661 Oil Test 32:1 vs 40:1 vs 50:1 ?

[redbull660]

running right amount of oil

obviously not running enough oil

 

[HuskStihl]

Milling, or stumping sumptin' big on a hot, still day feels like sitting in the garage with the car running. I prefer to not have known neurotoxins bouncing off the stump and into my lungs

 

[porsche965]

A good friend of mine died of lung cancer two years ago at age 43. I was by his bedside hours before he passed. He did not smoke and was a HVAC guy, would laugh when the gauges came off the air conditioners and the hiss and plume of white gas went up. I told him that might not be too good for him. Tempting fate is foolish.

Watching him gasp for each breath tends to make you a little more concerned about what is in the air you breathe.

He was a real strong guy until that hit him. He lasted one year.

 

[Stihl working hard]

A good friend of mine died of lung cancer two years ago at age 43. I was by his bedside hours before he passed. He did not smoke and was a HVAC guy, would laugh when the gauges came off the air conditioners and the hiss and plume of white gas went up. I told him that might not be too good for him. Tempting fate is foolish.

Watching him gasp for each breath tends to make you a little more concerned about what is in the air you breathe.

He was a real strong guy until that hit him. He lasted one year.

Terribly sorry to hear about your friend

 

[KenJax Tree]

HP2 doesn't have either of those things you listed so I think I'm good

What we breathe as soon as you step outside is killing us too.

 

[KenJax Tree]

You'll find something wrong so it doesn't really matter. But the MSDS is out there online.

 

[Trx250r180]

Mobil 1 Racing 2T

Viscosity (ASTM D445)


cSt @ 40 ºC

83

cSt @ 100 ºC

12.7

Viscosity Index

154

Sulfated Ash, wt% (ASTM D874)

0.15

Pour Point, ºC (ASTM D97)

-42

Flash Point, ºC (ASTM D92)

100
Mobil 1 Racing 2T is recommended for lubrication of two-stroke engines used in the highest performance motorcycles, snowmobiles and lean oil/fuel ratio chain saws. It is ideal for applications where API TC or JASO FD performance standards are recommended. The product helps to provide outstanding performance even in some of the harshest operating conditions.

Mobil 1 Racing 2T combines high performance synthetic baseoils with an advanced additive technology to help provide outstanding engine cleanliness in the piston and exhaust valve areas, excellent wear protection and lubricity at high temperatures and virtually eliminate smoke production. This lubricant is engineered to outperform even under some of the severest operating conditions. Key features and potential benefits include:

Features

Advantages and Potential Benefits

Outstanding wear protection

Helps to extend life for critical engine parts

Exceptional lubricity properties

Helps to protect against pre-mature wear and engine seizing

Excellent thermal and oxidation stability

Exceptional engine cleaning power helping to result in extended spark plug and valve life, reduced ring sticking, piston tightening and elimination of pre-ignition problems

Excellent corrosion protection properties

Long engine life

Eliminates pre-ignition

Helps to extend piston life

Smoke-free exhaust

Outstanding emissions control


Where do i find the pib in this stuff ?

 

[NWCoaster]

read somewhere that PIB isn't the greatest stuff to be breathing in. Couldn't remember where so i'm gogglin "Polyisobutylene health" ie. PIB (used in k2 & super m)

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=3&ved=0CCsQFjACahUKEwiaksjRluLGAhWCdD4KHX2vDhE&url=https://www.oronite.com/pdfs/polyisobutylene_productstewardshipsummary.pdf&ei=bfaoVdqnJYLp-QH93rqIAQ&usg=AFQjCNE1CayDHAmSz_PqDNQj8VUW1HzqSw&sig2=HsJMhBx8UOPO6B1Q37JwHg&cad=rja



page 3

health info

so it sounds like the best way to get systemic toxicity is to breathe in the fumes of products containing PIB based additives

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
See below... so looks like you are fcked but don't know it til 24-72hrs later LOL

