Why spurless utility Sucks

[ropensaddle]

You missed the point anyway of staying out of the path of least resistance

 

[ropensaddle]

That is what I was afraid of, climbing a tree with the primary touching it. Full on retarded, full on lunacy. Feel less current? You are insane. Trees touching need a line kill, that is denergized and grounded. Or if you can do it from an insulated bucket truck. Please tell me you are joking around. Anyone else here, for real now, if its touching or even close, (like within 3' of a 12kv line for example) do not climb it.

The less current part is put there as it is possible but
I have never felt anything when I was above the burning
limb and by burning I don't mean at the time just to clear it up!
I have pulled fifteen foot over hang one foot in diameter and
near minimum approach distance I don't recommend it but a
seasoned line clearance pro can do it! I am sorry if you are not.

 

[clearance]

Clearance you are a hoot
as back then they would laugh you off the job if you refused to do your job, a hot tree is one that has been burning not touching but can be safely trimmed! I have more experience in my left pinky than You will obtain and even though shutting power down would be safer, it will not be done as customers being out of power for days not gonna happen. Getting a bucket on the sides of mountains not possible!

Burning not touching, so it has burned away, if under the primary or above it, only inches away. Do you even know the meaning of the phrase "limit of approach"? I think not. Laughed of the job, ok, anyone who asked you to climb those kind of trees would be disciplined and thier company possibly fined, here, anyways. Customers without power for days? Why? I had four line kills on the last contract I was working on, in a month. No big deal, no more than a few hours for the worst one and about 15 minutes for the easiest one. More experience in your left pinky, don't you mean finger, Liberace has pinkies. I wonder about you, but then you are going to heaven if you get cooked, so its all good. For anyone else out there, be smart, educate yourself.

 

[ropensaddle]

Burning not touching, so it has burned away, if under the primary or above it, only inches away. Do you even know the meaning of the phrase "limit of approach"? I think not. Laughed of the job, ok, anyone who asked you to climb those kind of trees would be disciplined and thier company possibly fined, here, anyways. Customers without power for days? Why? I had four line kills on the last contract I was working on, in a month. No big deal, no more than a few hours for the worst one and about 15 minutes for the easiest one. More experience in your left pinky, don't you mean finger, Liberace has pinkies. I wonder about you, but then you are going to heaven if you get cooked, so its all good. For anyone else out there, be smart, educate yourself.

clear again so maybe you can understand miles of line not one little tree or is that too much for you to understand? The term we used was minimum separation means the same I ask you do you know? I know you have a job and understanding of power but limited experience I do hope you stick with the place you work as you could not handle real clearance with a know it all attitude. I hope the best for you and was just trying to get you to understand that being above has a definate advantage if a contact with a limb does occur as it keeps you out of the path of least resistance! Again best wishes on your job and I have no hate of line clearance personal so be safe!

 

[ropensaddle]

I suppose you think approach is the limb?
It means not getting your body closer than
the minimum separation of the specified voltage!
Also If you can safely perform work at a greater
distance it is desired are you quizzing or do you
actually think minimum approach means the tree branch
can't be closer than specified distance? Heck, dern near every
tree we trimmed was you had better stay at the candy
factory cause you would not make it here! I am not saying
it would not be better to have power isolated it is
just not necessary unless tree is actually on line
now that would be different as in uprooted and on the
line yeah you would be suicidal to climb that but that
is nowhere near anything I have said. Another time an isolation
may be necessary is if the trunk was within the limits in
that it put the climber closer than the minimum separation!
I think you are mistaken or uninformed on this topic.

 

[clearance]

Limits of appraoch are the relationship between the primary and you, the tools you are using and the vegetations proximety to that line. I am not familiar with the voltages you work around, here it ranges from 12 to 500kv, the limits of appraoch for each voltage varies. We use three tables A, B and C. A is for a tested and insulated tool, B is your body, uninsulated tools and vegetation, C is for uncertified workers. On a 12kv line this table is like this A-1', B-3', C-10'. So, if the branches are closer than 3' to the primary, it cannot be climbed, you could however reach over from another tree with a tested pole pruner. As the voltage increases, so do the limits, example, a 60kv line, A-3', B-5', C-10'. What sort of rules or standards do you use in your area?

 

[ropensaddle]

Limits of appraoch are the relationship between the primary and you, the tools you are using and the vegetations proximety to that line. I am not familiar with the voltages you work around, here it ranges from 12 to 500kv, the limits of appraoch for each voltage varies. We use three tables A, B and C. A is for a tested and insulated tool, B is your body, uninsulated tools and vegetation, C is for uncertified workers. On a 12kv line this table is like this A-1', B-3', C-10'. So, if the branches are closer than 3' to the primary, it cannot be climbed, you could however reach over from another tree with a tested pole pruner. As the voltage increases, so do the limits, example, a 60kv line, A-3', B-5', C-10'. What sort of rules or standards do you use in your area?

