I have an idea on how to get rid of coals faster. What you think?

[cmsmoke]

Did any of you guys with coaling issues ever check for overdraft? May be off base, but could be...especially since it gets worse with low temps. outside.

 

[fixit1960]

I have no ash pan. I burn between 3 and 4 cord a year depending on the winter we have with the majority of the wood being seasoned Doug Fir/Larch mix along with a bit of apple and mountain ash. I do burn a cord of lodgepole pine usually half at the beginning of the season and the other half at the end of the season. The stove has been burning 24/7 since late October here.

Clean wood is between 0.45 and 1.5% ash depending on wood species and various other factors so the ash generation should be relatively small. That means for the typical cord of firewood you should be somewhere between 10 and 45 pounds of ash. Wood ash is about 50 lb/cubic foot dry.

We maintain the house at a comfortable 72-74 through most of the house although the laundry room being the furthest away gets down into the 50's on really cold days since it's on the far corner of the house and sometimes the living room you can get baked out depending on how warm it is outside. When I load the stove for the last time around 10 or 11PM it runs from then until generally 7AM or 7:30 the next morning when I load it again. If it's really cold out the house dips down to 65-67 but if the temps outside are above 20ish the house will be about 68-70 at the reload.

Okay, It sounds like you have yours dialed in real well. That's good. The ash comment I made was based on my experience with an add on I ran for 15 years and it did have an ash pan. ( have an OWB now) About every 3 or 4 days I had to empty so when you made the comment about 6 to 8 weeks ...well you evidently have a built in ash HOPPER. Probably will store about 1 to 1 1/2 cubic feet. About 4 times larger than my ash tray on my old stove. And you burn about a 1/3 of what I did to heat my 2000 sq ft, 2 story 136 year old farm house. I live in eastern Iowa, our climate is probably just a little colder than yours I'm guessing.

At any rate lets amicably agree to disagree on any number of things and lets get back to helping those who haven't mastered their heating application as of yet....

 

[GVS]

If I have a lot of coals, it is usually after work, I sift with homemade tool, leave door wide open for a couple hours, heat pours out of stove and burns down good. Throw some kindling with a couple strips of paper, more wood over the rest of coals and come back ten minutes later and close door. Stir minimal coals in AM when wake up, throw 4-6 chunks of pine kindling with a few strips of paper, load wood, leave door open for 10 minutes, close door and go to work.

I don't remember as a kid having the old Fisher's or Woodland's holding coals that long.......good or bad I don't know, was a kid.

Although, if I have coals, pine kindling and a couple strips of newspaper and ten minutes I have a great fire. Starts a lot faster than a cold start. Stove usually burns 24/7

Works for me, I like fire and don't mind checking on it.....

A grate would seem like a PITA to me.....Mine has secondaries but is far from an Elitist, it was on sale for $300, marked down from $1100 or so.......I don't allow any commie bastards in my house...

Yeah,I paid under $1000.00 for my "elitist" stove too. Doesn't sound all that elitist to me.Wonder what W/S paid for his "commoner" unit.

 

[Whitespider]

Wonder what W/S paid for his "commoner" unit.

Ummm... the term "elitist stove" ain't derived from the cost of the units, just as the term "smoke dragon" ain't derived from the from the fact they look like a dragon (and, they don't necessarily "smoke" more than an elitist stove either).
It's about the attitude of a few (I said "a few") who own them and see the non-elitist firebox owner as a lessor life-form... a scourge on the planet in need of eradication for the good of mankind... (i.e., my choice to use one should be legislated away by the more intelligent life-forms, such as themselves).

Elitist: A person who believes that they are superior to others because of their intellect, social status, wealth, possessions, or other factors.
A person who believes in rule by an elite group... whom they generally consider themselves to be a member of.
adjective: Characteristic of, or resembling a snob: (snobbish, snobby, high-hat, snooty, stuck-up, uppish, uppity, pretentious, condescending, hoity-toity).
noun: One who despises people or things regarded as inferior, especially because of social or intellectual pretension: (snob, snoot).

As far as what I paid for my furnace... well... I bought it used from a member here, and then did my own modifications. I have no problem stating exactly what I paid for it... but I don't think it would be appropriate because of the other member. So I'll just say... based on how several members here price firewood for sale... I have less in my furnace than it would cost me to buy a couple cord of firewood in several areas of the country.
*

 

[Whitespider]

OH‼ And I have even less than that in my elitist stove... the stove was given to me free, it came with stove pipe, and I spent something around 50-75 bucks on the modifications (don't remember exactly now).
I get a lot of free stuff... stoves, firewood, furniture, appliances, the flooring I put in the kitchen last year, even the 1991 Windstar van my wife drives was given to me. People (friends) like me (even if some of y'all don't) and know they can count on me... I'm always willin' to help someone out (as long as they're willin' to help themselves), no matter how nasty the job... ya' get back what ya' put in... the more ya' put in, the more ya' get back.
*

 

[Del_]

Ummm... the term "elitist stove" ain't derived from the cost of the units, just as the term "smoke dragon" ain't derived from the from the fact they look like a dragon (and, they don't necessarily "smoke" more than an elitist stove either).
It's about the attitude of a few (I said "a few") who own them and see the non-elitist firebox owner as a lessor life-form... a scourge on the planet in need of eradication for the good of mankind... (i.e., my choice to use one should be legislated away by the more intelligent life-forms, such as themselves).

