15% ethanol destroys 2 cycle.... good read.

[Denis Gionet]

I just added the local Esso station to the list of E-Free stations in the link above. Thanks for that link, it'll help many of us for sure.

I've been reflecting. I use E-10 in my old mower and 2-stroke quad, and now we just picked up an older sled ('90 Cheyenne 503). I've been using Premium E-Free in the saw from the get-go. I think anything now that's not a car or pickup, or gets filled from a gas can, will have premium E-free gas, as a precaution. I don't feel like rebuilding every small engine I own, just for the sake of 10 cents/liter.

 

[Denis Gionet]

Here's the actual study:
http://www.nrel.gov/docs/fy12osti/52909.pdf

... And I just read the 9.9hp test results from this study, along with the teardown analysis. Definitely worth reading !!!!

 

[ch woodchuck]

Morning lads!Out in the boonies,and the nearest non E 10 is a 4hr rountrip....My power pole saw,husq gas hedger string trimmer and my trusty 246 all run on 10.Had a few problems when 10 came out.Alocohol is a solvent..naturally it dissolved all the yrs of accumulated crud and sent it through the system.Replaced gas lines,filters,and did carb kits.Since then,No probs.
Anyways I decided to make my own gas minus 10...(google remove alcohol from gas)Real simple.I make small batches 2.5 gals,enough for about a week.I use 93..Understanding that alchohol is an octane booster(2.5 points?)Meaning 93-2.5 is about 90.5.The only problem is what to do with the sludge???Can I tell the difference...no.Does it make a diiference?Better safe than sorry.


PS If this post is in the wrong place the admin could move it....cheers

 

[Denis Gionet]

I was just thinking a couple of weeks ago, about the quad having a torn intake boot this summer. It was split at the bottom, and obviously had a weird feel to the rubber. Anyway, I had just realized that the e-fuel might have been the culprit. I've since found a source of e-free regular 87 & premium 91 octane in town, and switched out all mix & straight e-fuel. (the Ford runs nice on 50:1 :msp_tongue: )

The carb boot/flange is NLA and I was lucky to find a new one at a sled/quad scrapyard that also picks up old inventory. I had given up on the bike at that point.

 

[indiansprings]

Since I've started working in a shop I see the effects of ethanol everyday. Since Poulan and the cheap poulan's in Husky colors use fuel line maybe one grade above vinyl, about 90% of their saws,trimmers and blowers come in with the fuel lines dissolved, fuel filter at the bottom unattached and the carby sucked full of crap. We test fuel out of every piece of equipment that comes in, it is unbelievable, most is 10%, we have seen as high as almost 15% ethanol, most of the time you see the alcohol a fine layer of water and then the mix. It is the cause of about 85% of the problems we see, carb kits and fuel lines are just a routine replacement in saws that have fuel left sitting in them.
We write on the ticket "Use 91 Oct or higher fuel, preferably non-ethanol with Ultra at 50:1 (Ultra has a ethanol stabilizer built in) Do not let gas sit in your saw longer than 3 months or keep your 2 cycle mix longer than 3 months or damage could occur to your fuel line and carb diaphrams". We direct customers to two stations in the area that sell 91 oct non ethanol and also push Marine Stabil.
It's unbelievable some of the rancid, scumy gas we poor out of some saws, some smell so bad we have to open the roll up doors to air the place out, looks like pond scum alage heavy water, some looks like urine. We like to show owners their gas if we can in the tester.

 

[Boogieman142]

most of the time you see the alcohol a fine layer of water and then the mix.

The water is suspended in the alcohol, how do you see a layer of it?

 

[TreeGuyHR]

They didn't mention adjusting the injection systems or carburetor for increased fuel flow. Alcohol burning requires larger jets (more fuel flow), many people do not realize this and try running engines with "gas" sized jets.

Restricted fuel flow results in a lean air/fuel mixture resulting in over heated, damaged engines. A person can cause the same damage by running standard gas at too lean of a air fuel ratio.

Small engines like chainsaws can handle more ethanol but need carburetors adjusted accordingly. Alcohol is corrosive to older rubber fuel lines and other components. It is wise to drain a saws fuel tank for storage and remove carburetor gas by idling the saw until it quits.

A few years ago there was a saw modified to run E85. The person who did the work reported the saw ran good but had short amount of run time. To burn E85 requires nearly doubling the fuel flow into the engine. Resulting in a tank lasting about half the normal run time.

A correct functioning engine is all about tuning the correct air/fuel ratio.

What you are saying may be excellent advice -- I am no expert on small engines. I am good at paying saw shops to replace carburetors!

So far I have replaced three on my to MS200Ts, and I just found out that the piston on my 084 has some scoring.
Starting about 2 years ago, I only make saw mix with Stihl 2-cycle oil and non-ethanol premium; I brew it up 5 gal at a time and it gets used up in about two weeks. I dispense it into smaller cans to reduce air (and moisture in our wet OR winters) being in contact with the mix.

Anything else I can do?

 

[ch woodchuck]

what I do...3gal...93..E-10.....add one gal water....have a beer,come back later.Doesn't take long. the bottom is the water/alky..Alky is an octane booster..2.5 points 93-2.5=90.5 octane straight gas.This is the low budget method.This is the 3rd batch,all equipment is running good.

View attachment 263270View attachment 263271

 

[BlackLocust]

what I do...3gal...93..E-10.....add one gal water....have a beer,come back later.Doesn't take long. the bottom is the water/alky..Alky is an octane booster..2.5 points 93-2.5=90.5 octane straight gas.This is the low budget method.This is the 3rd batch,all equipment is running good.

View attachment 263270View attachment 263271

What are the other options you've found. Anything economical out of a pail?