101 Question for the non CA carrying tree workers....

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Ok I'll give this a shot- since they are co-dominant each leader is connected to the trunk at roughly 50% strength so even if you remove one the other is still weak and bound to fail.
OR- the weak v- crotch has included bark which can lead to decay which brings me back to my first answer.
OR- because if you remove both leaders you can charge more!
OR- all of the above
 
joezilla11 said:
Ok I'll give this a shot- since they are co-dominant each leader is connected to the trunk at roughly 50% strength so even if you remove one the other is still weak and bound to fail.
OR- the weak v- crotch has included bark which can lead to decay which brings me back to my first answer.
OR- because if you remove both leaders you can charge more!
OR- all of the above
Click to expand...

More to it than that.
 
Yes, I do believe that when there is a codom tree like that with the V crotch right out of th ground it is a result of a sapling being crushed then resprouting and growing from suckers... or watersprouts or whatever you want to call them. Basically a codom can be called "2 trees on one trunk" whereas this situation can be refered to as " 2 trees on one root crown". It is also possible to find to wholly separate trees with each having their own root system growing like that. Sometimes two different kinds of trees as well .Trees can graft into each other's root system and they don't nesessarily have to be the same kind of tree.

Now I do not believe there is any strength in a V crotch whatsoever. I believe these crotches are actually working against each other and that the only thing holding it up is the buttress roots on each side and the tree's own Universal Will To Become.

Cutting just one side out of a tree like this is not out of the question but in most cases it is recomended to get the entire mess removed at one time.
 
Hmmm, I would like to see a close up shot of the first few feet of the trunks. Hard to tell from photo if this is one tree or two. I guess my background is in conifers mostly so maybe my knowledge does not apply in this scenario. In a conifer an obvious seem that continues to ground would point towards seperate trees. No seem= single forked tree... Apples and oranges maybe but that's my two cents. My background is in forest technician work in southwestern Oregon. C.V.S. old growth and wilderness surveys. Enlighten us please.
 
My answer is simple. Looks like a poplar, if you remove the less dom stem to the left the scar will be too large for the tree to cover before decay begins, this tree will never heal in a way that will support and my opinion is that within 5 years will be an issue to the house in picture or more so the house out of picture to the right is that exists.


It could be left, but it would be a liability on anyone who calls there self a pro CA or not.
 
A CA can tell you that there is no protection zone in the area of the two leaders' attachment like there is for a branch attachment. If the branch is cut off correctly, the protection zone will retard decay's attempt to reach the xylem wood. Once the decay is inside the base of the tree, it becomes more dangerous IMO than the leaning leader is.

So it's all or cabling for that job. A property owner can kill his/herself by hiring an unknowing hack. That's why it pays to hire the CA, and it pays to be the CA's that can explain impending dangers like this to the property owners.
 
There is a big red oak in a park I drive by often that was part of a setup like that. The leaner was only removed 26 years ago. I guess no one told the stem that was left that it only had 5 years left!
 
:popcorn:
Know it all gettin schooled
Intent to educate or ridicule...hmmmm

So by your reasoning your either a CA or a worthless hack
Alrighty then.
 
Last edited:
StrataTree said:
:popcorn:
Know it all gettin schooled
Intent to educate or ridicule...hmmmm

So by your reasoning your either a CA or a worthless hack
Alrighty then.
Click to expand...

You might be surprised to know that a good sized portion of the professional arboriculturists world wide frequent arboristsite.com, and quite a few of them would come out and say, "your either a CA or a worthless hack." IMO it's a shame to be in the tree service industry and not have at least one arb cert. With that knowledge and paper to back it up, you can be a lot more help to your company and the public. Everyone is better off. That's not the point of this thread though. I was more interested in the issue of decay in the would be wound on that tree in the pic. Most people wouldn't know that the decay issue is part of the case, and they'd just let the customer have the leaner removed without removing the whole thing. In the construction industry something like that is essentially a death sentence for anyone in the vicinity of their job site. For example the fool builds a bridge, and he doesn't build the columns technically sound. As a result the bridge fails, so that technician is a hack.

The real arborist is half doctor and half architect in a way. Without the botanical knowledge of his field, he makes critically wrong decisions that architecturally will fail on his unaware customers. He is the blight on the public costing people thousands of dollars in unnecessary costs and potentially harming people with his handiwork.
 
Tree&Stump, I think what would help this thread, is a bit of tact in your wording. You come across as if you invented arboriculture and give the impression that non-certified people are hacks. You also give the impression that it is your job to police everyone and educate them because you are so much better than them.

That's some real John Kerry type snobbery.

Maybe your intent is not to sound pompous and self-important, but that's the way it comes across.
 
I don't care if your certified or not there is no one that can tell you accurately how that will react to removing any part of it ...... And BTW this picture has been passed around alot on this site , and honestly it's a woods tree that someone built a fence around and grew grass , and that's that , if someone asked me what would I do with it , the first question is how much do you like it ?
 
What do Arborist and subatomic physics have in common? They both deal in probabilities. I see trees all the time with multiple defects that withstand storm after storm and are still doing fine, and lots of trees that looked perfect and had every advantage, fall over or break when it shouldn't have. A tree with a defect has a higher probability of failing then one that doesn't, but that doesn't mean its going to.
If there is a large tree over a playground, I want to eliminate any probability it might fall on some kids, but lots of people decide to risk a broken roof and play the odds on a tree with a high probability of failing. Rarely can any one say honestly,"this tree will fail with in 5 years," we can say there is a good chance it may fail.
I study the science behind tree failure a lot, as much for self preservation as to being able to give an honest answer to HO who ask me my opinion about a trees health. And the more I learn the more I realize it's a crap shoot half the time and a slippery slope.
 
We have three CA's in our company and I will be too soon enough and then I guess overnight I will no longer be a hack... ?!??! Amazing how that works...
 

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