Elitist: A person who believes that they are superior to others because of their intellect, social status, wealth, possessions, or other factors.
A person who believes in rule by an elite group... whom they generally consider themselves to be a member of.
adjective: Characteristic of, or resembling a snob: (snobbish, snobby, high-hat, snooty, stuck-up, uppish, uppity, pretentious, condescending, hoity-toity).
noun: One who despises people or things regarded as inferior, especially because of social or intellectual pretension: (snob, snoot).

*

That's a pretty big load of crapola you're shoveling there good buddy.

It's a shame you feel the need to bring lies like this to the forum.

 

[Whitespider]

It's not nice to call someone a liar Del_... shame on you.
So... did you think I was talkin' 'bout you??
I know the skunk always smells its own stink first... but...
*

 

[Del_]

It's not nice to call someone a liar Del_... shame on you.

But that is exactly what you are doing.

No one here has suggested that they are a better person than another because of the wood stoves they use.

That's your fabrication.

 

[Whitespider]

No one here has suggested that they are a better person than another because of the wood stoves they use.

No one here?? Is that some sort of joke??

Listen, I'm ain't gonna' go back and quote all the names and accusations that's been hurled at me over the last 3-4 years simply because I disagree the elitist firebox is the best thing since slice bread... because I disagree they're the be-all-to-end-all of wood stoves. I've even been accused of destroying the earth and being anti-American because of the type box I burn in (as well as because of my views). I've been called a cretin, scumbag, sleazeball, and I can't remember what all. Heck, just @slowp alone has come up with several names I had to look up the urban definition of. And then there's been the attacks on my character and intelligence. Good lord man, the thread that brought us the "giant pulsating brain" thing was one degrading innuendo after another.

Man... you really don't live in reality, do you??
*

 

[Cerran]

Okay, It sounds like you have yours dialed in real well. That's good. The ash comment I made was based on my experience with an add on I ran for 15 years and it did have an ash pan. ( have an OWB now) About every 3 or 4 days I had to empty so when you made the comment about 6 to 8 weeks ...well you evidently have a built in ash HOPPER. Probably will store about 1 to 1 1/2 cubic feet. About 4 times larger than my ash tray on my old stove. And you burn about a 1/3 of what I did to heat my 2000 sq ft, 2 story 136 year old farm house. I live in eastern Iowa, our climate is probably just a little colder than yours I'm guessing.

At any rate lets amicably agree to disagree on any number of things and lets get back to helping those who haven't mastered their heating application as of yet....

I think what all the disagreement is about is that stove manufacturers do a very poor job of giving a realistic measure of heating performance. This means a person has to do extensive research before choosing a stove to make sure what they buy will work for them. I do think the newer combustion technology is sound and better than the pre-epa designs, however that being said many of the new stoves obviously don't work right for many people.

My point is we should be asking the right questions so that a list of stoves can be developed based on user feedback where they work and where they don't. I have a sneaking suspicion that for some of the stoves it's because of the stove design and the type of wood being burned. Hardwoods in my limited experience with them tend to have a longer coaling stage than softwoods which is obvious when I burn mountain ash or apple.

It's almost as if for the new stoves there needs to be a setting on the secondaries and primary air to adjust the ratio to a different setting when burning softwood versus hardwood. Either that or just buy a cat stove and be done with it. When I pull out the factory built fireplace in a few years, I'll likely move to a Blaze King cat stove myself.

 

[Chris-PA]

We don't seem to be able to have a rational discussion of these stoves, because like usual in the US these days everything is stated in terms of absolutes, and every issue accumulates so much emotional baggage it becomes impossible to discuss it.

WS usually states that the secondary combustion stoves do not and/or cannot work or be used for primary heat, or equivalent words to that effect, while contending he's just saying they don't work for him and defending against persecution. That irritates the many of us who actually use them for primary heat. Personally I object to the tactic of inflating what are for others of us minor or non-issues into fatal flaws that would mean the designs are useless - it is to me a dis-information campaign based on unrelated idealogical issues of which I have no interest. There are people who read this stuff that do not know the background of the members and who are looking for real information, and that is obscured by noise, and this bothers me.