PIB -

http://toxnet.nlm.nih.gov/cgi-bin/sis/search/a?dbs+hsdb:@term+@DOCNO+1260

0.4.3 INHALATION EXPOSURE
A) DECONTAMINATION -
1) INHALATION: Move patient to fresh air. Monitor for
respiratory distress. If cough or difficulty breathing
develops, evaluate for respiratory tract irritation,
bronchitis, or pneumonitis. Administer oxygen and
assist ventilation as required. Treat bronchospasm with
an inhaled beta2-adrenergic agonist. Consider systemic
corticosteroids in patients with significant
bronchospasm.
B) IRRITATION -
1) Respiratory tract irritation, if severe, can progress
to pulmonary edema which may be delayed in onset up to
24 to 72 hours after exposure in some cases.
C) ACUTE LUNG INJURY -
1) ACUTE LUNG INJURY: Maintain ventilation and oxygenation
and evaluate with frequent arterial blood gases and/or
pulse oximetry monitoring. Early use of PEEP and
mechanical ventilation may be needed.
D) BRONCHOSPASM -
1) If bronchospasm and wheezing occur, consider treatment
with inhaled sympathomimetic agents.
E) OBSERVATION CRITERIA -
1) Carefully observe patients with inhalation exposure for
the development of any systemic signs or symptoms and
administer symptomatic treatment as necessary.
2) Patients symptomatic following exposure should be
observed in a controlled setting until all signs and
symptoms have fully resolved.

************************************************************************
************************************************************************

I see motul 800 has warning about allergic reactions regarding Calcium sulfonate

so gogglin "Calcium Sulfonate Health" i came up with...

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=9&ved=0CE0QFjAIahUKEwiW-YyemuLGAhWGcz4KHcRiDxc&url=https://www.oronite.com/pdfs/Sulfonates_fnWeb.pdf&ei=M_qoVdaTGobn-QHExb24AQ&usg=AFQjCNGUfa0JJ8uL3PbO1VQkZwyoj-M04w&sig2=Wt9JdeZ2qEuAIzttO48RPg&cad=rja

health info bottom page 2

looks 10x better than what is said about PIB. I mean none of this sh*t is good for you. It's just a question of if X is THAT much worse for you than Y.

Thanks for the link to the article Redbull. I read the whole thing. Being a Hazmat technician, I get a lot of practice deciphering key words and phrases in MSDS's. Here is a quote from the publication on Acute health effects:

Studies of PIB-based fuel additives by the dermal and oral routes


of exposure indicate that these substances are relatively low in

acute toxicity. They may cause respiratory irritation if inhaled.

Signs of systemic toxicity occur only at very high dose levels that

are much greater than human exposure that could result through

use of products containing PIB-based additives.


So what they are saying in general is that you would have to sit in a room dripping with the vapor in the air for an extended period of time to have significant ACUTE health effects.
Not what is EVER going to happen in the real world unless you are attempting to kill yourself with PIB.... Lol. You would get the same kind of respiratory distress from just about any chemical at that level ( wd-40, brake fluid, jack daniels, astroglide, etc.) The other constituents being formed in the exhaust of a 2 stroke engine have a much greater potential for acute side effects than the PIB if you think about it ( Sulfur, Carbon Monoxide, aerosolized metals, etc.)
Definitely nothing to be concerned about this additive considering what else is in the exhaust.... try to work in a manner that reduces exposure to 2 stroke exhaust whenever possible.

 

[redbull660]

Thanks for the link to the article Redbull. I read the whole thing. Being a Hazmat technician, I get a lot of practice deciphering key words and phrases in MSDS's. Here is a quote from the publication on Acute health effects:

Studies of PIB-based fuel additives by the dermal and oral routes


of exposure indicate that these substances are relatively low in

acute toxicity. They may cause respiratory irritation if inhaled.

Signs of systemic toxicity occur only at very high dose levels that

are much greater than human exposure that could result through

use of products containing PIB-based additives.


