This 066 Grenaded........What The Hell Happened???????

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blsnelling said:
Has anyone ever tested how much 32:1 vs 50:1, for example, actually affects the tune? I suspect that it would be very little. I've not tested it though.
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I have not tested the different mix ratios, but 100% dyno vs. 100% synthetic, both at 50:1 the revs went up noticeably running with synthetic.
 
BKrusher said:
Funny I posted a reply to a thread about a week ago saying I learned the 32:1 was a good idea and its easy to mix from Randy and somebody here labeled it "dumb"...:dizzy:...oh well:D
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Odd. Whilst reading through this thread and posting here, they have been changing the feedback options in the right hand lower corner of posts. They removed all but the thumbs up and thumbs down. No more 'dumb'. All the other ratings listed in the user profile are gone now as well, useful, dumb, funny, and otherwise. So your "dumb" feedback is gone now.
 
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windthrown said:
I did notice that when I switched from Castrol FB dyno oil to Mobil 1 synthetic many years ago that my saws all instantly revved higher. I had to retune them all. I have never blown a saw engine with the synthetic oil and premium E0 gas, or even with premium E10 gas for the short time that I was forced to use it. I run my saws a tad rich (limiters removed and 4-stroke at WOT).

I use ELF 100% synthetic motorcycle 2-smoke racing oil. It has a blue dye in it so you know it is mixed in the gas, and it does not have any funky smells. I used to use Mobile 1 synthetic but they stopped selling it in the states some years ago. Dunno why that was. They still sell it in Oz. Any full synthetic JASO FD oil should be fine, even at 50:1, IMO. Running 80:1 is really pushing it, AO or not. I never ran any of the 100:1 oil in my saws. I also use Sta-Bil red to keep the octane high in my gas. Low octane (regular or old gas) in a higher compression modified saw is likely to cause pre-ignition. It may not cause engine failure, but it may cause the piston to tilt a tad one way or the other and cause piston scuffing and cylinder scoring.
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That's interesting about the piston tilt with preignition, hadn't heard that before. thanks.

I was wondering about similar in the "one ring or two rings" various threads, my thinking being, two rings is more friction, but might help keep the piston centered better.
 
windthrown said:
I did notice that when I switched from Castrol FB dyno oil to Mobil 1 synthetic many years ago that my saws all instantly revved higher. I had to retune them all. I have never blown a saw engine with the synthetic oil and premium E0 gas, or even with premium E10 gas for the short time that I was forced to use it. I run my saws a tad rich (limiters removed and 4-stroke at WOT).

I use ELF 100% synthetic motorcycle 2-smoke racing oil. It has a blue dye in it so you know it is mixed in the gas, and it does not have any funky smells. I used to use Mobile 1 synthetic but they stopped selling it in the states some years ago. Dunno why that was. They still sell it in Oz. Any full synthetic JASO FD oil should be fine, even at 50:1, IMO. Running 80:1 is really pushing it, AO or not. I never ran any of the 100:1 oil in my saws. I also use Sta-Bil red to keep the octane high in my gas. Low octane (regular or old gas) in a higher compression modified saw is likely to cause pre-ignition. It may not cause engine failure, but it may cause the piston to tilt a tad one way or the other and cause piston scuffing and cylinder scoring.
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From what I gather, Mobil stopped manufacturing it in the states because the 2 stroke bike manufacturers started changing over to making only 4 strokes, so Mobil figured that the market for that oil would be in far less demand (imo they were wrong, because those that used it for every other application would have still had high demand, as more people found out how good it was).
 
I have been alternating between Amsoil Sabre @ 40:1 and Echo Red Armor @ 40:1 in my ported saws. I use non ethanol 89 gas.

Amsoil is the most cost effective at $10 a quart. Echo red armor was recommended by the mechanic at a local 2 stroke dealer that works on a ton of 2 stroke saws, blowers, etc. He says the
Echo red armor is his favorite and feels it keeps the engines much cleaner. He notices a difference just after a few tanks.

Is there any reason to switch oil or mix ratio ?

I do use a ratio rite mixing cup to make sure I am at 40:1
 
gsrsol84mm said:
I have been alternating between Amsoil Sabre @ 40:1 and Echo Red Armor @ 40:1 in my ported saws. I use non ethanol 89 gas.

Amsoil is the most cost effective at $10 a quart. Echo red armor was recommended by the mechanic at a local 2 stroke dealer that works on a ton of 2 stroke saws, blowers, etc. He says the
Echo red armor is his favorite and feels it keeps the engines much cleaner. He notices a difference just after a few tanks.