Pieces of steel and iron don't have political agendas or harbor elitist attitudes. These are stoves - certain types have advantages and disadvantages and particular characteristics, and some design implementations are better than others. Unfortunately we cannot have discussions about that because all of them get derailed.

 

[fixit1960]

I think what all the disagreement is about is that stove manufacturers do a very poor job of giving a realistic measure of heating performance meaning a person has to do extensive research before choosing a stove to make sure what they buy will work for them. I do think the newer combustion technology is sound and better than the pre-epa designs, however that being said many of the new stoves obviously don't work right for many people.

My point is we should be asking the right questions so that a list of stoves can be developed based on user feedback where they work and where they don't. I have a sneaking suspicion that for some of the stoves it's because of the stove design and the type of wood being burned. Hardwoods in my limited experience with them tend to have a longer coaling stage than softwoods which is obvious when I burn mountain ash or apple.

It's almost as if for the new stoves there needs to be a setting on the secondaries and primary air to adjust the ratio to a different setting when burning softwood versus hardwood. Either that or just buy a cat stove and be done with it. When I pull out the factory built fireplace in a few years, I'll likely move to a Blaze King cat stove myself.

From what I have seen and read I would agree with that statement. I feel the manufacturers have tried to over simplify the controls or remove the air controls altogether. This would allow them to get the EPA certifications or/and make an excellent sales pitch to those not in the know about how 'easy " it is to run. No controls to mess with and so on. When a person buys it and his climate circumstances (polar vortex) reach the outer limits of the stove the provisions, we used to be able to make adjustments and be able to make it work through the cold spells. That ability, it seems, has been removed on most choices now. I see this as an undesirable intrusion in our daily life which I don't feel is warranted or necessary in most cases.

I will concede in some areas of the country, due to the topography, there are times any additional pollution can be deemed as not only unwanted but harmful to some. Most of America doesn't fall under that category and I don't subscribe to the global warming ideas. Consequently those engineering and regulatory constraints placed on burner manufacturers are intrusive and take away our rights as consumers to buy what we want and tailor it to fit our needs.

And that I feel, is where we differ . But that's okay, probably nothing either you or I, do or say, will change any of it..

And the Cat issue isn't clear cut. I was told by a manufacturer that they need to be tested periodically and are expected to last approximately 5 seasons before they would need to be replaced. Estimated cost is 500.00 for a stove similar in size to what you would probably run.

 

[1project2many]

I'm convinced that many people here have unrealistic expectations of how a wood stove should operate and that many people have chosen the incorrect stove for their application hence why they are unhappy.

Sounds about right. The trick is in figuring out what's right and wrong about a particular stove.

My point is we should be asking the right questions so that a list of stoves can be developed based on user feedback where they work and where they don't.

Yep. Once some trends become apparent it will be easier for people to avoid choosing the wrong stove.

It's almost as if for the new stoves there needs to be a setting on the secondaries and primary air to adjust the ratio to a different setting when burning softwood versus hardwood.

Energy Harvesters allowed variable primary / secondary adjustment back in the '80s. It worked, but people complained it required too much adjusting.

"Adjusting the air flow regulator helps provide proper combustion. The particular adjustment of the doors depends upon the draft of the particular chimney to which the stove then exhausts. Start by setting the secondary air regulator at about 1/2 to 1/4 the opening of the primary regulator (except for start-ups). Then make gradual adjustments until the optimum setting for the specific situation. Turn the regulator knob counterclockwise to loosen the regulators for adjustment. This knob should be kept tightened sufficiently to allow some resistance when the regulators are moved to prevent their slipping. Use removable knob to adjust regulators when warm. Set the bottom regulator first, and then adjust the top one. Once this tension has been set, there should be no need to adjust it more than once or twice a season. For overnight build a briskly burning fire to create about one to two inches of hot coals in the bottom. Then fill the stove, close the door. Adjust the secondary air full closed. Adjust the primary air to between 0 and 10% open. These adjustments may be varied for a particular installation."

http://www.freepatentsonline.com/4407265.html
http://www.freepatentsonline.com/4407265.pdf

From what I have seen and read I would agree with that statement. I feel the manufacturers have tried to over simplify the controls or remove the air controls altogether.

See above air control instructions for '80s stove that's often credited with being a very early attempt at secondary burner with high efficiency. Single point control is more popular as most people don't want to "fiddle" with their wood stove.

 

[woodchuck357]

If I have a lot of coals, it is usually after work, I sift with homemade tool, leave door wide open for a couple hours, heat pours out of stove and burns down good. Throw some kindling with a couple strips of paper, more wood over the rest of coals and come back ten minutes later and close door. Stir minimal coals in AM when wake up, throw 4-6 chunks of pine kindling with a few strips of paper, load wood, leave door open for 10 minutes, close door and go to work.

I don't remember as a kid having the old Fisher's or Woodland's holding coals that long.......good or bad I don't know, was a kid.

