as the other, but you can't be bothered to do that? Therefore no one can do it?

Where did I say that it can't be done?

 

[thomas1]

Live and learn Thomas, live and learn. There was a day that I also was hopeful and optimistic about AM cylinders. After years of continuing to see the same problems, I got frustrated with them and decided that they weren't worth me messing with. You want to act like I'm some kind of flip flopper, but I have never been willing to put AM cylinders on a saw that someone is paying me to port. I'm not settling for 2nd best. Why risk their money and my reputation? IMHO, it's not a wise investment. That's my opinion, and I'm entitled to it. If you don't like my opinion, no one's forcing you to agree with me. Let it go!

Since you're not settling for second best can we assume that when you post that a saw was the "strongest one you've ever built" you recall all the previous ones that you've done to upgrade them? They should all be equal, correct? Why would one be any stronger than another?

 

[blsnelling]

Since you're not settling for second best can we assume that when you post that a saw was the "strongest one you've ever built" you recall all the previous ones that you've done to upgrade them? They should all be equal, correct? Why would one be any stronger than another?

Are you saying that you never try to improve yourself?