They are similar however the vegetation is not in the picture you
and conductive tools is the separation factor what we usually would
do is prune it away from the ground first with a rated pruner in them
days they were wooden have since used hotstick with blade mount
better no splinters kind of a peta pruning that many extensions but
safer than climbing and then pruning but that can be done safe also
especially if the winds not blowing. I would some times throw a rope
up to the crown and tie it with bowline and then pull tree and tie off
to create bigger gap but usually not necessary. The wind blows and line
burns limb away usually a foot or better so 3 inch would be hard to
imagine on any distribution line. Lines higher than distribution running
with static instead of ground are a different story transmission are
different as no ground and static build up can cause arc at great distance.
Path to ground you still have not fully understood that even though you
just mentioned one way of avoiding it by climbing a different tree to
work from, and yes, I have done that as well there are many safe methods
accomplishing safe line clearance. Staying out of the path of least
resistance is one of the most important things to learn as a clearance tech
as not in the path not shocked.

 

[clearance]

They are similar however the vegetation is not in the picture you
and conductive tools is the separation factor what we usually would
do is prune it away from the ground first with a rated pruner in them
days they were wooden have since used hotstick with blade mount
better no splinters kind of a peta pruning that many extensions but
safer than climbing and then pruning but that can be done safe also
especially if the winds not blowing. I would some times throw a rope
up to the crown and tie it with bowline and then pull tree and tie off
to create bigger gap but usually not necessary. The wind blows and line
burns limb away usually a foot or better so 3 inch would be hard to
imagine on any distribution line. Lines higher than distribution running
with static instead of ground are a different story transmission are
different as no ground and static build up can cause arc at great distance.
path to ground you still have not fully understood that even though you
just mentioned one way of avoiding it by climbing a different tree to
work from, and yes, I have done that as well there are many safe methods
accomplishing safe line clearance. Staying out of the path of least
resistance is one of the most important things to learn as a clearance tech
as not in the path not shocked.

1' away aint 3' away and the tree can move closer because of the wind and body wieght. So, no thanks. You keep saying I don't understand, but your misunderstanding or ignorance in regards to how power gets to ground is shocking (ha, ha). Power takes all paths to ground, not just the easiest. "Vegetation is not in the picture" for you, I guess, not for me, seeing how it is conductive and all. You speak with confidence in quite a condescending manner, just what are your qualifications to speak to this subject?

 

[ropensaddle]

One more time as you still don't get it miles of burning line
not a tree here or there miles so If you climb another tree to work
from It is just as bad most times, but we use the safest option
we have. We have a billion times more lines and they don't get
trimmed soon enough even with giraffe's we stay behind especially
in manual only areas where no equipment can get to, where I was
a foreman many years with not one accident other than scratches.
The thing I learned that protected me in that was not to be in the
path of least resistance. Transmission was very different and vegetation
proximity a bigger factor due to arc but at least those lines were not
allowed to get close and was mainly setting ropes and felling and it
was fun huge trees fell to prevent passing within fifteen feet or hitting
on a 500 kv line in Michigan.,

 

[ropensaddle]

1' away aint 3' away and the tree can move closer because of the wind and body wieght. So, no thanks. You keep saying I don't understand, but your misunderstanding or ignorance in regards to how power gets to ground is shocking (ha, ha). Power takes all paths to ground, not just the easiest. "Vegetation is not in the picture" for you, I guess, not for me, seeing how it is conductive and all. You speak with confidence in quite a condescending manner, just what are your qualifications to speak to this subject?

Is that claire I am sorry but turning off a town for a week
was not an option where I worked you keep reading them books boy and
maybe some day no one will have power
Ok you say I am ignorant on how power gets to ground
and that it takes all paths the thing you are not
getting is the one it takes is going to be the easiest
so if the limb your standing on is energized you are in the
path of least resistance and experiencing indirect contact!
I have been a foreman for line clearance for over twenty years
and yes I still learn the last 13 were as a danger tree expert
for the local coop removing danger trees dead burning and
anything that was problematic. I run a manual crew before that
never me or anyone under me accident numerous safety awards

 

[clearance]

Is that claire I am sorry but turning off a town for a week
was not an option where I worked you keep reading them books boy and
maybe some day no one will have power

I said in an earlier post about the contract I just finished working on, four line kills, the longest being a few hours. Your comprehension is on par with your understanding of electrical safety. "We have a billion times more lines", not so good at math either. Does your state have transmission lines that run for over 500 miles?, we do. "The path of least resistance" Good Lord.

