MS200T clutch side crank seal question

[Dan Forsh]

Totally know where you are coming from. We have a old Victorian place with a separate brick wash house, ideally this is my workshop but I've the same problem, roof leaks like a sieve and needs replacing. Currently I'm working from here:

But I think I've just about worn out my welcome, plus the wife wants her dining room table back.

 

[MattG]

Totally know where you are coming from. We have a old Victorian place with a separate brick wash house, ideally this is my workshop but I've the same problem, roof leaks like a sieve and needs replacing. Currently I'm working from here:

But I think I've just about worn out my welcome, plus the wife wants her dining room table back.

Woo! I like your style there, Dan! Not sure, what you wife's complaining about - you can't beat that for an ice-breaker at dinner parties...

Our garage, was built in the late nineties, so the roof's not asbestos, instead it's this rubbishy corrugated concrete. Over time it's cracked, and I can't silicone bodge it quickly enough. We found a firm to replace it with a sort of steel-type covering. They do it in a single day, from inside mainly, and you don't have to remove your racks etc..

I did the ms200t work mainly in the house. I rigged up a "rather low bench" with 2 old milk crates and old cupboard door! Not great. And the odd visit to the garage e.g. to carb cleaner stuff or wash casings etc.

 

[lone wolf]

Woo! I like your style there, Dan! Not sure, what you wife's complaining about - you can't beat that for an ice-breaker at dinner parties...

Our garage, was built in the late nineties, so the roof's not asbestos, instead it's this rubbishy corrugated concrete. Over time it's cracked, and I can't silicone bodge it quickly enough. We found a firm to replace it with a sort of steel-type covering. They do it in a single day, from inside mainly, and you don't have to remove your racks etc..

I did the ms200t work mainly in the house. I rigged up a "rather low bench" with 2 old milk crates and old cupboard door! Not great. And the odd visit to the garage e.g. to carb cleaner stuff or wash casings etc.

So the saw isn't running right or what is happening?

 

[MattG]

So the saw isn't running right or what is happening?

It seems to be starting better without leaning out. But I don't think it's quite right. I ran it in the wood for 20 minutes, did some cutting, but then it seemed to go kinda lean (maybe?) mid-way through the revs and I ended up play with the L + idle screw a bit before it seemed be ok.

Since I have a ms211 I bought from new a year+half ago which is now nicely run in, I know how it should run/idle etc. and it (the ms200t) still does not seem right.

So, like I said, when the garage is done (August) I'll mityvac test everything PROPERLY this time. (I'll probably still play with the saw now and again, before then)

I'm guessing the saw still leaks somewhere. But I want to do the whole thing right this time.

 

[lone wolf]

It seems to be starting better without leaning out. But I don't think it's quite right. I ran it in the wood for 20 minutes, did some cutting, but then it seemed to go kinda lean (maybe?) mid-way through the revs and I ended up play with the L + idle screw a bit before it seemed be ok.

Since I have a ms211 I bought from new a year+half ago which is now nicely run in, I know how it should run/idle etc. and it (the ms200t) still does not seem right.

So, like I said, when the garage is done (August) I'll mityvac test everything PROPERLY this time. (I'll probably still play with the saw now and again, before then)

I'm guessing the saw still leaks somewhere. But I want to do the whole thing right this time.

Pressure vac test.

 

[MattG]

So the saw isn't running right or what is happening?

I'm sure that your acc pump block off, which I did right I think, certainly didn't make it any worse, though.

Pressure vac test.

Yeah, I know, man. I'm gonna do it properly this next time! I'll be heart-broken if it's the crankseals, since I spent a long while, they went up the shaft very smoothly, and to be honest they looked fine in the casings (no cracks or nothing, dead flush). But yeah, hopefully I'll know in August if they're wrong. And definitely post to AS to let you folks know what's happening. If not before...

 

[lone wolf]

I'm sure that your acc pump block off, which I did right I think, certainly didn't make it any worse, though.


Yeah, I know, man. I'm gonna do it properly this next time! I'll be heart-broken if it's the crankseals, since I spent a long while, they went up the shaft very smoothly, and to be honest they looked fine in the casings (no cracks or nothing, dead flush). But yeah, hopefully I'll know in August if they're wrong. And definitely post to AS to let you folks know what's happening. If not before...