Is there any reason to switch oil or mix ratio ?

I do use a ratio rite mixing cup to make sure I am at 40:1
Click to expand...

I think you'll be fine. 40:1 doesn't worry be at all. 50:1 seems insane though.
 
windthrown said:
Odd. Whilst reading through this thread and posting here, they have been changing the feedback options in the right hand lower corner of posts. They removed all but the thumbs up and thumbs down. No more 'dumb'. All the other ratings listed in the user profile are gone now as well, useful, dumb, funny, and otherwise. So your "dumb" feedback is gone now.
Click to expand...
Wasn't my intent...lol...I just noticed that too. Dumb things are posted all the time... me included in this. I couldn't understand why posting what a well respected builder taught me would be dumb though..but to each his own.:laugh:
 
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what oil is in true fuel? I have been running 40:1 truefuel (except on big jobs) I re modded one of the echos muffler
and there was a little sticky deposite in the exhaust, didnt pull any other mufflers but all the saws seem to run real good
on this stuff. the echos seem weak on 32:1, the 500evl was real bad. I put 50:1 true fuel in it and it woke up alot.
and yes I always retune for the fuel I use :) around here all the gas has ethanol :(
 
BKrusher said:
Wasn't my intent...lol...I just noticed that too. Dumb things are posted all the time... me included in this. I couldn't understand why posting what a well respected builder taught me would be dumb though..but to each his own.:laugh:
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Well respected? Welp, looks like I've got a few folks fooled. :D
 
zogger said:
That's interesting about the piston tilt with preignition, hadn't heard that before. thanks.

I was wondering about similar in the "one ring or two rings" various threads, my thinking being, two rings is more friction, but might help keep the piston centered better.
Click to expand...

Yah, uneven burning is an issue the higher the compression becomes (from pre ignition) or the lower the octane (the 'bad gas' effect). Most saws are designed to run on much higher octane European gas, and then re-tuned to run on crappy US mid-grade. Also gas octane drops fast once it leaves the refinery. Pump listed octane ratings in the US are refinery tested + pump tested divided by two. The actual pump mid-grade octane is likely to be lower than 89, and it will fall a lot more sitting in a small gas can in your garage unless it is treated. That is why I use premium gas. I also use Sta-Bil red to keep the octane from going any lower and it keeps the gas fresh for a year.

I favor 2 rings myself, and I also favor stiffer rings for higher compression. I know many prefer one ring and softer rings for less friction. For older stock saws, I notice much better performance after putting stiffer Caber rings in them. I doubt that 2 rings offer any greater resistance to piston tilt and scuffing, as they are fully compressed at TDC and they are near the top of the piston where ring leverage would be minimal.
 
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Oh yah, and if I was modding saws with really high compression, I would also insist that the buyers use premium gas in them to prevent pre-ignition and flaring. Mid-grade ain't gonna cut it. Stock saws have what, about 175# compression? If MM saws are over 210#, that is a gain of 20%. Also if you are advancing the timing several degrees, like on the MM modded 461, you need a more even burning fuel. Also adding premix oil lowers the gas octane, and adding more oil will lower it even more.
 
Didn't read the whole thread, but I saw where this was going in the first two pics. I've been beating this dead horse for the better part of ten years now, and the subject keeps coming up time and time again. I've posted pics, information from every corner of the 2 cycle lube industry. I even posted Q & A's involving head chemists that work for 2T oil manufactures, from Maxima and Fuchs Silkolene, all to no avail. Posted pics of a 441 that was ran on Amsoil @ 100:1 at least a dozen times, and people simply look the other way.

The lawn forums have heavy Amsoil sponsorship and they pump that stuff up to be the greatest thing out there, so one needs to read between the lines.

This isn't just an EPA issue. Manufactures have a baseline of durability. If something doesn't last long enough, that's bad for business, if it lasts too long it's bad fore business. 50:1 will allow stock saw to last just long enough, now port the engine and see what happens.

Andre'
 
cobey said:
what oil is in true fuel? I have been running 40:1 truefuel (except on big jobs) I re modded one of the echos muffler
and there was a little sticky deposite in the exhaust, didnt pull any other mufflers but all the saws seem to run real good
on this stuff. the echos seem weak on 32:1, the 500evl was real bad. I put 50:1 true fuel in it and it woke up alot.
and yes I always retune for the fuel I use :) around here all the gas has ethanol :(
Click to expand...

Most likely Motul. Oil in the muffler has a lot to do with the type of dispersant used in the oil, and likely the oils flash point. carb tuning obviously plays a part as well. Oil in the exhaust can isn't necessarily bad.
 

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