 

[ropensaddle]

I said in an earlier post about the contract I just finished working on, four line kills, the longest being a few hours. Your comprehension is on par with your understanding of electrical safety. "We have a billion times more lines", not so good at math either. Does your state have transmission lines that run for over 500 miles?, we do. "The path of least resistance" Good Lord.

Like I said earlier that would not be an option
on miles of burning line can you trim miles in two hours I don,t think so, and I was talking nation wide One coop has 500 miles of transmission so keep that in mind and my understanding of electrical safety has kept me and all working around me safe with awards to prove it.

 

[ropensaddle]

clearance question if you are on a limb above the limb you are taking
out and the limb under the limb you are on becomes energized do you think you will be shocked?

 

[clearance]

Don't even speak of burning trees on transmission lines. Miles of burning on distribution? Here it only the rare tree, maybe one in a thousand. Your utility must be incredibly incompetent and criminally negligent for there to be "miles of burning line". I have trimmed and removed burners out of the bucket, or climbed them with a line kill, thats the rules here, thats what I do. This climbing burning trees B.S. makes the arguements over one-handing and one tie in seem pretty small. I would like to hear from a lineman about this, I just know electrical safety in regards to treework.

 

[clearance]

clearance question if you are on a limb above the limb you are taking
out and the limb under the limb you are on becomes energized do you think you will be shocked?

Its not good enough to "think", you have to know. Electricity is a strange and powerfull beast, best not mess with it. Some people have been killed by 120 volts, others have survived flash overs from 230 000 volts. Be safe, be smart, follow the rules and you will be o.k. My answer is maybe, not good enough, kind of like, if you are shot in the shoulder with a 9mm, will you survive? Probably you will, care to find out?

 

[ropensaddle]

Don't even speak of burning trees on transmission lines. Miles of burning on distribution? Here it only the rare tree, maybe one in a thousand. Your utility must be incredibly incompetent and criminally negligent for there to be "miles of burning line". I have trimmed and removed burners out of the bucket, or climbed them with a line kill, thats the rules here, thats what I do. This climbing burning trees B.S. makes the arguements over one-handing and one tie in seem pretty small. I would like to hear from a lineman about this, I just know electrical safety in regards to treework.

This was back in the eighties and still some lines that way but I think If shutting the power off and grounding is the way you do clearance you will be safe the problem is no one wants to climb and these lines get skipped and then someone highly trained has to come in and trim but back in early 80s it was skipped due to economy issues they let the lines get bad due to not enough funds jobs were scarce in them days. I would have loved to
see grounded lines but it was not an option if they will kill for ya go for it!

 

[ropensaddle]

Its not good enough to "think", you have to know. Electricity is a strange and powerfull beast, best not mess with it. Some people have been killed by 120 volts, others have survived flash overs from 230 000 volts. Be safe, be smart, follow the rules and you will be o.k. My answer is maybe, not good enough, kind of like, if you are shot in the shoulder with a 9mm, will you survive? Probably you will, care to find out?

Well I do agree it is strange but will take the path of least resistance
to ground you are above the path and out of the current however
rain would be different and windy days we kept for the berry trees even
though they were few. clearance for the most part you are knowledgeable
and have good ideas especially for new guy's you are probably one of the
best climbers in your area at line clearance. I am not trying to put you down and even side with you on some things, spurs being one of them! However I tried not to use them in yards but some climbers really make a tree look bad the way they spur and others can be gentle.

 

[clearance]

Hey Rope, you take it easy and take care of yourself, look up and live.
Cheers, Jim

 

[lxt]

ropensaddle, I know exactly what you are talking about!!! I remember climbing up between the phases after putting a pull rope on the nuetral & hot(2 different ropes of course) to seperate them so I could get above the wires & blow the top out over them(usually the nuetral side)

A LINE KILL!!!! man I wish I could of got one of those, back when rope was talking late 80`s if you didnt do it......GO HOME! of course this was distribution 4kv, the joke was it will only bite ya!!!

clearance, I totally agree with you on how it should be done, however realistically that dont always happen, depends on the utility inspector!!!

Take Care, Be Safe

LXT............

 

[046]

many thanks for this important lesson and the importance of not becoming part of path of least resistance!

Is that claire I am sorry but turning off a town for a week
was not an option where I worked you keep reading them books boy and
maybe some day no one will have power
Ok you say I am ignorant on how power gets to ground
and that it takes all paths the thing you are not
getting is the one it takes is going to be the easiest
so if the limb your standing on is energized you are in the
path of least resistance and experiencing indirect contact!
I have been a foreman for line clearance for over twenty years
and yes I still learn the last 13 were as a danger tree expert
for the local coop removing danger trees dead burning and
anything that was problematic. I run a manual crew before that
never me or anyone under me accident numerous safety awards