Best get extra seals in stock.

 

[MattG]

Best get extra seals in stock.

Ha! You doubt my workmanship?

 

[lone wolf]

Ha! You doubt my workmanship?

Fortune favors the prepared. Them seals can be tricky. Remember vac and pressure test it.Failed vac and good pressure indicates a leaky crank seal usually.

 

[MattG]

Fortune favors the prepared. Them seals can be tricky. Remember vac and pressure test it.Failed vac and good pressure indicates a leaky crank seal usually.

Well, to be honest, I've still got 2 rubber ones. I had them as backup before, when I did the bakelites, you know, the ones that I didn't manage to crack! So when I finally pressure/vac test the right way, I should be good with them.

 

[MattG]

Ok, I've not posted for a month or so. July was pretty busy, we went up to the Lake District on a hill walking holiday - which was awesome!

I've got some more workshop tools (air compressor + pillar drill) and in late August we get the leaky garage roof fixed (hopefully!). The company that's doing it, work from above, and get the whole job complete in a day, so we don't need to remove too much stuff first.

So hopefully, very late August, I might start to strip the Ms200 to do a pressure and vac test on it.

On the positive side, I did actually use the Ms200 a little bit yesterday. Basically I was levelling off a big yew hedge in our front garden. Some of it was too thick for the trimmer, so I ran the little chainsaw. Although, the work was very light, it seemed to start, idle and run fairly well. Off and on I guess it got used for a couple of hours. What I would say though is it was very thirsty... probably used as much fuel as the trimmer, but did a lot less work, I guess. Anyway we'll check her over again soon..

 

[MattG]

Hi Folks,

I finally got around to doing a pressure vac test on my ms200 after the rebuild. Although the rebuild seemed to go ok in my opinion, after finally being patient enough to do the crank seals properly - a slight intermittent problem remains. That being that sometimes when it is cold started, after the cough on full choke, when you pull it over on half-choke/fast-idle it screams then dies as if fuel starved. It then starts ok if you repeat the cold start procedure, i.e. give it full choke, then half choke. Some folks at AS said it could be an air leak or a bad carb - but that I needed to vac pressure test it now to be sure. Here goes....

[album=medium]1612[/album]

Hopefully the album above shows my procedure. I made an exhaust blocker with bits of inner tube rubber, an ally plate and a couple of spacers, and I got a rubber bung from a brewing/education supplier that I forced into the intake boot. A certain amount of confusion then ensued since my STIHL manual gives the pressures in bar, but the mityvac gauge I used has units of inch/hg for vacuum and PSI for positive pressure. I had to do some conversions, so for vacuum the manual says apply 0.5 bar (~ 15"hg) and this should not drop to below 0.3 bar (~ 9"hg) in 20 seconds.

Well I applied 15"hg of vacuum and it took about 6-7 minutes for the vacuum to fall to 13"hg. I think this means that the seals are good.

For positive pressure, the manual says apply 0.5 bar (~7 psi) and this pressure reading should remain for at least 20 seconds. This was the case. It took about 6 minutes for the pressure to fall to 6 psi.

I'm assuming that the test results above must mean that my engine is good as far as the seals and air tightness are concerned? And that any remaining problems (the fuel starve on half choke issue) must be fuel/carb related?

 

[lone wolf]

Hi Folks,

I finally got around to doing a pressure vac test on my ms200 after the rebuild. Although the rebuild seemed to go ok in my opinion, after finally being patient enough to do the crank seals properly - a slight intermittent problem remains. That being that sometimes when it is cold started, after the cough on full choke, when you pull it over on half-choke/fast-idle it screams then dies as if fuel starved. It then starts ok if you repeat the cold start procedure, i.e. give it full choke, then half choke. Some folks at AS said it could be an air leak or a bad carb - but that I needed to vac pressure test it now to be sure. Here goes....

[album=medium]1612[/album]

Hopefully the album above shows my procedure. I made an exhaust blocker with bits of inner tube rubber, an ally plate and a couple of spacers, and I got a rubber bung from a brewing/education supplier that I forced into the intake boot. A certain amount of confusion then ensued since my STIHL manual gives the pressures in bar, but the mityvac gauge I used has units of inch/hg for vacuum and PSI for positive pressure. I had to do some conversions, so for vacuum the manual says apply 0.5 bar (~ 15"hg) and this should not drop to below 0.3 bar (~ 9"hg) in 20 seconds.

