036 piston/clinder advice

[frb918]

I have a 036 with a scored piston that I would like to fix up. After trearing it down it looks like it has a aftermarket piston. I have read as much as I can find on here about trying to save the cylinder. There is some light streaking above and below the exaust port that I can barely feel with my fingernail. I plan to try to use the acid process I read about on here.
My questions are the the following;
1. Do I have to hone the bore with a ball hone or is hand sanding with 320 grit ok?
2. Can I use a used Stihl piston and rings(ebay) or should I buy a new aftermarket($28 Baileys) or new Stihl(?? $$-probably expensive)? I can't find any aftermarket piston/cylinder kits either.
3. Can I safely eliminate the base gasket and use Yamabond to seal without checking the squish height?
4, Does Stihl make a dual port muffler for this? If not how do I open up the muffler?
I bought this saw last spring (it is super clean - I paid $325)and the guy said he had just replaced the piston but the cylinder was ok. I did not run it much until last week and have only run 5 or 6 tanks of gas thru it . When I pulled the muffler I saw the scoring on the piston. It still runs Ok but is hard to start(20 plus pulls cold).
Thanks in advance for any help you can provide.

Fritz

 

[2000ssm6]

Ummm, sh**, where to start.

1. the ball hone will give a uniform cross hatch, needed for a proper ring seal.

2. I'm not much on aftermarket, they are more expensive but oem Stihl is what I use. Atleast get oem rings and clips, a used oem piston will be ok if it's in good shape.

3. Measure squish before jerking the gasket out and "wondering" if it will hit....

4. No oem dp cover for the 036, but its front cover is easy to modify. I like to put a husky deflector on the back half of the muffler to keep the spark screen. More work and that deflector is about $13. Pics coming.....


If the cylinder is scored, you can use muratic acid on a q tip to get it out, be carefull and only apply it to the scored areas to remove the aluminum.

 

[2000ssm6]

This is a 026 muffler and doesn't have the screen because I wanted to braze it in. The screen can be added without braze and just use the 2 screws to keep it held together. Your 036's muffler is designed the same way. You may find it much easier to braze a pipe in the front cover, if you don't need a screen...

 

[nitro]

036

i'm doing mine now , i didnt trash the jug but it was running funny so after ten years of torture its getting a total rebuild .rings cost 50 bucks for the pair ad the base gasket comes in 2 thicknesses .
just make sure you do the crank seals, fuel line, impulse line ,and intake boot
some things been making it chew up pistons

do it once -do it right:greenchainsaw:

 

[frb918]

200ssm6,
Thanks for the quick reply. I guess I'll quit being so tight and buy the $25 ball hone from Baileys.
Do you have any clue what the OEM piston,pin,rings and clips run ?
I have read how to check the squish with solder thru the spark plug hole when you skip the base gasket. Is the added compression worth the trouble?

Fritz

 

[timberwolf]

It is, but to take full advantage of making that change ports need to be raised back up or you will lose some RPM in gaining the torque. Can be ok if you are heavy handed and run long bars, but most times with reasonable bar and chain set ups it will cut slightly slower when put to the stop watch unless the porting is retouched to make up for the change in squish height.

 

[2000ssm6]

200ssm6,
Thanks for the quick reply. I guess I'll quit being so tight and buy the $25 ball hone from Baileys.
Do you have any clue what the OEM piston,pin,rings and clips run ?
I have read how to check the squish with solder thru the spark plug hole when you skip the base gasket. Is the added compression worth the trouble?

Fritz

Do you have any good local saw techs? They might have the right sized hone and only charge ya a few bucks to do it. Not sure on the piston kit cost I know the 440s and 460s are over $100....

Listen to TW on the squish.......

 

[2000ssm6]

do it once -do it right

Well said but my funds don't usually agree.

 

[frb918]

Thanks to all for the help!
2000ssm6,
The pics for the muffler mod are a big help.
I think I will just enlarge the side ports and not fool with brazing a tube.
No decent shops very close to me. Last time I needed a couple of parts for my 028 it took 10 days for a fuel filter and impulse line.
Any idea where to get muratic acid (Radio Shack?)?
Nitro,
The intake boot looks good and is soft still. I will definitely do the fuel line and impulse. The crank seal might be over my head. I will have to search out info on whats involved to change these. I originally thought that piston might have dragged some carbon down the cyl. wall.
Timberwolf,
I thought about trying to port, but think this it probably beyond my abilities.
I might try the thinner gasket though.

Fritz

 

[Mad Professor]

Thanks to all for the help!
2000ssm6,
The pics for the muffler mod are a big help.
I think I will just enlarge the side ports and not fool with brazing a tube.
No decent shops very close to me. Last time I needed a couple of parts for my 028 it took 10 days for a fuel filter and impulse line.
Any idea where to get muratic acid (Radio Shack?)?
Nitro,
The intake boot looks good and is soft still. I will definitely do the fuel line and impulse. The crank seal might be over my head. I will have to search out info on whats involved to change these. I originally thought that piston might have dragged some carbon down the cyl. wall.
Timberwolf,
I thought about trying to port, but think this it probably beyond my abilities.
I might try the thinner gasket though.