So what they are saying in general is that you would have to sit in a room dripping with the vapor in the air for an extended period of time to have significant ACUTE health effects.
Not what is EVER going to happen in the real world unless you are attempting to kill yourself with PIB.... Lol. You would get the same kind of respiratory distress from just about any chemical at that level ( wd-40, brake fluid, jack daniels, astroglide, etc.) The other constituents being formed in the exhaust of a 2 stroke engine have a much greater potential for acute side effects than the PIB if you think about it ( Sulfur, Carbon Monoxide, aerosolized metals, etc.)
Definitely nothing to be concerned about this additive considering what else is in the exhaust.... try to work in a manner that reduces exposure to 2 stroke exhaust whenever possible.

I like expert opinion. Thanks!

Does anything in any of these oils we've been talking about, stand out as bad enough to cause for elimination of said oil out of the race?

 

[porsche965]

FWIW and should be common practice if at all possible is to position one's self with the wind to your benefit carrying away the exhaust. Easier said than done at times but it is what I do. Where I have trouble is down low behind a Goony the last 10" of wood. Heck, I'll even grab a big gulp of air and duck back down to finish the cut before breathing again. Thank goodness for fast saws.

 

[NWCoaster]

I like expert opinion. Thanks! Does any thing in any of these oils we've been talking about stand out as bad enough to eliminate said oil the race?

To tell you the truth, you would have to look through every last chemical that is in the additive/oil and all the components in that particular blend of gasoline. Would be very time consuming trying to verify all that info. From working in a refinery/refineries and being an Industrial firefighter/hazmat tech for more than 20 years, I can honestly tell you none of it is GOOD for you. Just the gasoline alone when you are filling up the fuel can..... Benzine is one of the worst chemicals that you can be exposed to, yet we do it all the time when filling up the car.... that sweet smell in the air is one of the worst carcinogens known. Our allowable time weighted average for exposure over an 8 hour work period usd to be 1 ppm ( Part per million). I think it has been changed to "0" now. Not good stuff.
The other one I see on here is people using leaded gasoline. I know its good stuff , but oh boy.... using that in an area with restricted ventilation for long periods of time.....It sounds corny, but I am actually concerned for the people using it - the amount of lead they are breathing in is a serious risk to their health.
In the end when it comes down to chemicals and acute and chronic health risks and potential for damage, dosage is the most important factor ( Mg/Kg) and then exposure over time. Some chemicals produce acute effects with no chronic issues, some no acute issues but with serious chronic potential ( Mutagens, carcinogens) like benzene.
The most practical way to reduce risk from the exhaust is through engineering controls ( Ventilation , isolation, wind at your back...L0l) or secondarily, PPE. I don't foresee any of you using a half face respirator when using a chainsaw. The gist of it is , think about what you are doing before you start and try to arrange how you are working when possible to reduce the amount of exposure to the exhaust while working with a chainsaw..... trying to isolate any one additive or chemical is pretty much a moot point.... all of the exhaust is harmful to your body in one shape or form. Take care of yourselves guys, your body will thank you. ( As a side not, I think on average refinery workers live ten years shorter than the average for all fields of work) We have had 7 fatalities in the refinery I work in since I have been there over 21 years. As a firefighter, seeing the after effects up close of what happens to your co-workers when things go really bad is an eye opener on the possible effects of working in an industrial environment. I try to protect myself from short and long term risks as much as possible on an everyday basis..... sometimes its just a little prethought that makes the difference, Mark.

 

[NWCoaster]

FWIW and should be common practice if at all possible is to position one's self with the wind to your benefit carrying away the exhaust. Easier said than done at times but it is what I do. Where I have trouble is down low behind a Goony the last 10" of wood. Heck, I'll even grab a big gulp of air and duck back down to finish the cut before breathing again. Thank goodness for fast saws.

