3-D Printing and Spencer Tape Gears

[Metals406]

opcorn:

 

[brokenbudget]

i'm not familiar with these. is there any lube in there for the gears?

 

[LegDeLimber]

Has anyone tried making an intake manifold or air filter housing yet?
I've wondered how much demand/market there might be for it from the hard core chainsaw crowd.
perhaps some slight customization for preferred filters with certain saws,
in options that the manufacturers didn't offer.
but the smoothing will likely be a big matter for any exposed covers
and sealing surfaces for filters and manifolds.

I guess I should look around for a "hackerspace" and see what tools they have and can do.

 

[madhatte]

what are the id/od and height of the part you'd need? Is there a shoulder or any steps etc?

Looks like I need to take and post pics. I'll try to remember to do that when I get to work tomorrow.

As for saw parts -- there are any number of things I think would be well-served by 3D-printed repros. A good place to start would be covers and things like that which don't hold big temperatures or pressures. Intake manifolds are a great idea too. I bet there are lots of NLA parts which could be fabbed in plastic.

 

[fulltrack]

Looks like I need to take and post pics. I'll try to remember to do that when I get to work tomorrow.

As for saw parts -- there are any number of things I think would be well-served by 3D-printed repros. A good place to start would be covers and things like that which don't hold big temperatures or pressures. Intake manifolds are a great idea too. I bet there are lots of NLA parts which could be fabbed in plastic.

not only fab'd in plastic, but bucks for casting can be made. Then you can use a forge to make alum pieces if desired. A method for modeling I've been playing with a bit is taking pictures and converting them into a point cloud, which can in turn be converted to a 3d model. One real strength of 3d printing is rapid proto-typing. Fitment can be tested for pennies, once you have a model.

 

[madhatte]

Tell me more about this picture --> point cloud --> model process. I have another, unrelated idea which might work that way.

 

[Eccentric]

Looks like I need to take and post pics. I'll try to remember to do that when I get to work tomorrow.

As for saw parts -- there are any number of things I think would be well-served by 3D-printed repros. A good place to start would be covers and things like that which don't hold big temperatures or pressures. Intake manifolds are a great idea too. I bet there are lots of NLA parts which could be fabbed in plastic.

Tell me more about this picture --> point cloud --> model process. I have another, unrelated idea which might work that way.

Nate my friend I'm glad to see that you're continuing on with your forward thinking.

 

[madhatte]

Nate my friend I'm glad to see that you're continuing on with your forward thinking.

Heh. You know the alternative...

 

[fulltrack]

Tell me more about this picture --> point cloud --> model process. I have another, unrelated idea which might work that way.

Point coulds describe a 3 dimensional coordinate system. Bascailly, you can describe an object in 3 dimensions by generating a mesh of points in x,y and z coordinates. The cloud mesh can be turned into a 3d model and the resolution depends on the number of points in your cloud/object. 3d scanners do this for you. If you don't have a 3d scanner, there are some services online that will mesh together photos of an object to give you a point clound. Once you have the cloud, you can use another software, like blender to generate the model ( fill in the gaps between the points or 'make object manifold' ). Now you have something comsuable by the software that generates gcode for printers or other CAM/CNC processes.

You can actually have some success using a camera from an ####, but the resolution isn't amazing. For a simple part, I think it would work well.

Guess I should call myself 'the other' Nate?

 

[madhatte]

Guess I should call myself 'the other' Nate?

Or maybe "the other, other" Nate, since Metals406 and I have already made arrangements to keep out Nateness in order... geeze, where the hell else are there so many Nates in one place?


So: pictures taken. Here we go.

This is the part I think is most necessary to produce a better version of. This one is new. I wish I'd thought to throw a ruler in there for scale, but, oh well.

Here's what it inevitably ends up looking like:

Here's how it works:

and what drives it:

 

[madhatte]

What happens is that the big rewind spring drives the main shaft to spool the tape in. If it loses a single tooth, like this:

the resulting impact eats the teeth off of the middle gear, and the tape is done for the day.

Occasionally, I'll see unusual wear on the driven gear on the spool

but that's far from normal.

So -- back to the middle gear. This is the guy I want to get a 3-D printed replacement made for:

It is definitely the weak spot in the design. It is at the heart of nearly 100% of all failures I've seen in these tapes. An improved gear would be a very good thing to have.

 

[LegDeLimber]

There were a couple of 3-D printing stories on Hackaday yesterday.
Hope this linkage doesn't get me a trip to bandcamp.

