100 octane gas will "burn up" saw???

[flyboy]

100LL is about $5/gallon in NH. Chainsaws take so little fuel that saving $2 per gallon is not worth it for me. I am just a casual user though. My saws may sit for a few months at a time and then get used for 2 days straight.

 

[Hddnis]

I have not tried any fancy fuels. Some of my saws are hitting 2-3 gallons of fuel per day per saw. I tried running premium and the saws did not seem to like it. The bigger ones, 880's, 066's, 044's were ok. The little ones really idled rough. I played around with a couple of the 192's and was able to tune them to run almost as good.

I decided in the end that since we didn't have any trouble with 89 octane pump gas the trouble and expense of switching wasn't worth it. We spend enough on mix as it is running the Stihl HP Ultra oil.



Mr. HE

 

[blsnelling]

I believe 89 meets Stihls requirements, so why not. Sounds like it's working for ya.

 

[Hddnis]

I believe 89 meets Stihls requirements, so why not. Sounds like it's working for ya.

That was my thinking. At the end of the day if I saved $36.00 on fuel that money goes right into my pocket. I don't like to be cheap; I do like to baby my tools, but they seemed to like the cheaper stuff better. We have yet to lose a saw to fuel issues.

Plus, I really hate being 110 feet up on a spar fighting to keep the 361 running. lol



Mr. HE

 

[flyboy]

That was my thinking. At the end of the day if I saved $36.00 on fuel that money goes right into my pocket. I don't like to be cheap; I do like to baby my tools, but they seemed to like the cheaper stuff better. We have yet to lose a saw to fuel issues.

Plus, I really hate being 110 feet up on a spar fighting to keep the 361 running. lol



Mr. HE

I use pump gas on my equipment that gets used weekly. The Exmark Metro Commercial 48 (that's a long name for a mower), Stihl KM90R, Homelite Trimmer, and Stihl BR400 blower all get 93 octane. The gas gets used up before it goes bad.

The 2 Stihl 031s (30+ year old saws) that only get used every couple of months, get the 100LL. They run great on them. I have not tried pump gas after the complete rebuilds though.

 

[t613]

10 years of wet storage of three chainsaws with Stihl orange/white bottle oil and cam2 or VP race gas (for no ethanol reasons). Saws always start right up, no fuel issues ever. Smell good too! Motors are clean and happy internally.

I use less than a gallon per 2 months, so money isn't as big a deal as it is to higher hour users. No ethanol for $8/gallon sounds good to me.

Good luck with your wise decision!

Tim

 

[Hddnis]

Don't get me wrong, I can certainly see where lower use or periods of storage would change what is needed from a fuel.

I can even see on big saws with long bars buried in big wood a nice custom fuel blend would be a really nice thing. Maybe keep a can on the trucks for those situations. Anything that runs cooler, smells better, and gives more power would be a really good thing as long as it penciled out. It may even be fun if it didn't pencil out. lol



Mr. HE

 

[056kid]

I have found 100LL to make my saws run slower and have had this confirmed by another engine builder respected here by most everyone. I'm not going to pretend to know more than I do here, but I'll take a stab at it.

High compression engines require the higher octane or burn up the engine due to pre-ignition. The high octane fuel is not making this power, it's just allowing the engine to run as it should without damage. Your typical stock or woods ported saw does not need this octane. Higher octane fuel burns cooler and slower. Your saw doesn't need this and as a result runs slower.

I've been trying to get that point across for a while..

 

[056kid]

I'd avoid 87 ocatane at all costs. Ruins pro saws relativly quick.

can you prove that?

I know people that have run pro saws for 40+ years and have never had a fuel related failure...

 

[Henry G.]

100ll was not made for chainsaws. So why is it a surprise when it doesn't make you saw run it's optimum?

It wasn't design to run high rpms. The planes that run it turn something like 2500 rpm's. It was design to run with cold air that you get at high elevations Any where from 20 degrees on down.

It's designed to be light. It lacks heavy burners that you see in pump gas. It does this to save weight. You need both heavy and light for saws. Planes don't really need the heavy burners, but need to save as much weight as possible.

So why use it in your saw. It stores well, mixes better with 2 stroke oils, tolerates high compression better, doesn't build up varnish and deposits as fast and is more resistance to knocking and vapor locking.

The key ingredient for the benefits of av gas is lead, but it has about half the lead (if I remember right) than the lead that was in the leaded gas of the past.

If you wanted the best of both worlds than a mixture of av and pump gas would be a better chainsaw gas. Than just plain av gas.

Yes that is what I run in my saws and bikes. AV gas is meant to store for long periods, has no ethanol, and is 100% gas. It however produces slightly less BTU's (energy) and runs richer, cooler. For longevity you want a fuel that stores well, has no ethanol, and has high octane. For power, you want the minimum octane required for the engine and the safest lean mixture you can run. Pump fuel (premium) and AV gas 50/50 is a damn good compromise. Lead is not only an anti knock compound (octane booster) but a lubricant. The reason AV gas smells so good is that burned lead smells sweet. Yes, 100LL is still only approx half the lead they used to use, so as long as youre not drinking it, its fine. 100 octane is the absolute maximum pure gasoline can acheive, adding ethanol or tetraethyl lead is a cheap way to get there. IMO lead is superior to ethanol. Engines that run cool and rich last way longer than than those than run lean and hot. As of yet, I have been unable to detect the minute power loss that supposedly occurs due to running AV gas. The 50/50 mix is the perfect solution to tuning/power issues.