Well I applied 15"hg of vacuum and it took about 6-7 minutes for the vacuum to fall to 13"hg. I think this means that the seals are good.

For positive pressure, the manual says apply 0.5 bar (~7 psi) and this pressure reading should remain for at least 20 seconds. This was the case. It took about 6 minutes for the pressure to fall to 6 psi.

I'm assuming that the test results above must mean that my engine is good as far as the seals and air tightness are concerned? And that any remaining problems (the fuel starve on half choke issue) must be fuel/carb related?

Well you should wobble the crank ends while testing to see if the bearings give way and make a leak also, but it sounds pretty good so far ,yes it passed those tests. did you connect the impulse line to the left underside of the air filter box area? IF so did you try more fuel by turning the Low jet out a little? If you tried that then the carb is likely to be the problem. Now is it a carb that has the accelerator pump? Here is a pic of how to tell. If it has the plug the green arrow points to it is. That could be fixed possible if its not this carb get another.

 

[MattG]

Well you should wobble the crank ends while testing to see if the bearings give way and make a leak also, but it sounds pretty good so far ,yes it passed those tests. did you connect the impulse line to the left underside of the air filter box area? IF so did you try more fuel by turning the Low jet out a little? If you tried that then the carb is likely to be the problem. Now is it a carb that has the accelerator pump? Here is a pic of how to tell. If it has the plug the green arrow points to it is. That could be fixed possible if its not this carb get another.

Hi Lone Wolf!

I'll try that crank end wobble trick later, but I did move the crank in between tests, cos I forgot that you (manual says!) meant to have it at TDC.

And yes, when I ran the saw I always made sure the (new) impulse line was connected to the air box and crankcase good.

And yes, I ended up with the L screw to 1+3/4 turns (i.e. 3/4 richer than stock) to make it run nice.

Otherwise the saw seems to run ok-ish.

And yeah! the carb is the acc pump type - with your earlier advice - a few months back I already plugged it up with JB weld! I guess you just forgot

I guess I may get another carb for it some day. I think I saw some people on AS mention an older model carb (from the 020) might work? Do you know anything about that?

Anyway, hope it's ok out in the states right now, it's rainy and horrid here in uk, and I have a car to reassemble too!!

Matt

 

[lone wolf]

Hi Lone Wolf!

I'll try that crank end wobble trick later, but I did move the crank in between tests, cos I forgot that you (manual says!) meant to have it at TDC.

And yes, when I ran the saw I always made sure the (new) impulse line was connected to the air box and crankcase good.

And yes, I ended up with the L screw to 1+3/4 turns (i.e. 3/4 richer than stock) to make it run nice.

Otherwise the saw seems to run ok-ish.

And yeah! the carb is the acc pump type - with your earlier advice - a few months back I already plugged it up with JB weld! I guess you just forgot

I guess I may get another carb for it some day. I think I saw some people on AS mention an older model carb (from the 020) might work? Do you know anything about that?

Anyway, hope it's ok out in the states right now, it's rainy and horrid here in uk, and I have a car to reassemble too!!

Matt

Definitive Dave on here can get you a Chinese carb cheap if you are interested?

 

[big t double]

the old 020 carb is the c1q-s32...pn 1129 120 0650. they will work but aren't cheap though.

 

[MattG]

Definitive Dave on here can get you a Chinese carb cheap if you are interested?

Hey man, just back from garage - I tried wobbling the crank and moving it about - vac still good! guess it's defo the carb...

I'll prob give the cheap carb a miss but thanks anyway!

 

[MattG]

the old 020 carb is the c1q-s32...pn 1129 120 0650. they will work but aren't cheap though.

Thanks for that one - big t

I'll probably enquire at some stage in future. No hurry, though. Guess I need to get back to fixing that car, now

Anyway - least I know my crank seal work was ok - eventually....

 

[MattG]

Looking at the carb's schematic in my manual, I guess that eventually the body must wear at the point where the throttle spindle enters, and probably let some air just here.

 

[lone wolf]

Looking at the carb's schematic in my manual, I guess that eventually the body must wear at the point where the throttle spindle enters, and probably let some air just here.

Did you pressure test the carb at the fuel inlet pipe?