Although, if I have coals, pine kindling and a couple strips of newspaper and ten minutes I have a great fire. Starts a lot faster than a cold start. Stove usually burns 24/7

Works for me, I like fire and don't mind checking on it.....

A grate would seem like a PITA to me.....Mine has secondaries but is far from an Elitist, it was on sale for $300, marked down from $1100 or so.......I don't allow any commie bastards in my house...

I will say it again, ANY stove that needs the door open for any reason except to put wood in is a poor design.

 

[Cerran]

From what I have seen and read I would agree with that statement. I feel the manufacturers have tried to over simplify the controls or remove the air controls altogether. This would allow them to get the EPA certifications or/and make an excellent sales pitch to those not in the know about how 'easy " it is to run. No controls to mess with and so on. When a person buys it and his climate circumstances (polar vortex) reach the outer limits of the stove the provisions, we used to be able to make adjustments and be able to make it work through the cold spells. That ability, it seems, has been removed on most choices now. I see this as an undesirable intrusion in our daily life which I don't feel is warranted or necessary in most cases.

I will concede in some areas of the country, due to the topography, there are times any additional pollution can be deemed as not only unwanted but harmful to some. Most of America doesn't fall under that category and I don't subscribe to the global warming ideas. Consequently those engineering and regulatory constraints placed on burner manufacturers are intrusive and take away our rights as consumers to buy what we want and tailor it to fit our needs.

And that I feel, is where we differ . But that's okay, probably nothing either you or I, do or say, will change any of it..

And the Cat issue isn't clear cut. I was told by a manufacturer that they need to be tested periodically and are expected to last approximately 5 seasons before they would need to be replaced. Estimated cost is 500.00 for a stove similar in size to what you would probably run.

Actually you get get a Cat for around $160-200 and the people I know who have Blaze kings generally get about 6-8 seasons out of their cat.

It seems like stove setting should be able to be adjusedt at least by the stove shop for various wood types. Like I said, I do notice a much longer coaling stage on Hardwoods than on my softwoods which would need more primary air to burn down at the primary air inlet and less air to the secondaries.

 

[Cerran]

I will say it again, ANY stove that needs the door open for any reason except to put wood in is a poor design.

Or startup. My stove won't draft from dead cold with the door closed.

 

[Chris-PA]

Energy Harvesters allowed variable primary / secondary adjustment back in the '80s. It worked, but people complained it required too much adjusting.

I'll be thought of as arrogant, but sadly most people seem to be unable to comprehend how much of anything works. Look at all the automatic stuff in cars - the defrosters must turn on the AC automatically, because how many understand the concept the water will condense out on cold surfaces under some conditions. Drivers would be unable to figure out what to do, even though that little button to turn on the AC and/or to change to recirculate is right there. So those of us who don't want to waste the energy to run the AC all the time the defrosters are on are out of luck.

I simply know too many people who would not be able to figure out what to do with a couple of air holes in a steel box with a fire in it. Our education system has failed, and we spend too much time in the virtual world rather than experiencing how things work in the real world.

 

[Del_]

Actually you get get a Cat for around $160-200 and the people I know who have Blaze kings generally get about 6-8 seasons out of their cat.

It seems like stove setting should be able to be adjusedt at least by the stove shop for various wood types. Like I said, I do notice a much longer coaling stage on Hardwoods than on my softwoods which would need more primary air to burn down at the primary air inlet and less air to the secondaries.

I had my Jotul F600CB set up to adjust secondary combustion air. It did allow for more heat output from a bed of coals but I took the modification off about six years ago because I just don't need it. I'm sure efficiency went up a tad, too, minus extra air just entering the air box and going up the flue without interacting with the coal bed.

 

[Cerran]

I'll be thought of as arrogant, but sadly most people seem to be unable to comprehend how much of anything works. Look at all the automatic stuff in cars - the defrosters must turn on the AC automatically, because how many understand the concept the water will condense out on cold surfaces under some conditions. Drivers would be unable to figure out what to do, even though that little button to turn on the AC and/or to change to recirculate is right there. So those of us who don't want to waste the energy to run the AC all the time the defrosters are on are out of luck.

I simply know too many people who would not be able to figure out what to do with a couple of air holes in a steel box with a fire in it. Our education system has failed, and we spend too much time in the virtual world rather than experiencing how things work in the real world.

Given how many people I've helped set up wood stoves and had to explain that the wood they just got delivered two weeks ago was not "seasoned" that sounds about right. People just don't want to put any effort into understanding their situation these days.

 

[1project2many]

Look at all the automatic stuff in cars

You don't have to tell me. Not only are there too many automatic devices, but too many devices communicate with each other when there's no need for it.

Our education system has failed, and we spend too much time in the virtual world rather than experiencing how things work in the real world.

I also agree, but any in depth replies are likely to get this thread dragged to off-topic land.