This

 

[Chainsaw Jim]

Has anyone used the shindaiwa red armor brand? It is rated FD, I believe a higher rating than Stihl oil. The first thing I noticed when I used it was the pleasant odor left behind. Not to be a sissy about stinky things. lol, but some of those other brands are pretty raunchy.
I haven't noticed any carbon build up problems. There is always a tad bit of clean oil on the piston sides when I dismantle to inspect after a few tanks of mix. I run 50:1 and with the amount oil residue left behind after a good running, I'm interested in possibly donating a used cup and jug to the name of chainsaw science by testing 55 or 60:1. It'll either be a quick test, or who knows how long of a test. As we all know the ratio has been getting lower as the quality of oil has improved. Back in the day it was about 16:1 with sae 30, now it's 50:1 with almost everything current.

 

[KenJax Tree]

My throat burns many days from fumes

 

[hardpan]

Later version of the D series Jakewells but a good one too and looks to be in nice shape . The F series are decent machines too , Toro bought them out a bit later and things went down hill .
The brick tops I run are from the later 60's into the 70's although the earlier C series was a great machine too . LB did have some issues with the SS ignition modules and some of the plastic carbs were a pain .

I bought mine about 1979 new. It is all green, black plastic grill in the center of the top housing above the flywheel, plastic carb, steel deck, called the "utility" model as I recall. The absolute best engine I have ever owned. I have done nothing but clean the muffler once in all this time and it has gone places no push mower should ever go. I have replaced the deck and wheels though. Can you tell me the correct name for it and where to find parts? I have a pin hole in the primer bulb. Oh, and the only oil I have ever used in it is Lawn Boy 32:1. I may soon change to the same mix I use in all my other 2-strokes, currently Maxima K2 32:1. One more thing, until a year ago my Lawn Boy has always ran fine on crap, stale, pump gas with ethanol and no failed rubber and plastic parts. Now I mix with non ethanol gas and it possibly runs a little better. I wonder why these high dollar chainsaw fuel lines and carbs drop like flies when fed ethanol.

 

[hardpan]

My throat burns many days from fumes

You are one of the high volume users that contribute most to this thread. Thanks. The part timers like me don't get enough exposure to tell the difference. Personally I couldn't care less what the exhaust smells like. You want to hear something crazy. When I was a kid I liked standing behind a car when it was idling because that exhaust smelled so good. There was no ethanol in that gas, but plenty of lead. Hmmm, maybe that is why I don't notice the fumes so much today. LOL

 

[KenJax Tree]

You are one of the high volume users that contribute most to this thread. Thanks. The part timers like me don't get enough exposure to tell the difference. Personally I couldn't care less what the exhaust smells like. You want to hear something crazy. When I was a kid I liked standing behind a car when it was idling because that exhaust smelled so good. There was no ethanol in that gas, but plenty of lead. Hmmm, maybe that is why I don't notice the fumes so much today. LOL

I'm far from an oil expert though[emoji2]

 

[hardpan]

You are a pretty heavy user of 2-strokes, make honest observations and looking for a better product (oil) so I listen. There are more in milling, logging, etc. And of course the saw builders who are most familiar with the guts of the mysterious 2-strokes

 

[quotejso2]

Has anyone used the shindaiwa red armor brand? It is rated FD, I believe a higher rating than Stihl oil. The first thing I noticed when I used it was the pleasant odor left behind. Not to be a sissy about stinky things. lol, but some of those other brands are pretty raunchy.
I haven't noticed any carbon build up problems. There is always a tad bit of clean oil on the piston sides when I dismantle to inspect after a few tanks of mix. I run 50:1 and with the amount oil residue left behind after a good running, I'm interested in possibly donating a used cup and jug to the name of chainsaw science by testing 55 or 60:1. It'll either be a quick test, or who knows how long of a test. As we all know the ratio has been getting lower as the quality of oil has improved. Back in the day it was about 16:1 with sae 30, now it's 50:1 with almost everything current.

That's what I use seems to do the trick but I'm a light user.

 

[Big_Wood]

has anyone tried the royal purple oil? they make a premix one i used a quart of a couple weeks ago but i was to in the work to do any inspections before i switched back to lucas. i don't think the saws noticed a difference though might have to pick up another bottle next time i'm in the city.