Just be advised that their comments section is NOT filtered for the type of language
that Arboristsite is filtered for, so watch out if you're web surfing from work.

3D printed hand-cranked digital computer

and this story had some links that lead to powdered metal printing.
An interview with Shapeways
The metal parts were knick-knacks and not structural or working type items
didn't read everything (too much unidentified & blocked J'script in page)
so not sure if the process was suitable for working parts.

 

[madhatte]

You're in Charlotte? That's where my buddy Drew lives, and he's the one who sort of got me started investigating this project. He's the guy who organized the Maker Faires there. It's not unlikely that you've crossed paths.

EDIT: I think he actually lives in the Raleigh/Durham/Chapel Hill area now. I should know this stuff. Forgive.

 

[LegDeLimber]

Actually I'm just living vicariously through web sites on this stuff
Budget issues sort of demand it like that now.
almost all of the "brick & mortar" places to scrounge and talk
have gone away.
Slayton's was about last one around here before they sold the buisness
A Totally changed place by new owners and market demands.

Seems to be a new bit of life breathing into things with the 3-D printers now
even getting some air-time on NPR about them.
Yeah, the guys that did the [latest]gun and posted the files
sorta made a hot topic out of printing.
...wondering how it will affect upcoming rulings, reckon just have to watch & see.

 

[imagineero]

I know it's probably not as much fun and all,
but have you tried asking the engineer you spoke to at spence who produced the old stamped metal versions? Chances are, they've still got the tooling, and could pump out a short run quickly and cheaply. Being OEM, you know they'd work too.

Shaun

 

[fulltrack]

It is definitely the weak spot in the design. It is at the heart of nearly 100% of all failures I've seen in these tapes. An improved gear would be a very good thing to have.

I don't think you'd have any problem with that gear - right off the printer. It could produce a resolution that would be adiquet I think. Stength, I don't know, but it has to be worth a shot.

If you get a model or measurements for the the both gears let me know.

edit, I guess the id and height is improtant too

other, other nate

 

[madhatte]

I know it's probably not as much fun and all,
but have you tried asking the engineer you spoke to at spence who produced the old stamped metal versions? Chances are, they've still got the tooling, and could pump out a short run quickly and cheaply. Being OEM, you know they'd work too.

Dude was cagey as hell about "before". It's a completely different company from the old Spencer. I get the impression that it would be a "blood from a stone" proposition to get more information from them than I already have.

If you get a model or measurements for the the both gears let me know.

edit, I guess the id and height is improtant too

I'll make the files available as soon as I get them made. My hope is that other folks will follow suit with this upgrade. I don't want to sell 'em; I already have a day job. I just want 'em to be available.

 

[madhatte]

UPDATE: I have two sources able to print gears; now it's up to me to provide the files, and I am working on it. Turns out that the GIS and CAD software I'm used to are a little different than the software they are using today for 3-D printing. No matter -- it's just a matter of learning.

New idea.

Silvey is no longer manufacturing their larger devices, grinders and such, because of the expense of castings. The motors are pretty standard, or can be adapted from standard parts. The clamps and guides and stands and such can be made from billets or cut from regular stock. What if the castings were 3-D printed from nylon or something similarly dimensionally-stable? We could almost piece a Razur-Sharp together from drawings that way. It would never be a big seller, but it might keep a few chains sharp.

Once I get the Spencer gears made, I may start asking around for Silvey carcasses to work from. This will be a big project and will take awhile to be finished, if it ever is. No promises. I have a 510 at work I can start with for proof-of-concept. If I can figure out how to build an equivalent machine for less than an Oregon 511 I might just have something to pass on. I am not interested in selling anything or making a business out of this. I just want quality tools.

 

[northmanlogging]

there are several casting shops around here, making a mold is easy, the machining is easier, the hard part is getting the crack heads pouring the metal to do it in a consistent way, and without a bunch of crud in it. Also with modern cnc machines casting is a nearly forgotten method, it may be cheaper in the long run to machine "silvey" grinders and stuff out of bar stock, then to bother with castings or the 3-d printing, although there seems to be lots of interest in the 3-d printing, and I don't have a clue as to how much it costs.

 

[madhatte]

I don't have a clue as to how much it costs.

Practically nothing, which is why 3-D printing is so attractive. You can create almost anything within the limitations of the material being printed, and it only costs the material itself.