Fritz

Muriatic acid is used to clean things, try a hardware store or farmers supply.

Seals will come with a gasket set. My local dealer will change them out pretty cheap if you bring in a clean stripped down saw.

Check ebay/cheapstihlparts. I picked up two OEM piston assys for < $90 a few months ago, not sure if he has any left???

 

[scootr]

I have heard good things about the Meteor pistons. They can be found on Ebay. If I were you, I would just go to Bailey's site, a sponsor here, and order up their piston and rings. They have a 1 year warrant against defects, around 30 bucks for piston, pin, clips and bearing. Shipping is about $10, but you can add a lot of other stuff and it doesn't go up much.

I hear they have all the bugs worked out, and quality is good.
Those guys are fast too, as long as your part is not back ordered. My .02.

 

[frb918]

Update:
Found the muriatic acid today at TSC and after 3 times it took off the alum. deposits.
Ordered the piston kit and the ball hone from Baileys which I won't see for a week or more. Also ordered the ring compress kit which is backordered.
Yesterday I called a local Stihl dealer that said the Stihl piston/ring is about $125 and the cyinder/piston about $400! NO THANKS.
I guess I will have to get the Stihl clips,impulse line and base gasket.
I am going to try to find a shop tio pressure/vacume test the case to rule that problem out.
Also after much reading here I guess I'll try to polish/port the intake/exaust ports only and leave the transfers alone. And also open up the muffler.
Questions?:
1. Does anyone know the Part # for the thinner 036 base gaskets?
2. Do the Stihl pin retainer clips fit the Baileys pistons?
3. Cheapstihlparts has OEM rings for $20. Should I consider fitting them to the Baileys piston or just use the ones that come in the kit?
4. The piston bearing looks/feels fine but should I replace it also?

Thanks for all the help and patience with a Newbie Hamfisted Saw Butcher!

Fritz

 

[frb918]

Anyone??
I want to try to get my Stihl parts ordered, the dealers around here don't have much in stock.
Thanks,
Fritz

 

[blsnelling]

Update:
Found the muriatic acid today at TSC and after 3 times it took off the alum. deposits.
Ordered the piston kit and the ball hone from Baileys which I won't see for a week or more. Also ordered the ring compress kit which is backordered.
Yesterday I called a local Stihl dealer that said the Stihl piston/ring is about $125 and the cyinder/piston about $400! NO THANKS.
I guess I will have to get the Stihl clips,impulse line and base gasket.
I am going to try to find a shop tio pressure/vacume test the case to rule that problem out.
Also after much reading here I guess I'll try to polish/port the intake/exaust ports only and leave the transfers alone. And also open up the muffler.
Questions?:
1. Does anyone know the Part # for the thinner 036 base gaskets?
2. Do the Stihl pin retainer clips fit the Baileys pistons?
3. Cheapstihlparts has OEM rings for $20. Should I consider fitting them to the Baileys piston or just use the ones that come in the kit?
4. The piston bearing looks/feels fine but should I replace it also?

Thanks for all the help and patience with a Newbie Hamfisted Saw Butcher!

Fritz

1. 1119 029 2301
2. ?
3. They may not be the same size. Just use the ones that come with it.
4. Use the old one.

 

[timberwolf]

Some aftermarket pistons have no clip removal slot as the intent is to use clips with tails, but it is easy to add a slot with a dremil or small file. You can use the clips that come with the piston, there are only a few isolated failures and that was a while ago likley mostly a result of a bad production run. Put the tail up at 12 Oclock.

A base gasket can be made from all sorts of stuff, couple layers of beer can works fine if you want a thin gasket. Trace and cut.

 

[blsnelling]

A base gasket can be made from all sorts of stuff, couple layers of beer can works fine if you want a thin gasket. Trace and cut.

I use the paper/cardboard from a 24 pack. Mountain Dew works best It's right at .019" uncompressed. Metal will hold a torque better though.

 

[frb918]

Brad,
Thanks for the quick reply.
I'll probably try the Stihl clips to see if they fit. I read on here somewhere to use them, but then in another post I read about some aftermarket pistons taking a different size.

Fritz

 

[blsnelling]

What ever clips you use, just make sure they snap into the slot nicely. Make sure they do not bend. Obviously they have to flex to install them, just make sure they don't actually bend during installation.

 

[timberwolf]

With the clips too when matching different parts together it is good idea to make sure they arn't too thin and when expanded into the groove don't let the piston pin slide out.

But if you are waiting for the clips special order from the dealer I would not worry about using aftermarket clips, even grind the tails off if you are real worried about it.

 

[frb918]

One last question?

If I go the beer can/cardboard gasket route do I also smear it with Yamabond/Dirko.

I worked on smoothing up the ports last night. I still need to polish them with the cloth/felt wheels. I hope this and openning up the muffler give me a noticable power gain.

Thanks again to all,
Fritz