 

[RRSsawshop]

Av gas

100 octane gas is good as long as set up the carb (mixture screws) to run it!!!! Running anything above that (110,120,ect) is just a waste in a saw + if you slow the burn too much it causes other problems like low idle and bad throttle response!!! You can only change the mixture so much with the screws,its not a dirt bike carb with an infinite amount of jets and needles to change!!!

 

[Zombiechopper]

10 years of wet storage of three chainsaws with Stihl orange/white bottle oil and cam2 or VP race gas (for no ethanol reasons). Saws always start right up, no fuel issues ever. Smell good too! Motors are clean and happy internally.

I use less than a gallon per 2 months, so money isn't as big a deal as it is to higher hour users. No ethanol for $8/gallon sounds good to me.

Good luck with your wise decision!

Tim

Which VP blend do you use? I want something with long storage and no ethanol. All I can get here is 87 octane from co-op pumps.....quality varies a lot.

 

[J.W Younger]

contains ethanol on the pump makes me wanna choke the living piss outta a politican. how much does it contain I ask. then I answer my own question, no ####in body knows. up to 10 percent? what happens if it combines with with water which is heavier and sinks ? where do the pumps pick it up? the only way you are gonna know is to test a sample. I think bayles sells a testing kit with instructions. I use a cattle hypodermic. If it test above 10 % i dump it in the truck and go somewhere else. and just because you got good stuff at a place don't mean the next time you will.

 

[Banacanin]

IMO lead is superior to ethanol. Engines that run cool and rich last way longer than than those than run lean and hot. As of yet, I have been unable to detect the minute power loss that supposedly occurs due to running AV gas. The 50/50 mix is the perfect solution to tuning/power issues.[/QUOTE]


I'm a noob, so if I am off base, set me straight

I understand that Ethanol runs lean because a volume of ethanol has considerably less energy than a volume of gasoline
http://www.nafa.org/Template.cfm?Section=Energy_Equivalents,

Wouldn't this indicate that your engine should run cooler as the fuel itself burns cooler?

 

[wigglesworth]

I ran AV all last year. No probs. I just went back to 93 just because im tired of driving to the airport. I cannot tell a difference in idle, power or anything between AV and 93 once the carbs are adjusted. Just my .02

 

[J.W Younger]

IMO lead is superior to ethanol. Engines that run cool and rich last way longer than than those than run lean and hot. As of yet, I have been unable to detect the minute power loss that supposedly occurs due to running AV gas. The 50/50 mix is the perfect solution to tuning/power issues.

I'm a noob, so if I am off base, set me straight

I understand that Ethanol runs lean because a volume of ethanol has considerably less energy than a volume of gasoline
http://www.nafa.org/Template.cfm?Section=Energy_Equivalents,

Wouldn't this indicate that your engine should run cooler as the fuel itself burns cooler?[/QUOTE]
i dont even know where to begin. i have a saw with the fuel filter laying in the tank because the line swelled no prob fuel line 6 bucks. what about the sawdust under the needle, carb kit 10 bucks, no prob. mixture problems are only a small part of the ethanol issue. what we both understand combined more than likely ani't much.

 

[dragrcr]

just use 92 and run it, there is no power gain in higher octain, and if anything it will take power away from you, octane rating is the resistance to burn so to speak, meaning the higher it is the harder and slower it is to get it to burn, without being able to adjust timming advance and base settings, running a higher octane will actually rob you of a little bit of power, run whatever the saw reccomends, if you are racing it and have lots of compression and are worried about pinging and so on then run something better, but most of us have "stock" saws or atleast the buisness end of them are stock, so 92 pump will be fine, and as for the storage thing, i dont trust a gallon of gas in my saw if it has been sitting for more than a month or so, i just go get a gallon if i am running low that way if i dont use it i am not out any large investment, gonna be hard to convince me that i will save money by spending twice what 92 costs for a gallon of gas that stores better.

 

[056kid]

if it takes a month to burn a gallon I wouldn't worry about cost, but when you are going through 5 plus gallons a week, there would be considerable savings in using 87.

if you want to keep a saw running a loong time, keep the filters clean, gas clean, oil mixed right, and carb tuned right, and 87 octane will never let your stock or even mildly modified pro saw down.

IMO...

 

[wigglesworth]

gonna be hard to convince me that i will save money by spending twice what 92 costs for a gallon of gas that stores better.

Its less than .40 a gallon difference here. I would still be using it if the airport were closer.

 

[dragrcr]

Its less than .40 a gallon difference here. I would still be using it if the airport were closer.

are you really gonna save money spending $.40 more a gallon because it stores better? if you dont buy more gas than you need there is no problem, i rarly have gas sitting around and only buy a couple of gallons at a time and when its gone i simply stop at the gas station and get a couple more, pretty easy if you ask me.